[cnczoner]

Hi,
Is it possible to get R8 collets and an R8 drill chuck that have approx the same length?
The R8 drill chuck I have is about 3" longer than my collets, and this really limits my Z travel since the quill is CNC'ed and not the column. IIRC the total travel is about 5", so with the chuck length difference, I get about 2" of net travel. The problem is actually worse considering that most drill bits are longer than most endmills. Currently, if I have to drill and mill a single part, I have to unbolt the column locknuts, then raise the head, tighten it up, and re-align. Very time-consuming.

Finding stub-length drill bits and extended-length endmills (which I'm still not sure is a good idea), would only partly solve the problem.

So, can I find a set of collets and a chuck that have roughly the same height?

Thanks,
-Neil.

[tpworks]

Neil,
you could use end mill holders to extend your end mills length.

[mxtras]

Or get an ER collet holder to use in place of the drill chuck.

I've not seen a stubby drill chuck with an R-8 arbor. Some are shorter than others, but they still eat up space. The collet holder is your best chance to shorten things up. Lengthening everything up to match your longest holder is another option but I wouls not advise it. Always run your end mills as short as possible. Always. (unless you are using them as a drill).

Scott

[cnczoner]

Okay, I'm not familiar with a lot of these tools, but I'll look up enco etc after this. You're right that I don't want to use longer endmills due to flex etc, but if an endmill holder extends it a bit with some rigidity I might bite. Reason is that (my mill) has this (relatively) large flange that gets in the way of my hold-down clamps.

I'm not sure if ER collets are only available in standard sizes, but I hope not, since I need to use not-so-standard drill bits (tap drills and clearance drills for #6, #8, #10, and other sizes). Wish me luck...
Thanks.

[philbur]

Each ER collet will cover a range of sizes normally 1mm. So a full standard set will cover every possible tool size within the max/min capabilities of the set.

Seems to me that an ER collet together with stub drills would be the best compromise. Changing drill bit size is not going to be as quick as a drill chuck of course.

Phil

I'm not sure if ER collets are only available in standard sizes, but I hope not, since I need to use not-so-standard drill bits (tap drills and clearance drills for #6, #8, #10, and other sizes). Wish me luck...
Thanks.

[digits]

Each ER collet will cover a range of sizes normally 1mm. So a full standard set will cover every possible tool size within the max/min capabilities of the set.

Seems to me that an ER collet together with stub drills would be the best compromise. Changing drill bit size is not going to be as quick as a drill chuck of course.

Phil

I suppose he could use a quick-change system such as the Tormach TTS or Hitech System's changer though. I have the Hitech one (http://www.hightechsystemsllc.com/pt_rapid_changer.html) on my X-1 and just use collets for all my drills,countersinks and endmills.

[philbur]

That would work also.

I guess it depends what type of tooling he needs to change most frequently. As this probably varies from job to job having alternative solutions available would give additional flexibility with respect to matching tool lengths for the sequence of operations to be performed.

Phil

PS: Having worked with a manual round column mill for 8 years + I know the pain of the tool changing routine only to well. I now have a Tormach mill with quick change tooling, absolute magic.

I suppose he could use a quick-change system such as the Tormach TTS or Hitech System's changer though. I have the Hitech one (http://www.hightechsystemsllc.com/pt_rapid_changer.html) on my X-1 and just use collets for all my drills,countersinks and endmills.

[cnczoner]

My common tools for most projects will be endmills of 1/2", 3/8" and drill bits of .1065" (#36), 7/64", 9/64", .1695" (#18), .1770 (#16), .1360 (#29), 11/64".

I've been researching...

I like the Tormach TTS but it does not really solve my problem of different heights, as I've spoken with both LMS and Tormach about this and they both indicate that there will be a significant height difference still. But the shorter shank length will be a plus in alleviating the problem I'm having, as I won't need to raise the head much to slip in a new tool.

Also, I was under the impression that collets are designed for a very specific size of bit, and never knew about ER collets. But I've learned otherwise now and it seems that's the way for me to go, rather than to use drill chucks.

And finally, some research at McMaster tells me I can get all the drill bits I need with a shorter flute length so that will be a major help too.

But research adds confusion -- should I use ER-16, ER-20, ER-32 collets? Or... ??? If I go with the Tormach TTS (which I really think I will), I'd have to use ER-20. Any reason I would not want these? I figure I'd buy just the collets I need individually for now, since it's just a few. And I have to find the ER-20 collets I need elsewhere.

Re: Hitech's changer system, I'm not sure what I'm looking at there. But I will say that this little toy will be on my wish list... http://littlemachineshop.com/product...gory=209730719
:banana:

Cheers,
-Neil.

