[extanker59]

Good for you Mark. Congrats. Very nice of Haas to do that.

[haastec]

I would be ticked to buy such an expensive machine that had been artificially crippled.

I would disagree that the machine was artifically crippled. The HSM is an option for a reason; some need it and some do not.

Congrats to you Mark for getting your issue solved and Cheers:cheers: to Haas factory for stepping up and providing the option at no cost.

It's always nice to hear about good customer support!

[MarkSerbu]

On the other hand, this machine is an incredible value. I assume that's partially because they make as options the "premium" features that not everyone needs. Hell, I didn't figure out that I "needed' HSM until yesterday, and I've had the machine over 2 years! I priced out an equivalent Mazak before I bought my Haas and it was going be over $30,000 more! I'm glad that I have a machine that does everything I want for such a good price, and I don't begrudge Haas for making money where they can. They could have easily have charged $10,000 more for this machine and still have happy customers.

I would be ticked to buy such an expensive machine that had been artificially crippled.

[Machineit]

Everyone can understand the value relationship with hardware. Oh, you want two extra clips with that Glock 9mm, that will be another $50.00. No problem.

But, with software it is more difficult to understand. Different levels of features cost different amounts. It's frustrating to know that they are already there and just need to be turned on. That is why software piracy is so prevalent.

I run Bob-Cad software and every feature they have is on my dongle, but I can only access/use what I have paid for. And, they nickle and dime you to death. Or, I should say $100.00 and $1,000.00 you to death.

I recently had to purchase the Predator editing from them, just because their CAM software was making so many errors that I had to go into the program to fix them all. But, they can't fix their CAM software!

I am curious though, when was the HSM made available and in what models?

Thanks----Mike

[JohnJW]

I would be ticked to buy such an expensive machine that had been artificially crippled.

I know how you feel. If the hardware and software already reside on the machine, the manufacturing cost is already factored in and I don't buy the argument that the "extra" cost is to recoup the R&D cost. The machine can go through its entire life without having those extra features turned on.

However, that is industry wide practice. Most everyone does it. I thought the old Haas 16mb option was expensive, until I asked about the cost memory in a Fanuc controller. I don't like the nickle and dime approach, but again, that seems to be industry wide practice.

At least, Haas is fairly transparent and upfront about their prices, options, specs, and manuals. That's already better than most if not all other machine tool builders out there.

The bottom line is you have to do your homework and do the comparison yourself. Add up all the options you think should be standard and see how much comparable machines will cost from the various machine tool builders. I have to admit that after seeing the prices from the various builders, some of what I thought should be standard, became optional.

[haastec]

Last time I checked, I didn't have every channel lineup on my DirecTV either, or every programming option on my smart phone.

It's just business people; those who want the option pay for it. If you don't need the option, then you don't have to.

If Haas included every option under the sun, there would still be something else to complain about!

[WallyL7]

Every HFO salesman is aware of the strengths of each machine.

Ken, no offense, but that is a good one. We had a (sales)guy here in the norcal region that didn't know the travels of a VF-3!!!!!!!!(chair)

I would be ticked to buy such an expensive machine that had been artificially crippled.

Chimp - they all do that (upsell a HSM option - mori, mazak, haas, etc, etc...)

I priced out an equivalent Mazak before I bought my Haas and it was going be over $30,000 more!

Ummm...There is no haas that has an "equivalent" Mazak. Sorry, there just isn't. Mazak is on a whole different playing field...Not that I don't like my haas, mind you.

[SBC Cycle]

I do surfacing both on the vf2ss and a fadal 4020 ( running g8)
I have run programs exactly the same and the vf2ss will smoke the fadal in surfacing part for part.
My parts typically run 11-13 tools so there is a tool change differenc for sure.
but if I am doing the same cavity on both machines at the same feed rate the haas will actually run a few seconds faster than the fadal.
When I first got the machine its was 20-30 times slower ( no kidding) once we got the parameters figured out it was fast.
I dont know if these parameters have to do with HIGHspeed machining or not, as I have that option, but what the did was make it feed in the corners at the same speed rather than slowing up. ( just like G8 does on a fadal).

