[tjones]

Guess I had to start a new thread now. Would still like to see any Bobcad examples.

Sorry Jon. Just asking if you have anything you can post. Not that everything done can be. As I stated in the other thread I have to get permission to post things on our sight. Same situation and many of our companies have non-disclosure agreements too. However I would still like to see anything being done with Bobcad even if it is simple or just a test for functon.

Thanks to Ken for many of his posts. I like those type of jobs. I know companies that do things like mylar engraving and pool stick enlays. Gun stocks, pistol grips, sheet layouts for laser and water jets, molds, dies, fixtures, machine componites, and more. I have even done work off the company clock for these people by making the gcode for them and they pay me using paypal. (these are things I can not post either :frown: )

When I see parts like these I get ideals on how to do jobs I work on. Most things I do are solids and they are job related. However my son is designing a mace (weapon) for his collection. He just wants a cool design of his own. I have permission to make the part as long as I pay for any material and tooling when he gets the design I will post it.

[kenlambert]

all the parts I make are basicaly for me , this is just a hobby so I have no problem posting them. These are carb adapters for a Mac conversion gas engine everything is simple parts so far but it did take some time to learn sense I had never seen a cad program before I got v 19.

[jonbanquer]

Guess I had to start a new thread now. Would still like to see any Bobcad examples.

Sorry Jon. Just asking if you have anything you can post. Not that everything done can be. As I stated in the other thread I have to get permission to post things on our sight. Same situation and many of our companies have non-disclosure agreements too. However I would still like to see anything being done with Bobcad even if it is simple or just a test for functon.

Thanks to Ken for many of his posts. I like those type of jobs. I know companies that do things like mylar engraving and pool stick enlays. Gun stocks, pistol grips, sheet layouts for laser and water jets, molds, dies, fixtures, machine componites, and more. I have even done work off the company clock for these people by making the gcode for them and they pay me using paypal. (these are things I can not post either :frown: )

When I see parts like these I get ideals on how to do jobs I work on. Most things I do are solids and they are job related. However my son is designing a mace (weapon) for his collection. He just wants a cool design of his own. I have permission to make the part as long as I pay for any material and tooling when he gets the design I will post it.

"Sorry Jon. Just asking if you have anything you can post."

No reason to be sorry.

Given a better environment and more BobCADCAM users actually helping other users with best practice modeling and machining, like is being done by you and I on the official BobCADCAM Technical Forum with one poster, then I will indeed post some parts and designs that I have done. Not until then. There is a lot of work to do to change the way BobCADCAM is often perceived and how it is documented. A good start is what is happening on the official BobCADCAM Technical Support Forum now. Lets hope it is allowed to continue. I have my doubts. Despite this I know it's the right thing to do.

In my opinion a big change in mindset at BobCADCAM corporate needs to take place. I'm waiting to see if this happens.

I think your a big part of trying to make positive change happen. I think others could be as well. Nothing will happen if users don't work together for these badly needed changes. I believe we need to find more BobCADCAM users who truly understand what needs to occur and who really want it to occur.

jon

"I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." ... Jimmy Hoffa

[tjones]

Most users will never agree on everything but when most users agree on one thing it really hits big to a company. Many people will not understand the practical cost of changing years of work though. Advances cost when the company has to do it in one large leap. Also when they have to use third parties they must pay for the services or permission on every program sold to include the third party application.

Not too many companies will do things for free. Bobcad is using older code in the user interface that has not been changed to new designs for a long time. This is a major reason they have been able to keep cost low. Now they have new employees that have new ideals and are implementing new code. We saw a large part of this in version 20. This much change in one leap caused many problems and most of them have been adressed. Bobcad may not have everything yet that would make it compete with some other big companies but we still pay a 5th or less of the cost of some of the big companies.

However for some of the lower end companies that have started up in more recent years they have newer code that makes thing a lttle nicer but with a little more cost. For Bobcad to match them they most likely will have to increase the cost (it would shock me if they do not). Most users though can get Bobcad to do great things as it is now. It still suprises me to see the things being done. I like trying to find new ways to do things and Bobcad lets me do that. These are the reasons I thought most people would wish to keep it the way it is. But they are proving me wrong and Bobcad has been paying attention.

BTW....I would guess a 2 year span to change graphics and maybe more to change to lists. If they have aleady been working on some of these it would be less. If they use third parties then they could do it in a year easy. How many $300 sales does it take to pay for 6 people full time? That is how many people I have talked with myself. I don't know how many employees work for Bobcad. From several sources I have heard there are major changes already underway. I keep trying to trick a tech into slipping but its not been easy.

[jonbanquer]

"Bobcad is using older code in the user interface that has not been changed to new designs for a long time."

