[G59]

LOL.
It's a hobby machine.............so why all the arguing and heavy discussions about efficiency etc, etc.........
It's a hobby machine,( and yes, I got it the first time I was told, right Louis).......... which means you have all the time in the world to f**k around changing tools and making the perfect setups. blah, blah, blah, boring, boring, boring.
An ATC? You guys are just being unrealistic and ridiculous.
Just a week ago, some of you were telling me acceleration isn't that important because this little machine, was never planned as a "for production machine", but now there's talk of a high speed spindle and possibly an ATC, more power, better tooling selection...................?
I can't take this anymore....this is just too weird.

I'm almost at the point of unsubscribing from this thread as I really have nothing good to contribute towards it at this point.

Ian, your taking things way too seriously. No one here says your dumb or is even undermining your experience. You however seem to be so entranced into defending yourself, you sometimes don't make sense.
Just slow down and wait for your machine. Relax. If you have to comment on stuff just to keep you occupied because your bored, do it in the global warming thread where everyone admits they know squat.

You know, I laugh at people that have done things a certain way for years and one day, some new guy shows him how to do it in a better more efficient way. It's not that the old way was bad, it's just that it was the wrong way to do things.

Have a good day.

[louieatienza]

G59, I ordered my machine with a high speed spindle. I also ordered it sans electronics, since I will be fitting my machine with my own (that I'm testing now.) I also have the means to program my machine efficiently. While it is mainly a hobby, it has more than funded itself. Heck, my CAM system costs more than this machine. There are also some special ordered tidbits I won't discuss until I'm up and running. The machine is simply a means to an end.

Unfortunately for my friend Ian, the machine is the end. I almost feel he'd be satisfied just jogging the machine around and swapping tools. He'll have this highly configured machine, and sit in front of it figuring out how to use it or what to use it for. And for him this may be the ultimate satisfaction. Like a trailer queen classic car that is tended to constantly but never sees pavement. I get that.

I was actually waiting to see how Ian would design an implement his power drawbar actuator, which would had been woefully inadequate.

Ian it takes literally seconds to pop an ER collet out of an ER nut. If you lack the dexterity you could simply puchase a nut for each collet you use. It took me just as much time to make a touch off plate that can easily be automated in Mach3. In practice I rarely use it since re-zeroing manually goes faster for me than digging out the touch plate.

And yes, you could never have enough tooling... if you use all the tooling you have. A lot of what I'm doing lately involves 1/8" and 1/16" endmills. Conveniently all the endmills I have smaller than 1/8" have 1/8" shanks, I believe that's standard. The 1/16" bit can be fragile as I need 1/4" depth and my router is not the most ridgid. It's the type of work I hope to offload to my upcoming mill.

[Skyfire]

Skyfire,
Do you think you will sell the electric/air power drawbar soon?

Hi asuratman,

Yes, I think it will be another stuff for sale very soon once I tested the electric power drawbar work well with the spindle. Air cylinder system has been tested no problem..We are dealing with pneumatic components business locally too and have many resources to make air cylinder devices. I should need to develop some simple relay control board to control the DC motor of the electric actor. It has two limit switches inside and I should use them to control motor ON/OFF and act directions. Once the electric power drawbar successful I will put it on my website.

Defeng

[Skyfire]

Hi D......I hadn't realised that so much force was necessary to hold and release the tooling in the spindle with the ISO taper system and retainer pull plugs.

I had always assumed you only needed a large amount of force when TTS type tooling is to be retained and released etc, as that is all that keeps the TTS tooling in the collet and prevents draw down.

I'll wait until you post the results for your system.

LOL.......forgive me, I'm going to be cheeky now.........I suppose a rudimentary ATC can be had by using the end of the table to have a magazine with about 6 tools in a 3X2 block in it........ but possibly that would be a waste of time if more are needed, but if the space can be sacrificed, that would be awesome.
Ian.

Hi Ian,
Anyway larger releasing force is not a bad thing for ISO20 spindle ..lol 700lbs may work too but it's not very reliable and 2:1 lever device may make the power drawbar system more complex and add weight.

R8 QTC system like TTS truely need much bigger holding force to prevent tool drop or rotate itself in the collet. That's why I did some developments on my R8 QTC system. I will organize some R8 QTC pictures and drawings to explain this soon.

