[LewisCobb]

I've done a fair bit of digging on the web and searching this and other forums. Am I correct in assuming that there is no easy way to implement speed control on an SX3 mill?

I have been comparing the X3 .vs. the SX3 and it appears that if one is ultimately going to CNC the machine, the only realy advantage the SX3 has over the X3 is the larger motor - but if one cannot speed control it, it sort of takes that advantage down a notch.

Comments ?

Thanks !

[saghirecho]

Please install extra invertor and control it with PWM controller easly.

[jbanks]

I have both an SX3 and an X3 that has been CNC'd.

I probably use the SX3 more than the CNC but that's because I use it for drilling and other things. I can't tell you the last time I used a feature that the the regular X3 doesn't have.

In other words....if you are eventually going to CNC don't buy the SX3

[LewisCobb]

Interesting. I'm probably going to eventually CNC the machine and have really been on the fence over which machine I should get based on the features. Thanks for your input.

Seeing as you have one of each, have you noticed any huge torque difference between the two in your machining operations? I am starting to think that the SX3 is using a much bigger motor to make up for the torque loss at low speed seeing as it's a single speed drive and not low/high like the X3.

I can see myself using the machine for both steel and aluminum.


Thanks again,
Lewis

I have both an SX3 and an X3 that has been CNC'd.

I probably use the SX3 more than the CNC but that's because I use it for drilling and other things. I can't tell you the last time I used a feature that the the regular X3 doesn't have.

In other words....if you are eventually going to CNC don't buy the SX3

[Vatorman]

I also have been struggling with the sx3 spindle control, I keep on looking and calling on this subject and Nothing.
I may start thinking about upgrading with a spindle and electronics all together . Maybe get more power out of it too.And also will this even be cost effective,
Is it worth the cost not sure yet.

[cornbinder23]

I also have been struggling with the sx3 spindle control, I keep on looking and calling on this subject and Nothing.
I may start thinking about upgrading with a spindle and electronics all together . Maybe get more power out of it too.And also will this even be cost effective,
Is it worth the cost not sure yet.

Hey Vatorman, I got your message and tried to reply
I have an SX3 and after countless hours of trying to figure out how to interface the stock electronics I gave in and put a 1hp 3ph motor and VFD combo on it.http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht...eady_go-2.html
The stock SX3 motor is very good, I was not able to stall it after really trying
Funny thing is even with this combo I have not felt an urgency to get the spindle under mach control as pushing the start button is not all that hard LOL

I dont own an X3 so I cant say anything about its spindle set up but I can say the BLDC motor that is in the SX3 is a very good set up and handled everything I threw at it Al, 1018, 304SS

JTCUSTOMS

[LewisCobb]

cornbinder -
I'm liking your 3ph / vfd set up on your SX3. A few questions -
- what sort of speed ranges are you getting with that set up?
- do you have any more detailed pics and/or drawings that you would be willing to share on the mounting of the motor / belt drive / pulleys etc.?
- Did you change your spindle bearings out for better ones?

Thanks!

Hey Vatorman, I got your message and tried to reply
I have an SX3 and after countless hours of trying to figure out how to interface the stock electronics I gave in and put a 1hp 3ph motor and VFD combo on it.http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht...eady_go-2.html
The stock SX3 motor is very good, I was not able to stall it after really trying
Funny thing is even with this combo I have not felt an urgency to get the spindle under mach control as pushing the start button is not all that hard LOL

I dont own an X3 so I cant say anything about its spindle set up but I can say the BLDC motor that is in the SX3 is a very good set up and handled everything I threw at it Al, 1018, 304SS

JTCUSTOMS

[No1_sonuk]

The circuit layout I've seen for the SX3 indicates it has hall sensors.
The Z axis has more travel on the SX3.

[LewisCobb]

The circuit layout I've seen for the SX3 indicates it has hall sensors.
The Z axis has more travel on the SX3.

Does this mean that a 3rd party motor controller could possibly be purchased that would allow remote (mach/emc2) speed control of the spindle ? Maybe there's some esoteric parameters in the control program specific to the mill or something that would make this difficult.....

Thanks for the input.

[No1_sonuk]

Does this mean that a 3rd party motor controller could possibly be purchased that would allow remote (mach/emc2) speed control of the spindle ? Maybe there's some esoteric parameters in the control program specific to the mill or something that would make this difficult.....

Don't know. The diagram I refered to is in here:
http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g0619_m.pdf

It looks to me like there's a 5V digital sensor system, but you'd need to see the actual motor specs to be sure.

[Al_The_Man]

Does this mean that a 3rd party motor controller could possibly be purchased that would allow remote (mach/emc2) speed control of the spindle ? Maybe there's some esoteric parameters in the control program specific to the mill or something that would make this difficult.....

