[carbidecraters]

Spindle moves back and forth and wont go into any rpm range. We try the higher rpm range and we see it move back and forth faster. What would cause this?

1987 qt10 T1 control

[bigbobomb]

Spindle moves back and forth and wont go into any rpm range. We try the higher rpm range and we see it move back and forth faster. What would cause this?

1987 qt10 T1 control

Could be a bad soleniod valve for gear shifting. Could be a bad wire or proximity switch for gear shift confirm (but probally not because it never completes a shift). Could be a faulty spindle drive. My money is on the bad solenoid valve.

[scadvice]

I'm curious, why would you say it is not the prox. sensor? Something my be wrong with my thinking, but if the sensor is not sending the signal, then the control will continue to try and shift until it receives the command or times out.
I would think the prox. sensor is the problem if you can see the solenoid valve cycle.
Steve

[carbidecraters]

We have had a hard time to get it in and out of G1 and G2 (gear positions) Both of the hall sensors show little red lights but the shaft doesnt move in and out so I am going with bad selenoid. I think this selenoid is air driven as it has 2 air lines coming in and out of it. Is it possible to rebuild these selenoids like you can do a MAC valve on a fadal?

[carbidecraters]

OK so we replaced the air lines...one was a little leaky. Took the cover plate off the shifter. Sure enough it moves enough to get two distinct gears and a neutral in the middle so the shifting is right and the selenoid is working. The spindle still moves back and forth as if looking for the shift. Could this mean the hall effects sensor is not picking up either of the steel disks that tell it hi/low gear? When we shift we see the sensor light so we know its getting power. Whether or not its getting the magnetic trigger to tell it its in that range I do not know. At this point we will try to adjust the metal disks and see if it picks up high range. It appears that the low range disk is almost over the middle of the sensor so it could be a spindle inverter issue....gawd I hope it isnt it 3K just to have it fixed and we already went down this road once.

[carbidecraters]

Well it still wont see high gear and wont light up the high gear sensor. In low gear it is still mooving back and forth and the sensor lights up. Who here has taken apart a high low unit? We have taken the top off to make sure the large piston is moving back and forth. Coudl the gears be damaged in the gear box?

[bigbobomb]

I'm curious, why would you say it is not the prox. sensor? Something my be wrong with my thinking, but if the sensor is not sending the signal, then the control will continue to try and shift until it receives the command or times out.
I would think the prox. sensor is the problem if you can see the solenoid valve cycle.
Steve

if it just moves back and forth and the shifter does not move in and out then it is not going to see the switch. but if the shifter shaft is going left to right then in very well may be the switch. i did just have to send a drive out not to long ago for the same kind of problem. i was just thinking to prove out the little things first. soleniod valve, prox switch, bad wire, possible I/O board

[Leelund]

carbidecraters,
You said in an earlier post that the hall sensors had red lights on. They should not be on at the same time. Go to the diagnostic page and see if address H5.2(Low gear) and H5.3(hi gear) are working. Put the shifter in center and use a metal feeler gauge to test them.
If sensors are good, fire the solenoid and measure the stroke of the dog. If it is short, you probably have the shift shaft picked up or some other mechanical problem causing lost motion.
Just in case, Do you have the spindle orient option?
Lee

[scadvice]

if it just moves back and forth and the shifter does not move in and out then it is not going to see the switch. but if the shifter shaft is going left to right then in very well may be the switch. i did just have to send a drive out not to long ago for the same kind of problem. i was just thinking to prove out the little things first. soleniod valve, prox switch, bad wire, possible I/O board

Is it possible the high prox. sensor is bad?

[carbidecraters]

Well it seems like the shaft doesnt move out far enough to actuate the high gear sensor. I can take the bracket off and move it and it does light up. Funny thing is that the issue happens in low gear as well.

[carbidecraters]

I can get it to engage far enough to get the high speed and it turns freely by hand but then when trying to start the spindle it only moves back and forth as if to move the selenoid into place. High gear uses the air pressure to push the piston back and low uses the pressure to push it forward towards the chuck and control. It seems like it is getting into gear but it doesnt move much and I fear its the gearbox.