About the easy ATC methods.. It could be done but will lose many work area..lol But it's not a bad idea to lean how such in-line ATC works. A good try anyway for a CNC beginner!

Defeng

[handlewanker]

Hi D......that sounds promising.....I hope it's compact enough to sit on top of the head without being too obtrusive.

Louie, if I just want to sit all day and gaze in awe at the machine when it arrives, too timid or confused to switch it on, and just flick a duster over it to maintain the paint work in pristine condition, assuming that is that I like to have museum pieces and not actual working horses.......that is my prerogative, but far from the truth, it will be used to make parts for hobbies and various projects that are just too tedious to do with my manual mill, and like driving a car.....you have to start somewhere.

I opted to have a variety of functions specifically to extend the envelope to it's greatest capability, and maximise the scope that the SVM-0 is capable of......it's a pocket battleship, make no error.

Who cares if the ATC function is a long shot.......if it works it'll save having to keep stopping to change over tools once the program has been established.....one offs are not what CNC is all about.

Oh yeah, changing tools.......I hate having to change tools with an ER32 collet chuck, ( I have one on my manual mill) despite your stopwatch idea that it only takes a few seconds to do a changeover.......it's very tedious, otherwise I'd have settled for the ER32 spindle and gnashed my teeth at the thought that with hindsight I could have had the ISO20 spindle with a power draw bar and tool changing at the press of a button........which is what I planned for and am going to have.

Sometimes you have to look far ahead and see where you're going to go before you commit to the starting point.

One things for sure.....all those with faint hearts, let them begone, and Gentlemen in England abed will think themselves accursed they were not one of us, and hold their manhoods cheap when any speaks of the SVM-0 and it's brothers.........sorry Shakespear, Henry 5th is my favourite play.

BTW, for anyone aspiring to be an SVM-0 owner.....if you order your SVM-0 now you'll get the basic model from stock.... when the stock builds up, but to get real and have a ball you should have ordered months ago and got one with all the extra noodles and gravy as it takes time to do a custom job....LOL.
Ian.

[handlewanker]

LOL.
It's a hobby machine.............so why all the arguing and heavy discussions about efficiency etc, etc.........
It's a hobby machine,( and yes, I got it the first time I was told, right Louis).......... which means you have all the time in the world to f**k around changing tools and making the perfect setups. blah, blah, blah, boring, boring, boring.
An ATC? You guys are just being unrealistic and ridiculous.
Just a week ago, some of you were telling me acceleration isn't that important because this little machine, was never planned as a "for production machine", but now there's talk of a high speed spindle and possibly an ATC, more power, better tooling selection...................?
I can't take this anymore....this is just too weird.

I'm almost at the point of unsubscribing from this thread as I really have nothing good to contribute towards it at this point.

Ian, your taking things way too seriously. No one here says your dumb or is even undermining your experience. You however seem to be so entranced into defending yourself, you sometimes don't make sense.
Just slow down and wait for your machine. Relax. If you have to comment on stuff just to keep you occupied because your bored, do it in the global warming thread where everyone admits they know squat.

You know, I laugh at people that have done things a certain way for years and one day, some new guy shows him how to do it in a better more efficient way. It's not that the old way was bad, it's just that it was the wrong way to do things.

Have a good day.

Sorry G59, been that way for 50 years or so.....ain't gonna change to please nobody......I like doing my own thing, always.....if you think constantly changing tools with an ER32 chuck is fun, you're a masochist.
Ian.

[Skyfire]

LOL.
It's a hobby machine.............so why all the arguing and heavy discussions about efficiency etc, etc.........
It's a hobby machine,( and yes, I got it the first time I was told, right Louis).......... which means you have all the time in the world to f**k around changing tools and making the perfect setups. blah, blah, blah, boring, boring, boring.
An ATC? You guys are just being unrealistic and ridiculous.
Just a week ago, some of you were telling me acceleration isn't that important because this little machine, was never planned as a "for production machine", but now there's talk of a high speed spindle and possibly an ATC, more power, better tooling selection...................?
I can't take this anymore....this is just too weird.

