[Eritex Inc.]

So I am moving about 450 miles away from where I have lived my entire life. The move will include both my house and my business and involves setting up my shop on my property in a 1200 square foot shop. I have a 2007 Haas Minimill that is three phase but the new property only has single phase so I know a converter is going to need to be installed. I have been trying to explode my brain with info on converters, rotary and static, for about a month and think I am more confused about this then I was before reading and talking with my HFO along with multiple converter companies.

This is what the badge on the machine reads...



I know this model could be ordered with either a single phase or a three phase spindle and I ordered the 3 phase option. To me, the tag shows for both options, correct?

Now, next question. I need a phase converter and have talked to 5 companies and have gotten prices from $1,200.00 to $4,500.00 for a converter. To me that seems to be a pretty big window in pricing and once again, confusion has set in.

Third question. I keep reading about the balance between the three legs on three phase need to be with in 5% balance but my HFO install guy acted like I was speaking Greek when I brought it up. He said the transformer in the Haas will balance the power????


So, big question is, which converter do I need and what specs should I be going off of? This machine is my life blood so cocking it up or doing thousands of dollars of damage is not an option for me.

Thank you guys so much, I get so much great info off here

[Eritex Inc.]

One thing I forgot to add, I do a lot of rigid tapping with small taps (2-56, 2mm, etc) if that makes a difference.

[Donkey Hotey]

I don't think you'll necessarily need the phase converter. First off, your plate says 3/1 phase. I think that means Three OR Single phase.

The telltale will be your spindle drive. Open the cabinet. Do you have a Vector Drive on the right side of the cabinet? If it doesn't say Vector Drive and your spindle is driven by an amplifier on the left side of the cabinet (mixed in with the axis amplifiers), it should run on single phase power.

[Eritex Inc.]

I don't think you'll necessarily need the phase converter. First off, your plate says 3/1 phase. I think that means Three OR Single phase.

The telltale will be your spindle drive. Open the cabinet. Do you have a Vector Drive on the right side of the cabinet? If it doesn't say Vector Drive and your spindle is driven by an amplifier on the left side of the cabinet (mixed in with the axis amplifiers), it should run on single phase power.

Here is a shot I just took. I do not see "Vector Drive" anywhere.

[Machineit]

Looks like single phase. And, I might add, very clean!!!!!!

Mike

[Eritex Inc.]

How can it be both single and three phase? Also, is there any drawbacks to single phase operation? I thought I heard it would cog at lower RPM, run hotter, and have a little less power and torque with the single phase spindle so that is why I picked the three phase spindle???

LOL, I sound like a real idiot right now...

[CamIam]

Looks like single phase. And, I might add, very clean!!!!!!

Mike

I second that. Holy Clean!!! Like my Nana always said cleanliness is close to godliness.

[RevEdo]

I don't think you'll necessarily need the phase converter. First off, your plate says 3/1 phase. I think that means Three OR Single phase.

The telltale will be your spindle drive. Open the cabinet. Do you have a Vector Drive on the right side of the cabinet? If it doesn't say Vector Drive and your spindle is driven by an amplifier on the left side of the cabinet (mixed in with the axis amplifiers), it should run on single phase power.

One (highlighted in red) has ZERO to do with the other, Phase requirements. The OP makes no mention nor query about this "Vector Drive.

But, I could be wrong.

[Donkey Hotey]

One (highlighted in red) has ZERO to do with the other, Phase requirements. The OP makes no mention nor query about this "Vector Drive.

But, I could be wrong.

We've really got to do this? OK:

His question was whether or not his 2008 Minimill needed 3-phase power. Haas only uses two power management schemes in that era machine.

Vector Drive machines are high-current consumers and need 3-phase power to supply clean 320V DC. The Vector Drive both runs the spindle and supplies 320V DC power to the rest of the amplifiers. Therefore, if his machine has a box that says "Vector Drive" he can be assured that it needs 3-phase power.

The lower-current machines like the TM/TL series and--evidently--the Minimilll, use a 320V power supply in place of the Vector Drive. All it does is provide 320V DC to the rest of the machine (it's just a box with a bridge rectifier and capacitors). The spindle gets run by an amplifier, just like another axis. In the lower-current machines, the capacitors in that power supply do an adequate job of smoothing the AC ripple and they are therefore setup and rated by Haas to run on single-phase power. So--logically--if the box DOES NOT say "Vector Drive" the machine will run on single-phase power or 3-phase--it doesn't care.

[Machineit]

Yup, you will need a phase converter if it is not single phase, rotary not static. A 20 hp will be fine, I run my VF-2 on one right now. The one listed below is from ebay and the shipping is free. The specs on it say +-2%, which will be fine too.

