[Snooper911]

Hi all why are these company's allowed to go on selling these machines when you know before you get them
that they don't work is there not a body that can regulate the sell of these machines, I have read a lot of threads
on this form about them and the majority seem to have poor electric.:banana:

[mactec54]

Hi all why are these company's allowed to go on selling these machines when you know before you get them
that they don't work is there not a body that can regulate the sell of these machines, I have read a lot of threads
on this form about them and the majority seem to have poor electric.:banana:

If everyone in the world would stop buying them, just may be they would get the message and wire them to a correct standard

[A_Camera]

Hi all why are these company's allowed to go on selling these machines when you know before you get them
that they don't work is there not a body that can regulate the sell of these machines, I have read a lot of threads
on this form about them and the majority seem to have poor electric.:banana:

There is a simple solution... Don't buy cheap. There is no need for new laws, you supposed to be adult, nobody is forcing you to buy those machines, or whatever you want to complain about.

Price is very often connected to quality, not to the country where it is made. "Made in China" is not a quality indicator but the price tag is. Anyone believing otherwise is very naive and dreaming. What I don't understand is how can people buy cheap eBay stuff and then complain about wiring, electrical connections, accuracy and general build quality. What do you expect? Should they produce top quality for peanuts? They are ALREADY working for peanuts under conditions you are not willing to work one single day.

So, stop ranting and open your wallet a bit more and you will get quality.

[jcarpenter2]

CNC is a niche market. If everyone would buy one for their home, the price for quality would come down. But, that's not going to happen so you either pay for the quality machines or you pay for the cheap machines and suffer through them. We surely don't need more regulation. My one concern I've seen (being new and just building or upgrading should I say) is with the water cooled spindle I bought. It receives three phase 240 but had no ground going to the spindle and to me that is a very unsafe practice.

Having traveled the world though, I recall seeing a few individuals welding up a project in one of my many traveled countries. They did not have an extension cord long enough to where they were working and decided to use a board with two nails to supply power to their welder. The welders 240 wires led to the board and each leg was wrapped around a nail hammered into the board. When they needed power they would connect the extension cord (plug removed) two wires to those same nails and hence had power to their welder. Talk about redneck and unsafe

[Fixittt]

I will chime in here, the internet is a wonderful thing. You can research products before you buy. Informed decisions are always best. I bought my cheap router knowing full well what it was, and what it was not. I also have the means and capabilities to rework it and make it what I need without the initial outlay of money. Something I do not have alot of as a small business owner. Do I regret buying my "NOODLE ROUTER"? Ohh heck no. I put in alot of work to it, but I have so much fun with it. I am able to do projects that my tiny desktop cnc mill just cant.

There is enough information out there to educate a customer on what to get and what not to get.

[kb0nly]

I for one am glad these cheap machines are available! Are they perfect? NO... Do they work? Most of them at least mostly function out of the box. Are they repairable and upgrade capable? Definitely yes!!

I have a chinese 3020T that i use for milling PCB's, it was pretty darn good out of the box, added a UC100 motion controller, did a little wiring correction on it, and its been solid and reliable. I also have a chinese made CO2 laser now as well, worked ok out of the box, works friggin awesome now after a couple days worth of tinkering in my spare time.

All in all between those two machines i saved thousands of dollars by doing it myself. I also have a couple chinese 3d printers that are clones of the Makerbot, decent enough, need a little tinkering, but they work just as good after at a tiny fraction of the cost. I have Makerbot's as well, side by side they can do the same job so no complaints.

Without the cheap chinese version of things the originals they reproduce would get so far out of hand price wise only big companies could afford them, or taking out a second mortgage on the house.

[tgdavies]

As others have said, I'm glad that governments don't force CNC manufacturers to make only perfect machines which I couldn't afford.

I own a 6040, and after reading these forums I decided to buy it 'body only' and also purchase a G540 and a power supply. It works very well, for the money.

I do wish that there was more variety of Chinese machines -- e.g. something wit the envelope of a 3020 with more rigidity, for the price of a 6040 -- there doesn't seem to be anything much between a $2500 6040 and an $7000 Tormach

[victorofga]

Chinese machines are cheap because they fill up the demand of market..

praised brands are not made for the demand of market..

stopping Chinese machines for sale, likely you stop selling drug.. as we can see law just didn't made it..

since market is free... countries can sell across around earth..

if we could stop something, I would stop indeed the foreign cars flooding USA..

I could write a long analysis about BMW ""quality""" as my step daughter has one..
neither 100K mile nor 3 years works.. the quality in my opinion way back behind the cheapest dodge neon...

well, mightbe dodge neon made too high standard..

and the funniest is they started to importing miniature cars.. they are looking like a zero turn lawn mover on steroids.. a real danger on interstates..

the bottom line is, if I have to buy from abroad then I buy the cheapest... they are not American so they are same..

[A_Camera]

Chinese machines are cheap because they fill up the demand of market..

praised brands are not made for the demand of market..

stopping Chinese machines for sale, likely you stop selling drug.. as we can see law just didn't made it..

since market is free... countries can sell across around earth..

if we could stop something, I would stop indeed the foreign cars flooding USA..

I could write a long analysis about BMW ""quality""" as my step daughter has one..
neither 100K mile nor 3 years works.. the quality in my opinion way back behind the cheapest dodge neon...

well, mightbe dodge neon made too high standard..

and the funniest is they started to importing miniature cars.. they are looking like a zero turn lawn mover on steroids.. a real danger on interstates..

the bottom line is, if I have to buy from abroad then I buy the cheapest... they are not American so they are same..