Hi G59,
I think I should say something about SVM-0 here. I prefer it to be a "hobby size machine" than a "hobby machine". There are dozens of hobby machines out there now---many famous and classic brands already. If SVM-0 created only as another hobby machine, It will be probably only a DIY prototype for myself. Maybe I will feel excited to do that if I'm a CNC hobby beginner..lol The real condition is that I want to do this some differently especially it goes commercial now. I want SVM-0 more than a hobby machine but art and a real piece to handle real works as a real CNC. So most important features are considered as industrial machines and some others keep hobby machine style.

People can take SVM-0 as a hobby machine because it's more than enough for a hobby machine but hobby price..And people want to use SVM-0 as an efficient and reliable tool to earn money with small productions..it will do that also. I will never hate to dig more and more from a machine..Now SVM-0 becomes a toy for fun A multi-role machine..why not? That's what I'm thinking.

Thanks,

Defeng

[louieatienza]

Hi D......that sounds promising.....I hope it's compact enough to sit on top of the head without being too obtrusive.

Louie, if I just want to sit all day and gaze in awe at the machine when it arrives, too timid or confused to switch it on, and just flick a duster over it to maintain the paint work in pristine condition, assuming that is that I like to have museum pieces and not actual working horses.......that is my prerogative, but far from the truth, it will be used to make parts for hobbies and various projects that are just too tedious to do with my manual mill, and like driving a car.....you have to start somewhere.

I opted to have a variety of functions specifically to extend the envelope to it's greatest capability, and maximise the scope that the SVM-0 is capable of......it's a pocket battleship, make no error.

Who cares if the ATC function is a long shot.......if it works it'll save having to keep stopping to change over tools once the program has been established.....one offs are not what CNC is all about.

Oh yeah, changing tools.......I hate having to change tools with an ER32 collet chuck, ( I have one on my manual mill) despite your stopwatch idea that it only takes a few seconds to do a changeover.......it's very tedious, otherwise I'd have settled for the ER32 spindle and gnashed my teeth at the thought that with hindsight I could have had the ISO20 spindle with a power draw bar and tool changing at the press of a button........which is what I planned for and am going to have.

Sometimes you have to look far ahead and see where you're going to go before you commit to the starting point.

One things for sure.....all those with faint hearts, let them begone, and Gentlemen in England abed will think themselves accursed they were not one of us, and hold their manhoods cheap when any speaks of the SVM-0 and it's brothers.........sorry Shakespear, Henry 5th is my favourite play.

BTW, for anyone aspiring to be an SVM-0 owner.....if you order your SVM-0 now you'll get the basic model from stock.... when the stock builds up, but to get real and have a ball you should have ordered months ago and got one with all the extra noodles and gravy as it takes time to do a custom job....LOL.
Ian.

I know you think everyone here is against you. That is not the case. There are posters here I have the utmost respect for and they speak from the practical experience of the CNC world. Why not absorb some of the knowledge they possess instead of dismissing them? If you have valud arguments you don't need to invoke Shakespeare, The Wright brothers, and Edison to prove them.

Regarding tool changes, I don't understand what the point of saving two minutes is, if you intend to use the most inefficient of toolpath strategies?

I don't there's much debate that the SVM-0 has the potential of being a very capable machine. My point is, if you don't start now learning the controller software and some g code or CAM, you've wasted your time. Doing this after receipt of your machine will put you behind the 8 ball, they say here. That's like buying a Ferrari and not knowing how to use a clutch. And they don't make them with automatics!

One ongoing conract I have is making "lofted" lettering for a memorial wall. Of course every single name will be different and require different programs. But the strategy is the same - roughing with a 1/8" endmill followed by finishing with a 1/16" endmill. In 7075 aluminum. My measly router table does the job, and there's exactly one tool change. But because of rhe font I need to hold the part down strategically and reposition some clamps between programs. So every name requires different clamping. I've done one off truck and car logos in 3D, acoustic and electric guitar parts in metal, wood, and bone; handicap accessible signage; custom instrument panels... even made a few smaller CNC routers for some friends. Point is, I think I've made way more one off and small run parts than I have larger scale runs.

For my machine I predict 99% of what I cut will be aluminium. And I plan on leveraging the high speed spindle to its fullest.

No one is saying an ATC is a long shot. But I think you have a long, long way to fo before that point.

