[Tkamsker]

I think He means of an real World customer ...

[asuratman]

I think He means of an real World customer ...

Wait for Louie's mill to arrive.

[handlewanker]

And then....and then????.....Louie only has the high speed carving spindle option which is a whole universe away from a milling one, but I expect he'll attempt to mill with it too.....at the lowest speed of 8,000 rpm. with tiny carbide cutters.......yeah, and an ER20 collet too, max size 13mm.......an opinion based on that would be worth zit.

Giving an opinion on a milling operation using a high speed spindle......and that does not have the PDB option so tool changing will be relegated to small cutters and manual changing......is only giving an opinion by smelling the food as opposed to actually tasting it.

I would rather put my faith in a feedback of an actual milling operation with a milling spindle, unless I was contemplating only doing carving and engraving, in which case the resolution and incremental accuracy is somewhat hard to judge.

If the demo video on UTUBE didn't impress anyone, they are hard to please.

I think just having only the ER32 spindle option, as in the basic model, would put the mill through it's paces and highlight any shortcomings for accuracy and reliability to repeat dimensions......especially the squareness of the 3 axes to each other.......the most important factor for any mill.

It has to have turnkey capability straight out of the box, otherwise you have sandwiches at a banquet when you're expecting a smorgasbord.

You have to decide what it is you want to achieve with a mill of this size and calibre before dismissing it based on someone else's opinion and needs.
Ian.

[high-side]

When is someone going to post a video of a skyfire ? I have followed this thread for years and would like to see one running.

Well, you will be waiting a long time for a video from handlewanker. He's spending all of his time redesigning the draw bar, when he should have been putting his time to better use getting acquainted with CAD/CAM & Mach3.

[louieatienza]

And then....and then????.....Louie only has the high speed carving spindle option which is a whole universe away from a milling one, but I expect he'll attempt to mill with it too.....at the lowest speed of 8,000 rpm. with tiny carbide cutters.......yeah, and an ER20 collet too, max size 13mm.......an opinion based on that would be worth zit.

Giving an opinion on a milling operation using a high speed spindle......and that does not have the PDB option so tool changing will be relegated to small cutters and manual changing......is only giving an opinion by smelling the food as opposed to actually tasting it.

I would rather put my faith in a feedback of an actual milling operation with a milling spindle, unless I was contemplating only doing carving and engraving, in which case the resolution and incremental accuracy is somewhat hard to judge.

If the demo video on UTUBE didn't impress anyone, they are hard to please.

I think just having only the ER32 spindle option, as in the basic model, would put the mill through it's paces and highlight any shortcomings for accuracy and reliability to repeat dimensions......especially the squareness of the 3 axes to each other.......the most important factor for any mill.

It has to have turnkey capability straight out of the box, otherwise you have sandwiches at a banquet when you're expecting a smorgasbord.

You have to decide what it is you want to achieve with a mill of this size and calibre before dismissing it based on someone else's opinion and needs.
Ian.

You absolutely have no clue, whatsoever, about high-speed milling of aluminum... which is about 99.9% of what I do. I purchased my machine with SPECIFIC PURPOSES in mind. And I have a good CAM system that will actually take advantage of the features of my machine, some of which Defeng has shown. And some he didn't, at my request. I didn't purchase this as a toy to amuse myself. Heck I mill aluminum at pretty high speeds right now with my CNC router, and I'm taking 1/2xD-1xD rDoC using a wood router. I should be able to bump it up even more with the better bearings and housing in the water cooled spindle.

Also, I have a 2.2kW spindle with an.ER25 collet. I make mostly small parts with smaller tools. I make lofted letters for a memorial wall for one of my clients, and I have to do the finish pass with a 1/16" endmill, 1/4" total depth, to give the inside corners of the font a "sharp" look. You just can't do this with slower spindle speeds unless your feedrates are excruciatingly slow as well. I even made a small run of 1911 pistol grips our of aluminum, where I had to do some pencil trace toolpaths with a 1/16" ball endmill to clean up the fillets between surfaces, as well as on the contoured surfaces themselves. Again, I need higher spindle speeds to get good surface finishes and get the proper SFM for these small tools. For roughing with larger tools, the increased speed and horsepower will allow me to use 3flute tools foe roughing and increase my feeds by 50%.

And you DON'T have turnkey abilities. You have to PROGRAM your parts, as well as macros for your supposed ATC feature. You need a computer with Mach3 installed. Unless all you do are square plates and bolt hole circles, you'll need CAM. And if you want to make something complicated, you need a decent CAM. And if want to do 4 axis work it's going to be expensive.

I'm saving myself from grief and using the ignore button. Good luck, you're going to need it.

[G59]

I have to do the finish pass with a 1/16" endmill, 1/4" total depth, to give the inside corners of the font a "sharp" look.