Delw

To get the surfacing speed I want on my VFs is as simple as typing in G8 on the Fadal.

I have a 2000 Fadal XT-15 that blows away my 2009 Haas VF4-SS when 3D machining. And that's with G8 off! But without a touch probe or tool setter, and with a glacially slow 21-tool turret, it doesn't get much use anymore!

You know, I'd really love to see my 3D machining problem done on a Haas with HSM. Is there anyone within 100 miles of Tampa, Florida that has HSM turned on who'd let me run my part? I'll bring a thumb drive, 1/4" ball end mill, a block of aluminum and some beer! And a few Serbu Firearms, Inc. T-shirts! Anyone?

I'm losing 3-5 minutes on average for a family of 440C parts that I've been running on the Haas lately. It's not doing me any favors on tool life either.

I would be ticked to buy such an expensive machine that had been artificially crippled.

We don't have a great deal of money in em but, yeah, I do feel like it's crippled.

• Full look-ahead up to 80 blocks

Sorta implies that without a code, you're not getting the look ahead the machine is capable of. So $4600 to achieve 35 IPM surfacing? Eh, is what it is I guess.

[SBC Cycle]

Last time I checked, I didn't have every channel lineup on my DirecTV either, or every programming option on my smart phone.

It's just business people; those who want the option pay for it. If you don't need the option, then you don't have to.

If Haas included every option under the sun, there would still be something else to complain about!

This is so far my ONLY complaint about the Haas after 3 months of hard use. I love em and I've bought my last Fadal.

Probing upgrade - I get that, extra hardware, extra programming
4th axis - Ditto.
TSC - and again

HSM? I have a hard time believing that I haven't already paid a little extra for that feature to be present in every single Haas that comes out of the factory. Ballscrew system, processor speed, beefier casting to handle rapid axis reversals... you get it.

Don't get me wrong, we'll be buying it (chair) and we will buy another Haas in the future guaranteed.

[Delw]

My opinion is anymore all machines should come with HSM wether the manufacturer adds it to the price or gives it away. its kinda like a g83 cycle its used everyday.
HSM for the last 6 years has been a common place MAINLY cause people are going digital on all the prints(solids/surfaces) and not making blue prints anymore. and programmers dont really have to program anymore, just click on the surface and cut.

[MarkSerbu]

Yeah, I'd have to agree about the salesmen. Just because the guys have attended training doesn't mean they've retained it! When I bought my Fadal back in 2001 I was very close to buying a VF-2 instead. I selected the Fadal for other reasons, but the salesman (kid, actually) didn't even know 20% of what was in the sales brochure. I'm no salesman but I think that if I were I'd want to at least feel like I'd EARNED my commissions. Hmmmm....maybe that's why I'm an engineer. ;-)

Point taken on the Mazak vs. Haas. I guess I should have said "equivalent features". I loved my Mazak (when it was running), but got tired of paying huge repair bills. With my Haas I have everything I need in the machine, it has yet to break, and I kept my money in the U.S.A. when I bought it!

Ken, no offense, but that is a good one. We had a (sales)guy here in the norcal region that didn't know the travels of a VF-3!!!!!!!!(chair)



Ummm...There is no haas that has an "equivalent" Mazak. Sorry, there just isn't. Mazak is on a whole different playing field...Not that I don't like my haas, mind you.

[Ydna]

I don't have much qualm with the HSM option but I do really wish it came with the Haas "superspeed" machines out of the box. I mean they are supposed to be faster and such. The price also went up in the past few years...yeesh

People rip on Haas for nickle-and-diming the options but it really is present with all manufacturers. Fanuc is the ABSOLUTE WORST out there...not only do you need to pay them for added hardware, but you then have to pay for added software too. And it'll probably come on a floppy disk. Yes, you must pay for a software upgrade when you decide to buy a STACKLIGHT for your Fanuc machine. hah