[tikka308]

Newbie question: On desktop mills (Taig, X3, etc), why is it common to see the Y axis limited to 5.5" or 7", etc?

I assume it's because the table can only move so far before hitting the column (versus the x axis, which has no physical barrier). Is this part of/most of the answer?

As I'm getting closed to pulling the trigger on a Taig, I'm sitting here looking at a ruler and sadly realizing that 5.5" isn't much....

Thanks!

[MrWild]

The limits are the pysical limits. Depending on the machine, the lead screw may not have more threads than 5.5 inches. It isn't just obstructions, but the hidden design limits also. Just because the X axis has no visible obstructions doesn't mean it is limitless. If you have the room, I'd buy a used industrial mill before I bought a toy. A desktop mill is pretty much just that too. A toy. If you want to do work on small models, it's okay, but a large machine will do small model work, AND just about anything else you want to throw at it.

[GeneK]

Newbie question: On desktop mills (Taig, X3, etc), why is it common to see the Y axis limited to 5.5" or 7", etc?

I assume it's because the table can only move so far before hitting the column (versus the x axis, which has no physical barrier). Is this part of/most of the answer?

As I'm getting closed to pulling the trigger on a Taig, I'm sitting here looking at a ruler and sadly realizing that 5.5" isn't much....

Thanks!

That's precisely why I put the A2ZCNC upgrade on my Sherline, the X axis in now 14" and the Y is 11" travel

GeneK

[Stepper Monkey]

I would agree that if you need a bigger work envelope, you might need to look into a much bigger than desktop machine. Unfortunately, a Sherline is really lightweight even as benchtop goes, and an extended axis makes it even more so. I do know artists who only do light sculptural and modeling work in soft materials, but need a large working envelope, and even though I'm going to get in trouble for saying it, that setup really is exactly the perfect solution for them. For machining metal it often doesn't work though.

Part of the limits on Y often have to do with rigidity, weight, and vibration, as the spindle then needs to cantilever out further to utilize the larger Y - leading to a number of variables in the design that need to change. Extend the Y and you need a more solidly built and heavier machine to keep the same rigidity, or one of the same build and weight that is then more fragile. This is why X is often very long, as its length is (almost) arbitrary, but the Y usually very short as it has a definite tradeoff.

[bigbunny5]

....I'd buy a used industrial mill before I bought a toy. A desktop mill is pretty much just that too. A toy. If you want to do work on small models, it's okay, but a large machine will do small model work, AND just about anything else you want to throw at it.

I have disagree with you on that, We have a Large Bridgeport type Mill in our shop and It is great for the large stuff like making fixtures, boring engine blocks , etc.. but for the small Industrial Models and Jewelry stuff I do it's a HUGE Nightmare! I have a Taig Lathe, and if I had the resources I'd
with out hesitation buy a Taig Mill. I can assure you the taig Lathe is in no way a TOY like the old unimats. Right now I'm working on a shop made Mill and because the working envelope is only 3"x5" I'd Hardly cal it a toy as well! it all comes down to need SIZE DOES MATTER, have you ever tried to cross the ocean in a Row Boat ? or Tried to Cross the Delaware in an Ocean Line?

[Stepper Monkey]

I agree with you too, bigbunny, its why I have several different mills for different jobs - just be very careful, you are getting into extremely dangerous territory on here. When the subject of size comes up, its best to just grunt, scratch yourself and mumble things about beer, hockey and monster trucks. Just a friendly warning.

[Stepper Monkey]

Now that you mention it, the Y axis on a Taig seems like the only real mod that makes sense to do to one, other than relocating the motor so it isn't hanging off to the left and so far forward it cams up the Z slide - the only other real design flaw of them as far as I am concerned.

An extended Y axis of 1" or 2" seems to be a trivial bolt-on mod, with no replacing of anything necessary other than the two simple 3/4" square steel shafts used as ways and an extended screw of course. A simple spacer is all else that would seem to be required on the base, trivial to make. It even appears that just taking an entire replacement Y-axis ali extrusion available from taig for $50 would work to simply bandsaw into 2" chunks and would make 4 or 5 of the required spacers. The stock spindle riser from a Taig lathe would offset the spindle correctly. This added length even allows for the positioning of the motor behind and central to the spindle which has some serious advantages in correcting the mills only inherent design flaw.

It would appear that the ways are even long enough that with an extended screw a 1" extension could be done with nothing more than it, a 1" lathe spindle riser, and a 2"x1.5"x1" block with two holes drilled in it to stand the bearing block back an inch. The extended screw could even just be a shortened stock relacement X-axis screw.

Am I missing something or is it really that simple?


UPDATE: The stock Y axis screw extends about .6"-.7" past the nut when the carriage hits the column. This means the whole screw assembly can move forward relative to the machine 1/2" with no trouble.
More interestingly, the center screw holding the front way cover prevents further motion the other direction. It hits the screw about 1/2" early, before the Y axis actual designated stop. Removing that one screw adds 1/2" travel all by itself!

