[martinw]

Dear jhowelb,
You really do not get the bigger picture, do you???
Any weather event that might seem to be evidence against "Global Warming" falls into the bucket of "Climate Change" and will be feasted on by the same big snouts and spewed out as further proof. It is, actually, faintly Stalinist.

Ah, well, just enough time for a furtive gasper under the patio heater before the Goon squad knocks on the door....

Best wishes,

Martin

[Geof]

.....Any weather event that might seem to be evidence against "Global Warming" falls into the bucket of "Climate Change" and will be feasted on by the same big snouts and spewed out as further proof. ....

Correct, and furthermore all the severe weather from the late 1940's and into the '50s and even later now is known to obviously be due to Global Warming back then. It must be, because all the people who predicted a new Ice Age, back in the 1970s was it, have been proven wrong.

[xyzdonna]

Here you are using a computer, which means that you use technology. Technology uses science. Science is theory, research is done to prove or disprove theory. If the research provides evidence that does not match the theory [it happens] the theory has to be modified [if appropriate] or discarded completely. A theory is tested by whether it can predict previously unseen behaviour. Naturally, research is done to look for the predicted behaviour. The theory is confirmed or confounded as a result. Science is an iterative process.
This is briefly how science works.

In this respect, climate science is no different from the science of semiconductors that underpins the electronics in the PC or Mac that you are using.

Climate models are part of this. Climate models are quite different from your expressed opinion.

The fact that models have difficulty in modelling ice-melt is because the mechanisms are still not properly understood. Currently the models underestimate melting by a factor of three or so. If it was merely a matter of a little tweaking here and there, then where would the problem be?

Model modification requires SCIENCE! This is why you are wrong!

Very briefly, climate models calculate the climate by incorporating the known behaviour of the various components of the atmosphere and hydrosphere.

I suggest you read the following, it is an introduction:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...ions/#more-442

The following includes more information about climate models.
Spencer Weart's "Discovery of Global Warming" (AIP)
http://www.aip.org/history/climate/index.html

All of these lead to peer-reviewed science.

The rest of your post was not worth commenting upon. No substance, just rant. Why not check your facts first!

Hi totally_screwed,
I spent most of last night reading Spencer Weart's site.
http://www.aip.org/history/climate/index.html
Fascinating and highly readable. Thank you for the citation. Of particular interest was the presence or absence of carbon 14 in the measured CO2. This was used to determine whether or not the carbon was from fossil fuels or not. For a non-scientist such as myself the evidence he has is quite understandable and intriguing. It's a massive amount of information.
Thank you,
xyzdonna

[jhowelb]

Hi totally_screwed,
I spent most of last night reading Spencer Weart's site.
http://www.aip.org/history/climate/index.html
Fascinating and highly readable. Thank you for the citation. Of particular interest was the presence or absence of carbon 14 in the measured CO2. This was used to determine whether or not the carbon was from fossil fuels or not. For a non-scientist such as myself the evidence he has is quite understandable and intriguing. It's a massive amount of information.
Thank you,
xyzdonna

Only interesting to you, it is pseudo-science only intended to make you think you understand and it is a massive amount of koolaid. Bon Appétit!

The problem with the models is the modelers! They are liars looking to line their own pockets!

Your crap STILL ain't selling!

[jhowelb]

Bill: "We Just Have to Slow Down Our Economy" to Fight Global Warming

January 31, 2008 9:26 AM

Former President Bill Clinton was in Denver, Colorado, stumping for his wife yesterday.

In a long, and interesting speech, he characterized what the U.S. and other industrialized nations need to do to combat global warming this way: "We just have to slow down our economy and cut back our greenhouse gas emissions 'cause we have to save the planet for our grandchildren."

At a time that the nation is worried about a recession is that really the characterization his wife would want him making? "Slow down our economy"?

[Rekd]

Bill: "We Just Have to Slow Down Our Economy" to Fight Global Warming

January 31, 2008 9:26 AM

Former President Bill Clinton was in Denver, Colorado, stumping for his wife yesterday.

In a long, and interesting speech, he characterized what the U.S. and other industrialized nations need to do to combat global warming this way: "We just have to slow down our economy and cut back our greenhouse gas emissions 'cause we have to save the planet for our grandchildren."

At a time that the nation is worried about a recession is that really the characterization his wife would want him making? "Slow down our economy"?

I saw that too. What an idiot! (nuts)

[One of Many]

I saw that too. What an idiot! (nuts)

The incredible "no shame" Clinton money Machine at work

And people are willing to put this ilk back in the Whitehouse? The profit from this deal must provide a conscience clearing to the polution it will ultimately create!

DC

[jhowelb]

And all that puts the hammer behind my previous statement...."follow the money"!

Some are willing to destroy us all for their own political and financial gain. Others are just too stupid to see the truth! (Useful idiots in the words of Karl Marx.)

[One of Many]

The notion that it is beneficial since SOME of the funds go to the Clinton foundation as a philanthropic based tax shelter to help aids victims that must not be smart enough to know any better. Which is a result of promiscuity, irresponsibility and moral relativisms Clinton has a known good record on and a common pride in the lefts agenda.