Very strange opinion, you have really mixed up everything into a huge mess. You bottom line is "Buy American"... so 1940-1950-isch...

[victorofga]

its not strange... :-)
I just didn't elaborate..

in my meaning if theres a real option to choose then I buy American..

like cars, or appliances..

tv, I cant really..
for cnc router also not a lot option I could find....

as I said, if I have to buy foreign, then immediately any of them same, and I choose the cheapest..

[A_Camera]

its not strange... :-)
I just didn't elaborate..

in my meaning if theres a real option to choose then I buy American..

like cars, or appliances..

tv, I cant really..
for cnc router also not a lot option I could find....

as I said, if I have to buy foreign, then immediately any of them same, and I choose the cheapest.

...that's exactly what I meant. It shows how little you know, but as long as you are happy...

Never the less, that exact philosophy is what builds and maintains your narrow vision. If you ALWAYS buy the cheapest foreign products you will NEVER learn anything except that what's cheap is crap (though that is true even if it is American). Also, when you buy American... have it ever occurred you that probably 90% of the parts found in that American super car are foreign made? Or you really think that every part is Made in USA?

[aarggh]

Given that even cnc machines now are a commodity to a certain extent, why spend more than needed unnecessarily?

The Chinese machines fill a gap no other manufacturer occupies, at a price level no-one would even attempt to match.

The days of not knowing how crap the controllers are is long in the past, and anyone who does even the tiniest bit of homework before buying one knows to either be a tightwad and spend week/months trying to make silk purse out of a pigs ear with the supplied controller, or in the case of the ones who come to their senses quickly, they just factor in a G540.

It still works out an amazing bargain, so I don't understand how people wouldn't see the attraction of a great designed machine with good mechanics, albeit with a crappy controller in most cases, for a ridiculously low cost?

cheers, Ian

[dharmic]

Interesting to see the "BUY MURRICAN" sentiment still rages strong in the US of A.

It used to be similar here in Oz. Nowadays, not so much. I think people here have realised the big difference between Aussie made vs Asian made is nothing but the cost of labour. You can buy great or utterly crap Australian stuff, fantastic or ****e Chinese stuff depending on where you go, the only real difference is that the crap Aussie stuff will be twice or more the price of the great Chinese stuff. And most of the time "Made in Australia" means "final assembly in Australia from Chinese made parts" anyway.

We still get the "Buy local" chest thumping here, of course, but it seems to only come from local manufacturers and resellers trying to guilt us into supporting their unrealistic margins and costs of staff.

[A_Camera]

I have nothing against "buy local" mentality, in fact, I think it is good to support local dealers, manufacturers or your own country, but it is a pretty narrow minded view to say that everything "foreign" is the same sh!t so one might as well buy the cheapest. In reality, it is the price that makes it sh!t, not the fact that it is foreign made. "Cheap" is also relative, cheap from China is not the same as cheap from Sweden, USA or Australia.

[victorofga]

what I believe, first off buy everything with your eyes.. not with your ear..

it means, I can listen anyone speaks up for a product, however I going to buy what I see meet with my expectation..

you right, made in XXXXXX doesn't mean it made on that geological location..

the words quality and crap they are pending on what you compare too.. and what points you take into account..

we will step forward, when folks will realize the Chinese product is for your challenge, make better, in the real meaning..
but most time I hear how great one product but see no pictures next each other, to compare immediately..

I was also wandering around the ""support"" on a product.. however your real support is your knowledge..
when you can see how you can keep functioning..
when I could came over on this ""scare tactic support mumbo jumbo"" I found the great support would mean some time longer time than importing a new one..

also most time the warranty means what manufacturer added, in this case welding a frame and bolting rails..
all other is almost never happen.. but you can hear the excuses... why they don't replace your stuff...


best example the tb6560 driver boards.. everyone says it doesn't work... versus Chinese producing thoushands of..
and...
on the forum a couple of talented guy tracked down what is the real issue.. and it works..

================================================== ===============

while I like much the local folks producing veggie, however I prefer walmart..
the stuff looking just always about freshly brought in..

[aarggh]

best example the tb6560 driver boards.. everyone says it doesn't work... versus Chinese producing thoushands of..
and...
on the forum a couple of talented guy tracked down what is the real issue.. and it works..

No they didn't fix the board, they just tarted it up with work arounds to get the board working better than it was. The board as supplied by Ebay sellers is fundamentally an inferior product, poorly designed and made with a very inferior and unsuitable IC for the role it ships in. It will never be able to compare to the likes of a G540 no matter how much time and effort is spent on it. But it's cheap, even if it's garbage, so people persist as that's just human nature.

Even a stopped clock is correct twice a day, same goes with these boards, they can be made to work, after a fashion, but they'll always be an inferior product.

For the extremely small number of people who managed to get their boards going, and to a degree solved the inherent noise and signal issues, and then solved the consequent resonance issues, and the speed/torque issues, and the very specific power up/down sequence, they may be happy as they have nothing to compare it to. But if they were given the opportunity to try a G540 in it's place, would likely never be able to go back to a TB6560 based board.

If the diff in my car is noisy, I could put some sawdust in it to mask the noise and make it seem to work well, but it hasn't solved the problem that the diff is simply faulty..

cheers, Ian