I now have a Taig running 6.6" in Y by removing the center front way cover screw, and adding a spacer block to the screw assembly. I made it by drilling two .200" holes and one .580" hole in a scrap piece of 1/2" flat stock (cut to 1" x 2.75"). Took all of 10 minutes with a hacksaw and a drill press to make, install, and test. Add two longer 10-32 cap screws and you are looking at a total cost of about .25 cents. Nice.


Thank you Tikka, I never looked into modding my Taig, as I just use one of my larger mills if size is an issue. I can't believe I never even looked into is as it is pathetically simple. This also means in addition to the mod I described above, 8" travel in Y is not unrealistic to reach for maybe $50-80 total for someone who is interested, with the nice feature that all parts needed to be made to extend the Taig can be made using a stock Taig. Convenient.

[tikka308]

Stepper Monkey - you're welcome!

I don't follow all of your lingo (at least not yet) as I'm still researching my options - but this thread has helped solidify my belief that the TAIG will be one of the best (if not "the best") desktop mills! I understand the innate weakness in further cantilevering the headstock to allow for more Y-axis travel. I'm glad to hear you got a little more room out of it though!

I'm hoping to have my machine ordered within the next month (mainly need to research motors, drivers & software) - but then look forward to replicating your mod!

[under-dog]

I have disagree with you on that, We have a Large Bridgeport type Mill in our shop and It is great for the large stuff like making fixtures, boring engine blocks , etc.. but for the small Industrial Models and Jewelry stuff I do it's a HUGE Nightmare! I have a Taig Lathe, and if I had the resources I'd
with out hesitation buy a Taig Mill. I can assure you the taig Lathe is in no way a TOY like the old unimats. Right now I'm working on a shop made Mill and because the working envelope is only 3"x5" I'd Hardly cal it a toy as well! it all comes down to need SIZE DOES MATTER, have you ever tried to cross the ocean in a Row Boat ? or Tried to Cross the Delaware in an Ocean Line?

I agree. While a sledge hammer will pound in a finish nail (and very efficiently I might add) it is not the tool of choice for making fine and delicate furniture.......


Unless you dont mind a few smashed fingers, bent and crooked nails and and a whole lot of dents dings and the like on your finely crafted furniture. Thats taking into account it survives the process at all.

Every tool has its place and purpose is the point.

As far as the smaller machines go they are what they are: intended for a specific purpose:
1) space consciouse
2) budget consciouse
3) specifically designed for working on small, fine, delicate parts (relitavely speaking)
4) one off and maybe small run parts


As far as them being a toy: I am trying to imagine my 5 year old having a go at it with my taig...........Dolls might still be the safer option

When Hasbro makes a mill that is all plastic and foam, cuts playdough and you can stick your hand into the bit while running then you have toy tool mill catagory


The Y travel question

In a column style machine:
As far as Y travel it is a limitation of the throat of the machine (distance between the center of the spindle and the column support for the spindle head. One can deepen the throat but potentially at the cost of spindle head/support rigidity.



A gantry style machine will give a much larger Y travel (more proportionate to the X) purely by design.


Each have thier strengths and weaknesses though(gantry versus column)

[bigbunny5]

As far as them being a toy: I am trying to imagine my 5 year old having a go at it with my taig...........Dolls might still be the safer option

OK Under Dog you just dropped a quarter in the slot and asked NO BEGGED For the rant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't just sit there and imagine you're 5 y.o. having a go with your Taig. I promise there is nothing he could do to hurt it!!!!!!! get out a block of foam or rubber and work with him on the Taig, I'm not saying put him in a room and let him go at it! But I am saying you can NEVER go wrong putting a tool in a kids hands and teaching them to use it! My daughter was out in my shop when I was working on cars the second she could crawl. As a result Mechanics HAVE TO TELL HER THE TRUTH, cuz she knows better. in this day and age when schools are getting rid of industrial arts , we parents have to step up and hand the trades down! Besides how can spending any time with a kid be bad ? [/RANT]
[RANT] What kind of dad gives his son dolls ??? tools provide better life skills [/Rant]

[ironDigit]

why would a y-axis travel further when the cutter has already left the table and thus the cutting area .

though late i hope i ain't TOO late.

[genexis]

That's precisely why I put the A2ZCNC upgrade on my Sherline, the X axis in now 14" and the Y is 11" travel

GeneK

Hi! Do you have some pictures of the X and Y axis mill from A2ZCNC? Did you add the additional headblock also?

What is your effective cutting area now ?

[GeneK]

Hi! Do you have some pictures of the X and Y axis mill from A2ZCNC? Did you add the additional headblock also?

What is your effective cutting area now ?

There are pictures on the A2Z CNC site. If I remember correctly I now have 14" in X axis and a little over 11" in the Y axis. I am not using the standard Sherline head stock, I have the Sherline industrial headstock with the dove tail base. It does not mount on the post and can't swivel. I have the 2000 type ram so I don't need the swivel. Also have installed the extended Z axis 15" mill bed.
The dove tail based head stock has a brass gib and I have consistantly been able to adjust the Z axis backlash to 0.001"

GeneK