Read The F***ing Manual
Read The F***ing Manual
I've had nothing but positive experiences with customer support.
We went round & round with my lost Z motion, until it finally clicked that I was still running MACH3, and not PathPilot. :devious:
Their customer support is excellent in my opinion.
Grinning
Path pilot has been the single best overall improvement / upgrade added to my machine! My productivity and machine performance become much better although I had to change my methods and procedures for a couple things the trade off was well worth it. I had to change the way I set offsets during program operation but now new methods are far less error prone.
As for topic of this thread and life in general.
If it was easy every one would do it
My experience has been mixed. Regarding customer service specifically it has been ok. I've had a lot of problems setting up a Slant Pro Lathe and a 770 Mill. Called and emailed customer service several times. They've generally responded quickly and patiently -- and they needed patience because I lost most of mine.
This has been an incredibly frustrating experience for me due to the terrible installation instructions and manufacturing errors. I am an admitted newbie with questions that might be obvious to others, but I'm pretty thorough and careful. And as a newbie I rely heavily on the manuals and try to follow them carefully.
There are mistakes in the manuals, steps out of order, out of date pictures, pictures of different machines. In one case the manual delivered had two incorrect pictures on the same page. I was confused, called and was referred to an updated manual on-line. But it had the same pictures with the word "REPLACE" over it!. I called several times thinking I had done something wrong because things didn't jibe with the pictures or later instructions, but was told I was right and the instructions wrong.
I've also had parts made wrong. Holes in covers the wrong size or in the wrong position. Not once, four times between setting up the mill and lathe! I call thinking I'm doing something wrong and am told I'll have to make that hole a little bigger or slot a little longer. This has dragged on and on. They can't put a one inch rectangle in the right place and I'm supposed to trust them with a .001 inch tolerance?
Now I am almost done with setup, about to finish the full enclosure on the mill. But what do I find? To put the door switch on I have to drill a hole in the side of the controller box. Well how the ---- do I do that with the enclosure on? There is no access. A drill won't fit. Why didn't they say that in one of the very first steps? "In preparation for the door switch wires you will need to drill a 7/8 hole in the side of the controller box." But no. Nothing. No warning. So frustrated. Left for the day. I'll see what I can figure out Monday.
Well I was able to drill a hole for the enclosure switch wiring. Had to get a bit extension and was able to drill from outside the enclosure through the switch access panel.
But I had to call Tormach yet again. After wiring in the enclosure switch, the z-limit switch was always tripped. Evidently when originally assembled the z-limit switch was in backward. This would not normally matter, but several wires were rerouted in adding in the new switch, and the wrong end of the z-axis switch got disconnected. Another time consuming delay.
Jeez!!! I just took a look at Tormach's website as of today for the 1100 the ATC, power drawbar, full enclosure, machinist's vise, & rapidturn are all either backordered or out of stock until the end of the month at the earliest. Is this normal, do they typically run out of everything like this and then reorder or do they try to keep inventory in stock?
Wormwood
Not normal. Tormach has been having abnormal warehousing issues while they convert over to a new system for the past three months.
Rapid Turn is out of stock because there was a manufacturing defect with the original product release (5C spindle was ground wrong), and they are replacing all ones shipped to customers.
Just a note: I bought my machine from one of their distributors (Santa Cruz Electronics in CA... even though I am in WA). John is a great guy, and always easy to get ahold of on the phone, and locally stocks alot of what you need. And he can give you better UPS rates than Tormach.
Tim
Tormach 1100-3, Grizzly G0709 lathe, Clausing 8520 mill, SolidWorks, HSMWorks.
I'm from CA. Good to know.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I followed the site for about 6 months while going through the decision process when I bought my 1100, and of the larger items in your list, the only one that ever showed up out-of-stock was the rapid-turn. This was prior to the later issue with the 5C spindle spec (which they fixed). It seems to sell out fast after each batch is made. I have also seen the 5" machinist vice out of stock a couple of times. Obviously, they build/order the larger items in batches, but they are pretty good about keeping inventory available.
Had good results with them. Just spent a week working out a noisy 770 spindle motor. After quite a few troubleshooting tests they agreed to send a motor. Last second they even sent a VFD in the box just in case and had me send back what I didn't need. You have to work with them as much as possible. They're selling a Chinese machine and trying to provide good service for it all while charging a reasonable price. In my experience they'll work pretty hard for you if you can handle a little patience. They seem like a company full of engineers and tech heads which can be a very good thing at times.
They've also sent me a replacement tool part right away for one that was out of spec. Everything has been fast so far.
Only items I remember being way out of stock when I bought the machine was the 5in cnc vise and 5" parallels. They offered a good price on the machinist vise they had in stock. Went my own way on the vises.
So overall they have been among the better companies I've dealt with in the last few years for shipping and service both.