[Skyfire]

lol.. I'm sure there is no against things here.. The only subject is about the best way to do something as I can see. We are all trying to do the right thing here and of course,,"in my way" may be the most concern. I'll do my best to make sure Ian receiving a really good big toy..lol

Ian, Here is your SVM-0 condition now. motors and limit/home sensors, drivers etc. are all in position. Next will be controller box section. Next works may get a little slower because I'm waiting for the new pulleys for ISO20 spindle. I had ordered from a pulley supplier before but found big radial runout so I threw them. I hope the new ones will be ok. And when I look at the machine head.. I just pray it will not look too weird after installing the electric power drawbar.

Attachment 276388 Attachment 276390

[inov8r]

This thread has been a source of entertainment to me for quite some time now. As I am sure it has for others. I am happy to have it back on the air for another season. I was one of those who through that after such a long hiatus, renewal was a long shot. In any case, Ian is an integral part of this production. He has a vested interest. At this point you could no more remove him from the picture than you could do away with Ron Swanson or Archy Bunker from there respective rolls. Not saying being compared to these characters is bad, just that all three are very entertaining and very opinionated, that's all I'm saying. So for the rest of us Meatheads in this production, we can put our 2 cents in,and we should, but just know that it could get a little frustrating at times but I'm pretty sure it won't be boring and will more than likely be highly entertaining. I am kinda thinking we should have a cast party at the home of whoever gets the first skyfire delivered.

[rustyh]

I know you think everyone here is against you. That is not the case. There are posters here I have the utmost respect for and they speak from the practical experience of the CNC world. Why not absorb some of the knowledge they possess instead of dismissing them? If you have valud arguments you don't need to invoke Shakespeare, The Wright brothers, and Edison to prove them.

Very very very well said

Although, know it all's only learn from there own mistakes
When I dont my mechanical engineering degree, the biggest and most important thing I learnt out of everything I done, was to research, read and learn from others.

[jips]

Defeng? Can you give us a timeline of the ongoing svm-X production : first delivery / batch number waiting / delay for a new purchase / production time capacity (alibaba delivery time is 3weeks) etc... in order to make all clear for every one . Thanks

[LeeWay]

Small precise machines are used a lot in watch and jewelry making. They need not be large, but must be rigid and accurate. Those machines can cost a lot of money as well and if your little machine competes with those, it would be more than a hobby machine for sure. Similar in machine size to the one Arie made here I think. I think he makes watches with his. You won't be doing that on an X3 hobby class machine.

[handlewanker]

Yep Louie, I agree with your point of view somewhat......having a lot to learn doesn't equate to being totally unknowledgeable, but time will tell and I'm absorbing info like a sponge......it won't happen today etc etc.....but it's gonna happen, of that you can bet your boots on.

I prefer criticism to praise.....it's the highest form of truth you can have.....anyone can voice criticism, you only have to decide if it's valid.

BTW.......it's not a time thing with the power draw bar, QCT, ATC that I subscribe to etc......it's the time consuming frustration of removing tooling from chucks etc where you can just press a button and the tool and holder drops out thing, and also gets put back in thing, with the tools already set......that's the way I like it and I won't settle for anything less, or CNC is not for me.

Another thing, a lot of the work I anticipate doing will be in a vice, 125mm wide jaws etc, and that is centralised,......the table is 450mm long if I remember rightly, so the prospect of a bit of table sacrifice for the joy of a possible ATC is a prize to be sought after.......might not be practical, but .....whatever.

I'm into steam engines, that is steam trains, and the parts are small and in addition I have many "inventions" I want to pursue, so as I said......I looked deeply into the crystal ball and saw what I wanted to see.

I think Defeng hit the nail on the head........the SVM-0 is a sophisticated machine in all respects, well geared to the economy of the hobby cause but at the same time, with all the bells and whistles.......a thoroughbred for really serious work loads.
Ian.

[jips]

Another question for mr Defeng : have you obtain your CE for European shipment ? Because without the only option is shipping the machine without the electronic on it , if i remember right!

[Skyfire]

I know you think everyone here is against you. That is not the case. There are posters here I have the utmost respect for and they speak from the practical experience of the CNC world. Why not absorb some of the knowledge they possess instead of dismissing them? If you have valud arguments you don't need to invoke Shakespeare, The Wright brothers, and Edison to prove them.