MasterCAM did the same thing... held on to their DOS user interface for too long and it has cost them dearly. A lot of people are unhappy with MasterCAM X but what choice did CNC Software really have other then to continue to slip back. If BobCADCAM doesn't move quickly to increase the speed at which programs can be cranked out by a machining job shop they will be in danger of becoming a hobby only CADCAM system.

There is some good progress in BobCADCAM. How Profile is done with it's all in one place Dialog Box is a big step in the right direction. Needs to happen with Pocketing and Drilling as well.

BobCADCAM has saved a lot of money over the years by holding back on development but the market has evolved with other low price solutions that have a far better UI's.

The solid component of BobCADCAM is really a third part kernel developed by Gary Crocker and his partner.

I see no way around the Open GL issue. You can't get a third party to develop this. BobCAD will have to do it themselves. If the API was opened up in BobCADCAM then I have no doubt that third parties could develop solutions. As an example Gibbs uses a ton of third party add-ins that greatly increase it's functionality and are included with Gibbs. Without this third party help, Gibbs would have a lot of issues that it doesn't have right now.

There really is no choice at this point other than to spend the money. If BobCAD doesn't you will see companies like OneCNC (who has no problem spending money and redoing their product on a frequent basis) go after more of the BobCADCAM user base.

HuFlungDung, WMS.... both were power BobCADCAM users who moved on... because they had no choice.

A lot of the stuff I'm suggesting would not require a major overhaul. The Layers pop up Dialog box, the status bar, Toby's idea for a CAM status bar.... all very do able. So is redoing the Pocketing UI.

BobCADCAM has never really gotten Windows right. I don't know if you ever used BobCAD DOS but it had an awesome UI. It was so good I didn't use the mouse most of the time. It's time for BobCADCAM to produce a much better Windows UI. I can live with it being done incrementally.

What BobCAD has always been good at is marketing... high pressure marketing. This only goes so far in a CADCAM market that is no longer expanding but rather shrinking. In a shrinking market you have to have very good value for the money and you have to be able to make your customers happy and keep them happy. As you saw in the Practical Machinist CNC forum lots of former BobCADCAM users are not happy. What they are is mad as hell. They have every right to be mad as hell.

Some how / some way it's time to make a change and start building a loyal user base who will not be satisfied with empty marketing promises. They will want proof. What better way to show proof then in small incremental steps with some of the stuff I'm suggesting ?

V20's Profile function shows me that someone is trying to get it right. With more of the same delivered incrementally a lot of users will be made happy. I'm one of them.

jon


"I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." ... Jimmy Hoffa

[mrwhittle]

<I almost always Blank out objects by Layer. When I hit the Blank out icon I would like to be able to skip the dialog box that asks whether you want to Blank out by Single, Chain, Region, Color, All. One way to facilitate this would be to create an Environmental Default setting that sets Blank by Layer to the default choice for Blanking objects.>

<The Layers pop up Dialog box>

Jon,
I don't understand what you're talking about on the layer situation. If I'm working on a layer called "base1", and I select that geometry and click on the "blank" icon, it is immediately blanked, no dialog box. When I click on the "unblank" icon, it gives me a choice of layers or colors to unblank.

As far as that other forum, don't worry about them. I read a post on there that V20 lathe doesn't offset the tool correctly, and that tells me either they have a different V20 than mine, or they have no idea what they're talking about. As far as I can tell from that bunch, every $1000.00 you spend for CADCAM software over the cost of BC raises your testosterone level by 10%-hehehe

Martin

[jonbanquer]

Martin,

If the geometry is *not selected* you get a dialog box where you have to choose between Single, Chain, Region, Layer, Color, All. I would like to avoid telling BobCADCAM that Layer is my choice everytime.

"As far as I can tell from that bunch, every $1000.00 you spend for CADCAM software over the cost of BC raises your testosterone level by 10%-hehehe"

All CADCAM systems have problems but the one I like most is very methodical and predictable in how it is developed. In addition I agree with this companies philosophy in regards to how a CADCAM product should work. What I don't agree with they are reworking as they know it's needs rework.

I support multiple CADCAM systems so I'm not loyal to any particular one but I do have features that I really like in many of them.

jon

[sorincnc]

Regarding blanking function...If the geometry is highlighted when you hit the blank icon, it blanks everything at once. If the geometry is NOT selected, then bobcad needs to know how you want to select that geometry. Unfortunately, Bobcad can't read your mind and decide for you how and what to blank out (thank God for that). Once again, just complains and no show.. Nice parts posted by Ken, Tim and many others. Still waiting from some pics from JB. I guess when I get home this weekend I will have to take some pics of some of my work and post it here. That might give him a incentive to do the same. I don't buy the argument that he isn't going to post anything until Bobcad changes it's manuals or the software all together...

[TR MFG]

OK, I'll share. Best if I don't say what they are for as the product is still in the prototype stage.