[digits]

Re: Hitech's changer system, I'm not sure what I'm looking at there. But I will say that this little toy will be on my wish list... http://littlemachineshop.com/product...gory=209730719
:banana:

Cheers,
-Neil.

The hightech changer is a quick changer that goes into your spindle, and then takes special ER16 collet holders - the changer is the red thing in this pic of my X-1 in action:


To change tools, you simply stop the spindle, push the red sleeve up and the ER16 holder with tool falls out. You then just push the new tool-holder in, release the red sleeve and it locks in place. It can also be used to build an ATC - there's an example in a woodworking thread on here called something like 'two more of Joes machine'

[cnczoner]

Sound quite simple. For Tormach's TTS, it seems I need to mess with the drawbar to change tools, so not sure it's that much quicker than changing R8's altogether. The big advantage though is pre-setting all the tool heights.

This hitech changer seems much easier to change tool bits, but does it allow you to preset tool-bit heights? Also, you mentioned "special" ER16 collets. How is this different from any other ER16 collet holder?

Yeah, I'm pretty new to all this machining stuff BTW, how much did you pay for this hitech tool changer. Seems they're out of stock on these, so the price has been removed.

Thanks,
-Neil.

[philbur]

Tormach ER collets are relatively expensive. You should look for a boxed set that cover the full range. ER20 will seemlessly cover every diameter from 2 mm to 13 mm. Buy only the ER holders from Tormach.

Just a thought
Phil

Any reason I would not want these? I figure I'd buy just the collets I need individually for now, since it's just a few. And I have to find the ER-20 collets I need elsewhere.
-Neil.

[cnczoner]

The Tormach set starts at 3/64" and goes up by 1/64" until 1/2" (30 pcs). Nice, but I need only 5-6 pcs for now, and if I don't need to spend $345 for the set now, it would be nice. Best I can find in single pieces so far are from Enco at ~$18 each, but they don't have the 1/64" increments I need. I should scour Ebay for a set perhaps...

Yes, the ER holders I would have to get from Tormach, as they fit the TTS. And for some odd reason, I can't find ER20 holders with an R8 mount from anywhere else (so far).

Moving this week, so all this will have to go on hold until next week or so.

Thanks,
-Neil.

[philbur]

A set of 12 ER20 metric collets will cover everything from 2mm to 13mm which is everything from 3/64" to 32/64".

Phil

The Tormach set starts at 3/64" and goes up by 1/64" until 1/2" (30 pcs). Nice, but I need only 5-6 pcs for now, and if I don't need to spend $345 for the set now, it would be nice. Best I can find in single pieces so far are from Enco at ~$18 each, but they don't have the 1/64" increments I need. I should scour Ebay for a set perhaps...

Yes, the ER holders I would have to get from Tormach, as they fit the TTS. And for some odd reason, I can't find ER20 holders with an R8 mount from anywhere else (so far).

Moving this week, so all this will have to go on hold until next week or so.

Thanks,
-Neil.

[cnczoner]

Oh yeah -- metric ..... doh!
Thanks Phil!

[philbur]

You miss the point, you are speaking without thinking.

They work equally well on imperial tooling as well as metric. A 6-7mm collet of course doesn't know if the tool diameter is 6.35 mm or 0.25 inches. The same as a drill chuck can be 13 mm or 1/2", they both will hold a 0.25" drill bit equally well. Doh.

Good luck with you search
Phil

Oh yeah -- metric ..... doh!
Thanks Phil!

[cnczoner]

You miss the point, you are speaking without thinking.

They work equally well on imperial tooling as well as metric. A 6-7mm collet of course doesn't know if the tool diameter is 6.35 mm or 0.25 inches. The same as a drill chuck can be 13 mm or 1/2", they both will hold a 0.25" drill bit equally well. Doh.

Good luck with you search
Phil

Phil,

Actually that *is* exactly what I understood. I was saying "doh!" that I didn't think of that earlier (until you mentioned A set of 12 ER20 metric collets will cover everything from 2mm to 13mm which is everything from 3/64" to 32/64".)

Similarly, I was recently looking for a 0.138" drill bit which is the recommended size for 6-32 captive studs, and I found that a 3.5mm drill bit is just about perfect for this.

Cheers,
-Neil.

[philbur]

Neil,

Ops, my misunderstanding, sorry.

Phil

Phil,

Actually that *is* exactly what I understood. I was saying "doh!" that I didn't think of that earlier (until you mentioned A set of 12 ER20 metric collets will cover everything from 2mm to 13mm which is everything from 3/64" to 32/64".)

Similarly, I was recently looking for a 0.138" drill bit which is the recommended size for 6-32 captive studs, and I found that a 3.5mm drill bit is just about perfect for this.

Cheers,
-Neil.