[carbidecraters]

carbidecraters,
You said in an earlier post that the hall sensors had red lights on. They should not be on at the same time. Go to the diagnostic page and see if address H5.2(Low gear) and H5.3(hi gear) are working. Put the shifter in center and use a metal feeler gauge to test them.
If sensors are good, fire the solenoid and measure the stroke of the dog. If it is short, you probably have the shift shaft picked up or some other mechanical problem causing lost motion.
Just in case, Do you have the spindle orient option?
Lee

I dont think we have a orient option this is an old dog. It also doesnt have a diagnosis page. I know the stroke is short but it still turns freely so I dont know where the issue comes from.

[carbidecraters]

So our shift shaft was slightly loose and the retaining nut had backed off slightly. We moved the high range disk back and retightened everything. We are still getting the back and forth motion. The spindle drive isnt signalling anything funky and after a short period we get a motor overload error. Now I am thinking it may be a encoder or spindle motor issue.

[Leelund]

The spindle motor should rock back and forth. It's a little routine to help mesh the gears. It's not a problem.
No diagnostic page? Must be an old dog! I'm at a loss..........
Lee

[bigbobomb]

So our shift shaft was slightly loose and the retaining nut had backed off slightly. We moved the high range disk back and retightened everything. We are still getting the back and forth motion. The spindle drive isnt signalling anything funky and after a short period we get a motor overload error. Now I am thinking it may be a encoder or spindle motor issue.

what type spindle drive is it? like i said before, i did have same problem before and it was the spindle drive unit. took it out and sent it mitsubishi for repair and problem solved. dont think it is encoder because it never turns full revolution so drive dont see a fault plus you would alarm out with feedback loss. i also think that if it was motor it would alarm out also. good luck

[carbidecraters]

I agree I think its the drive. Once the sensor is lit up the spindle should not be looking for the gear shift. The amazing part of this is that yesterday it was cool in the hsop and we got the spindle to work for about 10 minutes. Something is overheating and I dont know what it could be on the spindle drive. Spindle drive is a frequral (mitsu).

[carbidecraters]

The spindle motor should rock back and forth. It's a little routine to help mesh the gears. It's not a problem.
No diagnostic page? Must be an old dog! I'm at a loss..........
Lee

The diagostic page appears to be only for downloading..not sure I have never used it and dont have any good service manuals. At any rate it didnt show any issues.

[bigbobomb]

I agree I think its the drive. Once the sensor is lit up the spindle should not be looking for the gear shift. The amazing part of this is that yesterday it was cool in the hsop and we got the spindle to work for about 10 minutes. Something is overheating and I dont know what it could be on the spindle drive. Spindle drive is a frequral (mitsu).

There is one more thing you can check. The motor overload thermal inside the spindle motor could be the problem. Open up the motor cover and put a jumper on the two leads marked OSH1 and OSH2. If the machine is older they might be marked LM1 and LM2. Just know that they are NOT the ones marked MR1 and MR2 as theses are the cooling fan (if you jumper them they will short out). This is a long shot but it is worth checking I guess. If this does not fix the problem then you have a bad spindle drive.

[carbidecraters]

There is one more thing you can check. The motor overload thermal inside the spindle motor could be the problem. Open up the motor cover and put a jumper on the two leads marked OSH1 and OSH2. If the machine is older they might be marked LM1 and LM2. Just know that they are NOT the ones marked MR1 and MR2 as theses are the cooling fan (if you jumper them they will short out). This is a long shot but it is worth checking I guess. If this does not fix the problem then you have a bad spindle drive.

Thanks! :beer: I will give it a shot this evening. I am hoping its not the drive it will be the 3rd time it has gone into Mitsu/Mazak for repair. Each time it has been just out of their warrantee.

[chippy1]

Try taking the end of a screw driver and tapping on the small relays on the spindle drive. Some times they stick and you won't see a zero speed signal or up to speed signal.

Regards,

Chippy