[PoppaBear10]

Here is a few pics showing the ATC Kit for Tormach Mills.

It will be available in TWO parts:

Phaze1: Is the Auto Drawbar option, in where there are 2 manual buttons, that will Grab or release the Tool Holder.

Phaze2: Is the complete ATC, with 12 tool rotary caracel. It will run Auto from
Mach3, there is an ATC page added to the standard screen sets that allow full control over the system.
1). You can Index it forward and back by one tool slot to load tools.
2). You can do Single Tool Hiegth offsets for the library.
3). You can do an "Auto Cycle" Tool Hiegth, in where all twelve (or how every many up to 12 tools), will automatcially set thier hiegth one by one.
4). Also contains a ATC dianostic, service area for trouble shooting/setup.

Here are some pics attached below:

Thanks also very much to Ken, for his help on this project!!
Note, the "Tool holder" claws are not shown as they are being reworked at the moment.

Cost: I dont have a price yet, but will get one to you when the final, be-bugged version is ready. Current "Estimate" is around 2K-3K for complete unit, and 1-1.xK for the Auto Draw bar.

The Changer is a Commercial Grade unit, very robust.

You can place orders "Early" via my Email:

PoppaBear"at"Hughes.net

(replace the "at" with @)

Scott "Poppa Bear" Shafer

[Adamj12b]

Thats awesome!. Do you have any screen shots of the ATC screen? How long do tool changes take? Will you be posting a video?

Great work. -Adam

[philbur]

Hi Scott,

About when will it be released.

Phil

PS: Sorry but the bag of spanners/wrenches hanging on the wall doesn't inspire confidence.

Here is a few pics showing the ATC Kit for Tormach Mills.

It will be available in TWO parts:

Phaze1: Is the Auto Drawbar option, in where there are 2 manual buttons, that will Grab or release the Tool Holder.

Phaze2: Is the complete ATC, with 12 tool rotary caracel. It will run Auto from
Mach3, there is an ATC page added to the standard screen sets that allow full control over the system.
1). You can Index it forward and back by one tool slot to load tools.
2). You can do Single Tool Hiegth offsets for the library.
3). You can do an "Auto Cycle" Tool Hiegth, in where all twelve (or how every many up to 12 tools), will automatcially set thier hiegth one by one.
4). Also contains a ATC dianostic, service area for trouble shooting/setup.

Here are some pics attached below:

Thanks also very much to Ken, for his help on this project!!
Note, the "Tool holder" claws are not shown as they are being reworked at the moment.

Cost: I dont have a price yet, but will get one to you when the final, be-bugged version is ready. Current "Estimate" is around 2K-3K for complete unit, and 1-1.xK for the Auto Draw bar.

The Changer is a Commercial Grade unit, very robust.

You can place orders "Early" via my Email:

PoppaBear"at"Hughes.net

(replace the "at" with @)

Scott "Poppa Bear" Shafer

[PoppaBear10]

Thanks,

philbur:
I acutally WORK in my shop...........
I have stuff hanging on all the walls, Plus Shelves and any other place I can find to store stuff. Me personally, if I go to a shop that doesnt look lived in, I walk out.......hehehehe

highspeedmazak: Price, yeap, you DO get what you pay for, this was specifically targeted to a Commercial Market. I built it to last, and low maintainace. I really dont want any service calls due to shoddy equipment or workmanship.

Adamj12b: I will be posting some up when it is all debugged, it will be released very soon.

Thanks for the comments,

Scott

[rwexec]

Very Nice, and I like your attitude !(nuts)
If I ever get the need for a tool changer it's great to know there is one available.
I hope you become a millonaire.
Cheers

[Willyb]

Looks good but I also think your price is to high. It is approaching half the cost of the Mill, for an ATC??

Willy

[keen]

Good on you! Look forward to seeing the finished model. Please post a video of it running - and drawings of the construction so that we can properly see the design details.

[MichaelHenry]

Willy,

$2-3k sounds expensive for a hobbyist but pretty cheap for a commercial shop. A few all night runs in a prototype shop could pay for the ATC. Those that need that capability will appeciate a robust design and be willing to pay for it.

Mike

[SarcasmOMatic]

It is tough to tell from the pictures but it looks like the spindle lock was removed. Is that true? If so, are there plans to change that? The spindle lock is obviously not important for tool changes with the power drawbar but it is still useful for locking the spindle while probing.

[PoppaBear10]

Not much longer, I had to modify the Tool Grippers for easier insertion/extraction force.

MichealHenry: Yeap, just what you said, it is targeted at the Commercial user.

Willyb: Yeap, see above. If you where to go and price the Steel, Air components, PLC, Program time, Shop time etc, and you even priced your shop rates "competitive" you would find that my profit margin is within standard practices. When you put stuff in Nema enclosures, and build to industrial specs you would be amazed at how quickly your cost rises. I make NO appologies for the cost, I am doing this to make money like any other buizness. The ATC also has a Warrenty, and Tech support, all of that is also in the cost.