The part that got me laughing in the previous statement, was his suggestion of intentionally killing the economy to slow it and cutting emissions...... for the grandchildren. That is, his suggestion will not impact his own economic out look with lucrative deals that will become an issue for many, many, many, generations beyond grandchildren. One thing remains consistant.........the truth isn't important, image is!

DC

[jhowelb]

t.........the truth isn't important, image is!

DC

Speaking of image, have you LOOKED at him recently? HIV might be more than a cause celeb!

[ImanCarrot]

Aha! we're finaly dong something constructive...


EPA to Mandate Reductions in Emissions from Volcanoes

Emission from volcanoes in the future could be greatly restricted under new rules that are part of the Clean Air Planning Act.
(Mt. St. Helens, Washington State) Under new rules that are part of the Clean Air Planning Act, volcanoes, long responsible for more particulate and sulfur dioxide pollution than all human-caused emissions, might not get a pass any longer.

The volcanic emissions portions of the legislation was finally agreed upon by congressional negotiators after congress decided to allow states in which eruptions occur to come up with their own enforcement mechanisms.

"We realize that it might be difficult for the states to come up with efficient and cost-effective measures for achieving volcanic emission reductions", said EPA Assistant Administrator Dr. Susan Vulcan. "That is why the reduction requirements are implemented gradually over time...only 5% each year".

Dr. Vulcan said that state officials will have a much easier time than some countries will have if the United Nations Volcanic Emissions Negation Treaty (UN-VENT) is ratified. She explained that volcanoes in the United States are not nearly as explosive as volcanoes in other countries. For instance, the eruption of Mt. Pinatubo in the Phillipines in June of 1991 emitted millions of tons of sulfur, a pollution event that is well beyond what can be cleansed by scrubber technology now widely used at coal-fired power plants.

Because of the recent reawakening of the Mt. St. Helens volcano, Washington is likely the first state that will have to abide by the new emission reduction targets if they become law. Several companies have already submitted bids to Washington State to build and install massive "mountain scrubbers" that are expected to remove hundreds of tons of emissions per day during a major eruption.

While the new mountain scrubber technology is expensive, most states with volcanic hazards have indicated that they will increase the state sales tax rate on tobacco products in order to raise the additional revenue necessary to pay for the mountain scrubbers.

[ImanCarrot]

More stuff here...

http://www.ecoenquirer.com/

In fact.. it's probably more accurate and relevant than some of the pseudo science spouted incessantly about global warming (I like the one about polar bears dying from heat exhaustion- that is one BIG bear!).

[One of Many]

Here are a few more interesting reads on the falsehoods of GW.

The First four Pillars

Second Pillars speech"

Third Pillar speech

Fourth Speech


Alarmism reaches a tipping point (3 part speech links at bottom)

I found them all interesting to read. Not as dry as one would think.

DC

[xyzdonna]

Dear Donna,

Never mind all the gently traded insults flowing back and forth on this thread.

You posted this..
Me: Hmmmm, nah, I can pretty much be a *itch in person as well.

As you may remember, I got all overheated about the "ladydog" word being censored in a PM.

OK, I may have a too advanced sense of guilt, but could I just say that "*itch "was not a reference to you personally?? I may have said something about the tenacity of "ladydog" terriers to "dance with your leg" under the table at polite dinner parties, and the inability of the guest to shrug them off, but it was just an analogy. I hope you did not take offence. If you did, I apologise.

I disagree with some of what you say.. but that is the nature of freedom.

Best wishes,

Martin

Hi Martin,
I just came across this post of yours that I had missed. Heavens no, to tell you the truth I missed the whole thing the first time it went around. No, as I've said before I have alligator hyde, nothing bothers me. I do love the dry British wit though, it's a hoot! We had this guy from Britain who worked for us for a while, really funny guy who enthralled us with his stories. We kept him on for the longest time after we found out he couldn't make signs just because he was so much fun. He's back in England now but he did come back over for a friends wedding and dropped by to see us. That was nice.
Take care,
xyzdonna

[martinw]

Dear Donna,

Thank-you for your gracious reply.

Actually, my terrier, a "gentleman dog", as it happens, is quite a Fred Astaire when it comes to leg-dancing.....

BTW, CNCAdmin, will that do.....?


Best wishes,

Martin

[jhowelb]

.

[martinw]

Dear jhowelb,

That's a pretty crappy-looking little wood...

Oh, ooops! Sorry CNCAdmin..

Best wishes,
Martin

[jhowelb]

I'll have you know, sir, that Crapper is a good British name!!!

[martinw]

I'll have you know, sir, that Crapper is a good British name!!!

Dear jhowelb,

Thomas Crapper, leaving aside his excellent man-hole covers, seems to have been a bit of a self-publicist. Does that sound familiar, as regards Global Warming????

Sir John Harrington came up with a flush lavatory in 1596. Do I believe anything at all that I read?

Only when it suits me...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A15920183

Best wishes,

Martin

[jhowelb]

Should I now inform you of the practice in the days of sailing ships foe English merchantmen to freight loads of guano in fabric bags marked as follows.
Ship
High
In
Transit

Reading from top to bottom you see the origin of another colorful bit of Anglo-Saxon language.