Thanks for the input.

Any of the suitably sized Advanced Motion amplifier drives should control them, these take hall effect input.
For example the B25A20 model 25A peak 12.5A cont. 40-190VDC supply
It can be controlled the same way as a VFD with ±10vdc input via either a pot. for manual or with a Mach PWM to Analogue control some BOB's supply.
It must be the B prefix and not BE or S and if you want a built in power supply to feed directly off of 120 it would be the B25A20AC version.
I have seen various power sizes quoted for these motors, so there must be a few different models used?
Depending on the present supply voltage a suitable model could be selected up to 320VAC.
They can be run in the Hall velocity mode so that the commutation also acts as tachometer for accurate speed control.
5v on board to supply the hall voltage.
They can often be picked up on ebay fairly cheap.
BTW, the BLDC drives will also drive a DC brushed motor just as easily, obviously no hall commutation is used or needed.
Al.

[LewisCobb]

Al - Excellent info - thanks. I'm reminded of the Spike TV ads though when I look at this datasheet...."there is much to be learned". I'm an EE but never spent much time with motor controls other than simple DC PWM stuff. Going to crack out the books tonight though and try and make sense of it all.

If other are interested and would like to chime in on this - here's the datasheet for the unit that Al has suggested -

http://www.a-m-c.com/download/datasheet/b25a20ac.pdf

Thanks again Al. Whereabouts are you located in Canada ? I'm in NB.

Lewis

[Al_The_Man]

There are others also, Copley Controls, Aerotech etc.

Thanks again Al. Whereabouts are you located in Canada ? I'm in NB.

Lewis

Clue: Currently the Wetlands.:drowning:
Al.

[Crevice Reamer]

From Crevicereamer.com:

SX3 OR X3:

If you want the best performance, and can afford it get the SX3. The sealed, 1.33 HP SX3 BLDC motor has about twice the power of the X3 motor, and it can carry this torque into much higher RPMs. The Novakon NM-35 uses a variation of the same motor, and it has a top speed of 6000 RPM with still good torque. The SX3 uses quiet belt drive rather than noisey gears, so runs much quieter. By adding a 1:1 motor pulley/belt, 3500 RPM is possible. The SX3 has the motor INSIDE the head, not hanging off. For CNC, this is important, not only for flood coolant protection, but because you can bolt all kinds of accessories onto the clean head--like a super high speed spindle, Surface grinder, Power drawbar. When you CNC an SX3, there is a much lighter head for the motor to have to lift.

The only thing the X3 can do BETTER than the SX3, is have Mach3 easily control spindle speed. Someone WILL come up with a way to do this soon though--And meanwhile there are work-arounds and you CAN control motor on/off with Mach3.

Grizzly has the lowest cost SX3 available--and they have just lowered the price $100 from last year. You will pay more for an SX3 than for a X3, but IMO, you get what you pay for in the very powerful BLDC spindle motor, quiet belt drive, compact head design, tachometer and the possibly useful 90 degree tilting head. There are other bells and whistles, but most of them are discarded during CNC conversion.

Quazar did some excellent research on SX3 speed control:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht...ntrol_sx3.html

[LewisCobb]

From Crevicereamer.com:



Quazar did some excellent research on SX3 speed control:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht...ntrol_sx3.html

Crevice -
I have recently come across your site and am starting to read through it. All I can say at this point is "I'm not worthy".....

[Crevice Reamer]

Thanks for the kind words Lewis, but I'm sure you are.

CR.

[LewisCobb]

Thanks for the kind words Lewis, but I'm sure you are.

CR.

It's just that after flailing around trying to learn as much as possible about this cnc stuff, coming across your site is like having been in the desert and then trying to drink water from a fire hose. Outstanding work! I am sure I am like many before me that have discovered your site in that I would like to thank you for such great assistance to us who are trying to come up to speed.

Lewis

[Al_The_Man]

Fortunately no.:wave:
Al.

[LewisCobb]

Fortunately no.:wave:
Al.

Al - I have a question after perusing the a-m-c website and looking at some manuals etc. Could one of these drives with the BLDC on the SX3 be used to do rigid tapping ? It seems to me there is positional feedback of sorts from the hall sensors. I guess I don't know enough yet as to the process of stopping, reversing the motor etc. but it just occurred to me and I thought I'd ask.

Thanks,
Lewis

[No1_sonuk]

The purpose of the hall sensors is to tell the controller which segment of the revolution the rotor is in.
The controller then turns on the coils needed to turn the rotor to the next segment.
When it gets there, the hall sensor outputs change, and so the controller changes the coil configuration.

Take a look at this: brushless_motor