Ouch, I know exactly what your going through. When you get into small cutters(1/16" and smaller), total spindle run out is critical. Too much slop = broken cutters that are not cheap.
I have finished many molds with a ball end mill 1/16" with a 4000rpm maximum spindle speed. Excruciatingly slow is an understatement. I think my DOC was 0.03215 with a 3.78 ipm feed rate. It does the job, but I would never do it this way again.
Not too long ago, I got an air spindle (60,000) rpm, and attached it directly in a ER40 Collet. Now it lacks torque, but it does well with small cutters.

One thing I noticed with the ignore option, you miss half the story, except when it is in quoted text.

Good luck with your new hardware.

P.S. did you get a shipment # ? Did a broker or customs contact you yet for the impending clearance? What is the total import cost?

[louieatienza]

Ouch, I know exactly what your going through. When you get into small cutters(1/16" and smaller), total spindle run out is critical. Too much slop = broken cutters that are not cheap.
I have finished many molds with a ball end mill 1/16" with a 4000rpm maximum spindle speed. Excruciatingly slow is an understatement. I think my DOC was 0.03215 with a 3.78 ipm feed rate. It does the job, but I would never do it this way again.
Not too long ago, I got an air spindle (60,000) rpm, and attached it directly in a ER40 Collet. Now it lacks torque, but it does well with small cutters.

One thing I noticed with the ignore option, you miss half the story, except when it is in quoted text.

Good luck with your new hardware.

P.S. did you get a shipment # ? Did a broker or customs contact you yet for the impending clearance? What is the total import cost?

For the lettering I rough out with a 1/8" endmill and leave .01" on the walls, which I use the 1/16" endmill to clean up. The difference between an .063" and .032" corner radius is striking when side to side. The increased rigidity of the SVM-0 over my current setup should give me even better finished parts.

On my small CNC router I was taking out .015" at 75ipm and 27krpm. Kind of fun to watch.

Not missing anything, it's the same story. Only now I won't get sucked into the abyss of misinformation.

I haven't received word yet of my machine, but as I have other pressing things, I'm not going crazy over it. Thanks...

[G59]

Not missing anything, it's the same story. Only now I won't get sucked into the abyss of misinformation.

I agree. The latest statement,

and an ER20 collet too, max size 13mm.......an opinion based on that would be worth zit.

tells me how much he knows.
13mm carbide cutter in a ER20 collet can easily choke a 3 hp. Heck, in a shrink fit holder, you can pour over 15 hp at it and still won't hurt it.

So no worries. I learned to filter.

Seems these days we're all pressed for time.

Take it easy.

[G59]

Oh, and I just looked at the SVM-0 and SVM-1 videos, and now I understand. First thing I noticed was the price. Wow. $3700 base price for the SVM-0 and $7500 for the SVM-1.
Geez man, my machine's castings alone cost that much and that's before machining.
My company will never be able to even remotely touch that.

A new 3 hp mill at that price is unbelievable. Just blows my mind.

Not to worry though as I'm smiling inside.

To an engineer or an experienced machinist/ cnc operator watching the videos, you immediately notice some things about its performance.

Louie, let me be the first to tell you, you did good getting that spindle combo.
I think we will hear much more once the machines are actually put to the test in the field.

[handlewanker]

Good luck then, a review with just the high speed spindle could possibly satisfy some buyers if all they want to do is mess with aluminium......tool changing will no doubt be an interesting past time with the ER system.....I won't even dwell on the topic of drilling and tapping holes etc.
Ian.

[LeeWay]

I thought these machines have split heads so that you could swap out spindle cartridges. If that is the case, then why argue over which type spindle a guy chooses to order the machine with? Both types have merit. Some guys order new machine with a forth axis and probably never use them. Some guys order a 4th later when they know they require them. The other type cartridge can always be ordered later if the need arises.

[yulolaf]

Right. he goes on and on prefessing the merits of being able to swap spindles in this little thing then bashes someone that uses a spindle different than his first choice, priceless. Looking forward to Lou's video at least it will be by someone that knows what they are talking about. I'm betting the wanker of handles doesn't even have video making capabilities.

[louieatienza]

Good luck then, a review with just the high speed spindle could possibly satisfy some buyers if all they want to do is mess with aluminium......tool changing will no doubt be an interesting past time with the ER system.....I won't even dwell on the topic of drilling and tapping holes etc.
Ian.

I'll answer this and then turn you off again. I bet I can helical interpolate and thread mill a hole faster than you can attempt peck drilling and tapping. Datron even sells a combination mill/thread mill, allowing me to mill and thread a hole in one operation.

[G59]

I say we all wait and see, instead of trying to outsmart each other.
Ian, CNC is a whole new ball game for you. Listen and learn as I think at the beginning, you'll be in over your head with it.
Almost everything you know from manual milling doesn't even apply or figure into it anymore.