Regarding tool changes, I don't understand what the point of saving two minutes is, if you intend to use the most inefficient of toolpath strategies?

I don't there's much debate that the SVM-0 has the potential of being a very capable machine. My point is, if you don't start now learning the controller software and some g code or CAM, you've wasted your time. Doing this after receipt of your machine will put you behind the 8 ball, they say here. That's like buying a Ferrari and not knowing how to use a clutch. And they don't make them with automatics!

One ongoing conract I have is making "lofted" lettering for a memorial wall. Of course every single name will be different and require different programs. But the strategy is the same - roughing with a 1/8" endmill followed by finishing with a 1/16" endmill. In 7075 aluminum. My measly router table does the job, and there's exactly one tool change. But because of rhe font I need to hold the part down strategically and reposition some clamps between programs. So every name requires different clamping. I've done one off truck and car logos in 3D, acoustic and electric guitar parts in metal, wood, and bone; handicap accessible signage; custom instrument panels... even made a few smaller CNC routers for some friends. Point is, I think I've made way more one off and small run parts than I have larger scale runs.

For my machine I predict 99% of what I cut will be aluminium. And I plan on leveraging the high speed spindle to its fullest.

No one is saying an ATC is a long shot. But I think you have a long, long way to fo before that point.

Thanks for your latest great comments here Louie. I think we all can see you have great experiences there.

[Skyfire]

This thread has been a source of entertainment to me for quite some time now. As I am sure it has for others. I am happy to have it back on the air for another season. I was one of those who through that after such a long hiatus, renewal was a long shot. In any case, Ian is an integral part of this production. He has a vested interest. At this point you could no more remove him from the picture than you could do away with Ron Swanson or Archy Bunker from there respective rolls. Not saying being compared to these characters is bad, just that all three are very entertaining and very opinionated, that's all I'm saying. So for the rest of us Meatheads in this production, we can put our 2 cents in,and we should, but just know that it could get a little frustrating at times but I'm pretty sure it won't be boring and will more than likely be highly entertaining. I am kinda thinking we should have a cast party at the home of whoever gets the first skyfire delivered.

Thank you inov8r. I'm sure the first GO will not be long from now.

[inov8r]

Small precise machines are used a lot in watch and jewelry making. They need not be large, but must be rigid and accurate. Those machines can cost a lot of money as well and if your little machine competes with those, it would be more than a hobby machine for sure. Similar in machine size to the one Arie made here I think. I think he makes watches with his. You won't be doing that on an X3 hobby class machine.

Exactly! If this machine will perform with a Minitech minimill 3 class machine, then I am definitely interested.

[jips]

Exactly! If this machine will perform with a Minitech minimill 3 class machine, then I am definitely interested.

Same

[handlewanker]

lol.. I'm sure there is no against things here.. The only subject is about the best way to do something as I can see. We are all trying to do the right thing here and of course,,"in my way" may be the most concern. I'll do my best to make sure Ian receiving a really good big toy..lol

Ian, Here is your SVM-0 condition now. motors and limit/home sensors, drivers etc. are all in position. Next will be controller box section. Next works may get a little slower because I'm waiting for the new pulleys for ISO20 spindle. I had ordered from a pulley supplier before but found big radial runout so I threw them. I hope the new ones will be ok. And when I look at the machine head.. I just pray it will not look too weird after installing the electric power drawbar.

Attachment 276388 Attachment 276390

Hi D.......I'm getting quite excited.....big kid with new toys etc.....love the colour scheme.

Pity about the pulley problem.....I use the taper lock system for pulleys with the poly vee belts as they can be mounted without having to use force fits etc.

How will the power draw bar cylinder look and be mounted when it's on the top.........a cylinder on short stand offs etc?

It'll need a pretty firm mounting to resist the up pressure when it pushes down.

My original design for a DIY power draw bar called for a short lever clamped around the top of the spindle body where it sticks out of the head casting, giving a 10:1 ratio activated by a small hydraulic cylinder about 20mm diam, short stroke.

The hydro power was to come from a solenoid pump giving a one shot hydraulic thrust to the cylinder.

But......the strength of the holding force is something I didn't anticipate would need to be so big.

If the electric cylinder is as compact as you say, that would do the trick neatly.
Ian.