[mrwhittle]

sorincnc
I'm a newbie to this forum, but not to BCC. Still have a lot to learn though!! I would like you to know that I very much appreciate your informative posts and the videos, as I'm sure everyone does.
I've not had the problems with BCC that some others say they have. I use it regularly and it does a good job for me.
On the very few occasions that I've needed to contact BCC support, I've treated them with courtesy and respect, and they have treated me the same way! I suspect that some people call in with a bad attitude and get treated accordingly.

Keep up the good work, we look forward to your posts!!!

Thank you guys for posting the great pics.

Regards,
Martin

[miljnor]

I have never used bobcad or even sean it for that matter, but I read most post on this sight.

I have exception to part of this comment:

On the very few occasions that I've needed to contact BCC support, I've treated them with courtesy and respect, and they have treated me the same way! I suspect that some people call in with a bad attitude and get treated accordingly.

I might have taken the "treated accordingly" statement wrong, if so disregard my rant.

I run a successfull company. and if a customer calls up with attitude my sales staff Doesn't get paid to reflect the customers attitude. They get paid to answer tech and sales questions to the best of their ability and if they are doing differnent they will be let go. Any company that lets their sales/tech staff retaliate bad behavior isn't doing theirselves any favors. Every customer contact must be treated as a potential sale (even if they already own a seat of software! Because you don't know who they will talk to or recomend your product to.)

Enough said!

ps: Now if they chose to cuss the customer out after the phone is hung up, well lets just say, a little venting never hurt anyone!

[tjones]

Jon,

Bobcad may not have what you asked for but with scripts we can make it have it. Create a new script and insert this.

unselectall
Attributes Output, Layer = currentLayer
CADLayer
XSelect Layers = currentlayer
Attributes Layer = currentLayer, Blank=TRUE

Now before running the script simply select the layer you want to blank from the drop down menu of the 'extra tools' menu bar. When you run this script (you can set this to a shortcut or blank shortcut if you like) then it will blank the selected layer.

[tjones]

Sorry to hear about someone having trouble with Bobcad support but I have heard of this happening at other companies. After a while even the most level headed person would give up and not take the calls anymore.

Customer relations calls this a waste of money(their way of getting away from the problem). Somewhere even the best draws a line. I had to give up doing work for certain companies (back when I owned my own) that you could never make happy even if you had everything in specs.

Bobcad has a product that they sell. If you don't want the product don't buy it. If you have bought it make sure it does what the advertisement says it will do. If it does what was expected before it was purchased but you want more then ask in a nice way. If they say no then next time buy another software. If you are not satisfied with any software then hire someone to make your own. If you can't then don't make life unbearable for the poor guy who can't do anything about it either. Just respect for those who are in the same boat as the rest of us.

I did support and training for a servicing and sales company and they had one customer they gave up on. That is hard to do for a 250k machine but they took the machine back. The guy and used it like crazy but found a few tools he couldn't do and was never told he could with the standard software. He would not stop costing the company money and constantly inflamed other companies with the bad mouthing and downright rude remarks. They took the machine back after he refused to make payments and they now have a lawsuit against him.

[kenlambert]

what is the testing about?

[tjones]

Ken,

Due to some flaming on the sight the forum was blocked from posts until the owner decided to allow them back.

[kenlambert]

Tjones if you give me your address I have a gift for you to look at and compaire.

[sorincnc]

Regarding "Blank" function, why not just go to "selection " tool bar and click on "Select by layer" icon. Now click on th layer(or multitude of layers while holding down "ctrl"key) and then click OK.Layers are now selected and you then can blank the out. By the way Tim, nice script....More for the guys if it is OK for you.

[tjones]

Any script I post is OK to give to anyone. The blank layer script just shows how versitile Bobcad can be. It really surprised me noone did it already. Of course there are many great scripts out there allowing the customizing and automating of Bobcad.

I think the blank layer script would be a great script to use in a video to show how to add a menu and then add a shortcut key to the menu.

This way you can show a really functional use for something like that. I am using it because I typically type a new layer name in the drop box (this creates a new layer) and then post a tool path (it will be on the new layer just typed). After posting to the NC I blank the path and then do the next. I do this when I am creating multiple paths just to keep them off the screen.

Just a quicker way to do a simple task.

[sorincnc]

Tim,
That is the way I do things also (remember I also suggested that in the class). It is by far the best and safest way to get your code. You can only cut what is on the screen so you can't cut the wrong path with the wrong tool. Take care my friend.

[tjones]

I do Sorin. What I ment (but didn't explain properly) was I combine these usually in one large program for running overnight with roughing, sime-finishing, and finishing all together.

If I remember Sorin likes to have a sepperate program for each. Better organizing that way. I blank each pass so I can keep adding more to the main. I would do sepperate passes if I did these during day runs though.

I was just suggesting the video for the script editing and menu adding with keyboard shortcut, not really for the other things you already do. Sorry for the missunderstanding Sorin.