I'll bet that along with moving warehouses they have grown quite a bit over the last couple years. They've got quite the brand name growth going and a lot of popularity online.
just ordered a few cutting tools. Order placed at around 7 AM central time Monday. Confirmation received around 9 CT. Shipment confirmation, with a tracking number, at 4:30 PM.
Y'know, that's a working day to receive, pick, pack, and ship. OK, it was ALL in stock according to the website, and I paid by card. Can't speak to other experiences or times, but this is typical in my experience.
I've had my SlantPro lathe and a 440 mill for about a year now. Any customer service questions I had were answered promptly and overall I'd rate their desire to stand behind their products a 10/10 and I'd rate their internal administrative systems a 9/10 (only docked a point because their website could use a little more info here and there, but overall it's fine and online ordering is easy).
For installation instructions and documentation I'd give about a 7/10 - definitely not an IKEA paint-by-numbers install on some items, especially for people new to these types of machines... with the only caveat being that the effort and attention to detail seems to be focused on the machines themselves where the tolerances count, but a little lacking when it comes to various miscellaneous attachments, cabinetry, etc.. things not critical to making parts.. It seems sort of expected that if you have to grab an extra fastener from the store, or drill an extra hole here and there, etc. that this is expected. For me it was fine.. but I can understand someone coming to this from perhaps a hobby perspective and expecting a out-of-the-box turnkey system and getting a little hung up on little items that aren't "perfect". This is nit-picking though.. overall I'd buy the machines all over again and they are tremendous value for a home hobby / small job shop / prototyping type of operation.
I also see them trying to improve.. hiring staff, new warehouse, upgrades, new accessories, etc. I like their culture and am willing to relax a need for perfection on every little thing for the bigger picture of a company that stands behind their products and never hesitates to send out a replacement part, etc.
I'll add that I have recently ordered some small parts. Good prices, fast shipping. Nice to see.
An update. The Post Awful was slow to deliver this order; arrived Thursday. Unfortunately, there was a problem. All but a couple of inserts were lost in shipping- so none of the endmills or holders arrived. This was USPS priority mail, so it's insured by the USPS. In my opinion, though, it was a Tormach warehouse error: chunks of steel should not be shipped loose in a padded envelope. Unsurprisingly, somewhere in handling, the tooling ripped out the end of the envelope. A flat rate box would have been a proper choice.
I let Tormach know. They have reshipped all the missing tooling. No charge, no arguments, and no excuses. Just a fast response and complete acceptance of responsibility.
Tormach could have told me to file a claim with the USPS. And, eventually, maybe, I'd have gotten covered. Of course, the mail person put an OBVIOUSLY torn envelope in my box without noting anything, so that's at best problematic- but I might have prevailed. Any other company I deal with- Grainger, MSC, whoever- would have (and in the past actually have) required that I chase the claim with the carrier. The rule is that title passes with delivery to the carrier; that practice is pretty generally accepted, painful as it is.
Instead, Tormach just fixed it. And that's normal behavior for Tormach, not unusual at all in my experience. Literally, legendary customer service.
McMaster-Carr has the same liberal policy as Tormach - they ship out a replacement ASAP. They go one better and seem to have customer support staffed 24/7.The rule is that title passes with delivery to the carrier; that practice is pretty generally accepted, painful as it is.
Good to know.
After several rather poor experiences, I dropped McMaster many years ago. They just didn't want my business, and I be damned if I'm going to force someone to take my money. Time to revisit that, it would seem. I was always pleased with their quality and service; they just didn't seem interested in small accounts. If that has changed, they'll see me again. I will pay for good service and a customer friendly approach. I don't expect a no-questions, customer-is-always-right stance; but the usual "customer-is-a-jerk and a mark to be scalped" standard won't do it either.
Took me 3 weeks to get my replacement pet for my pdb. I was CC'd in what seems to be internal emails. Had one that said part is sitting on my desk after 2 weeks of waiting. I wasn't happy to read that the part was sitting on someone's desk after waiting 2 weeks. Tech support is pretty awesome but this was a first for them.
I sure wish we could all buy under a Co-op's account with Grainger, MSC, or McCarr. Something like a Tormach Users Assoc. a not for profit organization membership that would nego. account discounts etc. we'd still paid with our own money but just under a single account...:stickpoke as an individual, I feel violated everytime I buy something from MSC :violin:
All I have left waiting to ship is a Rapid-turn & some carbide bits, overall. NoW the UPS guy thinks I'm weird having delivered at least one package everyday for the past 7-8 days but he'll get over it. My order in particular was an exception, the stars must have lined up just right as I paid.
Wormwood
Just attended Tormach's CNC Fundamentals Workshop. It was fantastic, especially for a newbie like myself. Hands-on, practical, informative, confidence building, good people. Highly recommend it. I have had my complaints about their installation manuals, and some quality issues on minor parts, but their commitment to customer support and training is among the best. I think they provide tremendous value.