Many machines use small high speed spindles and have metal removal rates that are equal to large hogging machines.

When you get your machine Ian, I will be the first to want to see it in action. So if you have no video camera, get one. They are relatively cheap nowadays.

[handlewanker]

I say we all wait and see, instead of trying to outsmart each other.
Ian, CNC is a whole new ball game for you. Listen and learn as I think at the beginning, you'll be in over your head with it.
Almost everything you know from manual milling doesn't even apply or figure into it anymore.

Many machines use small high speed spindles and have metal removal rates that are equal to large hogging machines.

When you get your machine Ian, I will be the first to want to see it in action. So if you have no video camera, get one. They are relatively cheap nowadays.

You're right of course........being in above my head is not a new experience, and for me CNC is going to test the waters pretty damm hard I guess, and as they say.....you never stop learning.

I doubt whether a video will be forthcoming in the very near future.....probably later maybe........it'll be pretty dull just watching the table move up and down and sideways for a start off experience, but if I can get some interesting manoeuvers going even just cutting air and doing a few tool changes to show the scope of the package it will be something.......don't hold your breath.

No offence intended Louie.......I merely stated that a review based on just the High Speed spindle alone is not all that revealing......but go for it anyway, others might take your example and only need one spindle if you can show them that it can be a "jack of all trades"..........whatever......I have more important things to worry about, and thread milling is not even on my wish list, I like to keep it stupidly simple.
Ian.

[louieatienza]

Oh, and I just looked at the SVM-0 and SVM-1 videos, and now I understand. First thing I noticed was the price. Wow. $3700 base price for the SVM-0 and $7500 for the SVM-1.
Geez man, my machine's castings alone cost that much and that's before machining.
My company will never be able to even remotely touch that.

A new 3 hp mill at that price is unbelievable. Just blows my mind.

Not to worry though as I'm smiling inside.

To an engineer or an experienced machinist/ cnc operator watching the videos, you immediately notice some things about its performance.

Louie, let me be the first to tell you, you did good getting that spindle combo.
I think we will hear much more once the machines are actually put to the test in the field.

Thanks... Of course it's tough to say how something will perform, without actually having machine in hand. But I remain very optimistic.

I appreciate the comment about the spindle; Defeng and I felt it a good upgrade from the stock 1.5HP version. Yes, these are amazing deals for what is included. I had spec'd out a Wabeco, similarly equipped, form their US distributor, and it was easily 6 times the price. And they both have HiWIn rails and rolled ballscrews stock. One could even argue the SkyFire castings are heavier than most any mill in its size class. Only thing I wished I waited for the SVM-1 which is in the same size class as the G0704. but that may be a down the road purchase once I am done with my move.

As to the small amount of videos on-hand, I don't think the relatively inefficient toolpaths do much to help show the machine's capabilities. My SVM-0 machine was also ordered bare-bones because I will be fitting it with my own steppers and drives, and making a small custom controller enclosure (with spill proof touch screen and keyboard). Hopefully as these machines are put to use we'll see some better examples and I hope to be part of that.

I think the mechanical upgrades I spec'd on my machine will raise some eyebrows as well... But again, I refrain from discussing them until I receive the machine (of course, you can PM me and I'll let you know)

[rustyh]

Out of interest and dont want to defer from the skyfire cnc, but heard you guys mentioning air cylinders etc quite a bit.
Im looking to test my design skills (whihc are completely limited in terms of machine design, and see if I can make a folded fin machine, much like this link

Folded Fin Machine


Would an air cylinder be suitable for the plunge forming tool, or would a machanical wheel with offset pin do the job much simplier. Also, how would you best control the movement of the sheet metal along?

[ihavenofish]

the limit to an air cylinder is force. 160psi is about max reliability for compressors and cylinders. 4" bore is roughly 12" inches square. 1920 lbs max. 1 ton. a 4 stage cylinder would be 4 tons. realistically youd use it at 100psi though, so 2.5 tons. if thats enough for your application, then it would work.

[G59]

And if you would of started your own thread with same question, you more then likely would of had a similar answer. Possibly from someone who has many years of experience dealing with specific mechanisms.

[ihavenofish]

Oh, and I just looked at the SVM-0 and SVM-1 videos, and now I understand. First thing I noticed was the price. Wow. $3700 base price for the SVM-0 and $7500 for the SVM-1.
Geez man, my machine's castings alone cost that much and that's before machining.
My company will never be able to even remotely touch that.

raw castings done here in canada are in the $1 to $1.50 range per pound. this is of course providing youve made your own patterns. getting them stress relieved and machines can cost a lot if you arent making hundreds.
castings in china are roughly $2 a pound finished last i asked (a year or so ago)

i ordered customised castings from weiss of the wmd16lv and they were $300 a set. this machine is similar in size and weight to the svm-0. sadly those castings didnt arrive (long story)