My first one I built myself and ran a whole shop with it for years, it was 30 hp. My current one I bought off of ebay.

They are easy to set up and run pretty quite.

If you have any further questions, just ask.

20 HP Rotary Phase Converter - CNC / Heavy Duty - eBay (item 310286988906 end time Jan-20-11 07:42:37 PST)

Cheers---Mike

[Donkey Hotey]

Yup, you will need a phase converter if it is not single phase

Whoa, whoa, he's got a minimill, not a VF. The power supply strategy is different in the smaller machines.

Does it have a chip auger? Does anybody remember if the Haas chip auger is 3-phase or single-phase?

[Eritex Inc.]

Whoa, whoa, he's got a minimill, not a VF. The power supply strategy is different in the smaller machines.

Does it have a chip auger? Does anybody remember if the Haas chip auger is 3-phase or single-phase?

Yes, it has the chip auger, probe, coolant, macros, rotation, rigid tapping...

I need to pull out the invoice to see all the options I had installed.

[haastec]

Follow the link for the mini mill manual addendum on the Haas website.

Haas Automation Inc. - CNC - Customer Service - Operator Manual Update

There is a section for installation that describes how to hook up to either 3 phase or single. Your machine will run fine on either one.

Good luck on the move.

[helix77]

I would get the phase converter... it is cheaper to run. the rule of thumb i was told is always double the horsepower needed when you buy the converter i.e... mini mill hp (non super)= 7.5.. so buy a 15hp

[underthetire]

Thats not always true. It will take power to run the phase converter. I'd bet it equals out.

[HelicopterJohn]

If it were me I would contact HAAS and make sure you get the correct information. It is a toll free call and can easily set your mind at ease.

I have a 2007 HAAS TM-1P with the 7.5 spindle motor 6000 rpm. I was told I could hook mine up either on 3 phase or single phase. I chose to hook mine up with single phase and it has worked perfect for me. I took a few pictures of my wiring in my cabinet a few weeks ago for a friend of mine. I will share them so you can get an idea how mine was wired for single phase operation. Of course you should get a licensed electrician to hook up your machine and follow the appropriate HAAS wiring schematic.

I too, do a some (over 1000 holes) rigid multi level tapping with a 3mm X 0.5 form tap in 6061 T6 aluminum and it works fine for me.

I have a home-built rotary phase converter that I use for other 3 phase equipment in my home shop. However, I decided not to purchase a phase converter as this was the only 3 phase piece of equipment I intended to purchase that would require a phase converter larger than the one I currently have.

The reason for my decision was that it would take a bunch of electric bills with substantial savings in each one of them to ever pay for the phase converter. Mine is a small garage workshop and I don't run my machine daily. Your mileage may differ as to your decision on whether or not to purchase a phase converter. i.e. how many machines you have that may need 3 phase current.

Good luck on your move and new home. Wish you the best of luck.

John

[nwrepair1]

From an electrician: It will take a max of 25 amps for 3 phase or a max of 40 amps single phase. I read that label as convertable from 3 phase to single phase, but you should check with Haas.

[mactec54]

Eritex Inc.

It will run just fine 220/240 single Phase, the Mini Mills run both single or 3 phase
You need to run a 60amp 220/240 single phase supply

So you don't need a phase converter

If you were going to get a phase converter, Get a Phase-Perfect, they are the best & most efficient to run, but cost more to buy

There are no draw backs to running it on single phase

[HuFlungDung]

Vector drive is not a Haas term, I think Baldor also used it. And it does not use the spindle encoder for feedback because the feedback encoder needs to run at 1:1 with the motor (rather than the spindle). This encoder is not monitoring position but rpm, so that the current being fed to the motor can be ramped up or down to force the motor to run exactly at commanded rpm. And the low rpm, high torque performance is a lot better with a vector drive. This is due to the closed loop feedback.

Less expensive non-vector drives 'guess' at the spindle rpm, and are not as accurate at maintaining an exact commanded rpm. Witness that my older Haas (without vector drive) also has a spindle encoder for rigid tapping, but does not run exactly at commanded rpm.

[RevEdo]

And the low rpm, high torque performance is a lot better with a vector drive. This is due to the closed loop feedback.

Interesting. How in the world would low rpm high tourque applications benefit from this "vectoring". Being just a dumb handle crank machinist and even dumber 20 year machine tool sales vet, I would think any effect, if at all, "vectoring" or feedback of the spindle rpm would be useless at low torque and MAY be beneficial at high rpms with respect to chip load and maybe tool life.
Not saying you are wrong, just don't understand the benefit.
Could the staff here maybe move this discussion to it's own thread. I'd like to know to better inform my customers.

Thanx for all the input regarding my hijack and apologies to the OP.