SarcasmOmatic: (love the name...hehehe), You are correct, the Lock is Gone!! AND, thank you for pointing out that it would be needed with Probing, (honestly had not considered that), I will find a way to "re-install" it. Again, THANK YOU, for that little catch!!! (no pun intended).

Here is a Screen shot of the ATC page.

Scott

[Freddy Bastard]

2k$ sound's a good price for the 12 tools complete unit. I can't wait to see it working! If you have any video...

[Willyb]

Hi Scott

Don't get me wrong, from what I have seen so far your ATC looks great. I also understand that it takes allot of time and money to develop and bring to market a commercial item like this. I had originally thought that it was for Hobby use. My mistake.

Will you be using modified (slot added) Tormach Tool Holders with your ATC?

All the best in your endeavor.

Willy

[PoppaBear10]

WillyB.,

Yes, I will be using thier very nice tool holders, (slot added),

I will get some pics up very shortly, gotta do some minor crap/final adjustments. Should have some pics up tomorow or next.

Scott

[Ken_Shea]

Hey Scott,
This is also my first look at the system installed and I must say, it looks outstanding, it has been my pleasure to do the machining and fabricating of the mechanical components.

Who ever may be interested in purchasing one of Scott's units I can tell you that it was built from the get go with commercial quality in mind, just getting by was not spoken of or considered.

Super job Scott !

Ken

[PoppaBear10]

Thanks Ken!!

Ken and I have been friends for along time, and his Machines and Machining skills are far superior to mine!! Every single time I have needed parts made that were beyond my machining capacity and/or skill level I have just send Ken a CAD file and "Poof" perfect parts the 1st time! We developed a Great partnership in where I combine my Mach3 Programming, electrical, and control design experience with his skill in fabrication and machining and it was and continutes to be a great combination.

Ken, Again I thank you for your help in this project!!

If you guys need some Lathe or Mill work done, I can highly recommend Ken.

Scott

[David Bord]

Looks super interesting! I would suggest, since the price of the Tormach Mill is fairly low and targeted at the serious hobbiest, the closer you can get to 2K or below if possible the better. Im definately only a hobbiest, but I would consider it if it was at or below that price point. Much above that and I couldnt justify it. I suspect other hobbiest would be in the same boat.

Regardless, nice work, and cant wait to see a video of it running!!

David

[PoppaBear10]

David,

Thanks, I understand your concern, but It will be priced at 2.5-3k, since it is targeted to the commercial user. The warrently, customer/tech support is also part of the price.

When discussing the project originally with Greg he wanted a solution for the commercial and Prototype markets like: Schools, Engineering firms, Short run shops, and Prototype shops.

I really cannot make it cheaper than that, and stay in buizness.

If Price point is an issue, then respectfully, I would submit to you to design build your own!!

In all honesty I have tried selling stuff to the Hobbie market, and at least for me, there was NO real money in it, but lots of headaches, and non-paying time.

I do my best to sell products to OEMs, Industry or Commercial Machine shops. Most of the people/Buiz that I have seen that sell low price to the hobbie market usually have a China supplier, I don't and don't really want one.

Scott

[ckirchen]

I wouldn't worry about the hobbyist, because, quite honestly, does a hobbyist really need a tool changer?

My first CNC mill was a RF clone that I used for hobby work. Sure a toolchanger would have been nice, but for I made do without because I couldn't justify the price (even $1000 would have been too much).

Now that I have a business built around my two newer CNC's, the toolchangers are indispensible. On one machine, I've clocked 10,000 toolchanges in the last 6 months. Most of my work is prototyping with a little production (typically runs of 50, 100, or 200 pieces)

That machine came with the toolchanger built in, but assuming it cost $3,000, that works out to 30 cents per toolchange. Might sound expensive to a hobbyist, but without it, I would have not been able to handle the production jobs. The machine would not have been able to run multiple tools unattended (a big problem because in a one-man shop, you cannot afford to baby-sit a machine), the chip-to-chip time would have been longer, and it introduces the potential for error by me putting the wrong tool in the spindle And don't forget the repetitive stress of loading and unloading 10,000 tools by hand. In my mind, that 30 cents is well spent.

Neither of my machines are a Tormach, but that has nothing to do with it. A tool changer is a tool changer; it needs to be robust so that you can depend on it. If corners are cut, you can almost guarantee that it will break down when it really matters. And then it will cost much more that $500 or $1,000 to fix it ASAP.

Chris Kirchen

[David Bord]

I make small parts for folks from time to time, and understand developement time and cost. Only you know whats your product costs are and how to price it.

I wish you the best, and hope its a great success for you and look forward to seeing the final product!

David

[philbur]

Hobbyists don't buy what they need, they buy what they want (and can afford).

Commercial users are concerned about dollar per unit, hobbyists are more interested in enjoyment per dollar.

Phil

I wouldn't worry about the hobbyist, because, quite honestly, does a hobbyist really need a tool changer?