[MyCattMaxx]

The problem besides quality is price. We love spending less.
Years ago I remember 3 American television manufactures (can you name them?)
Why do you think the chinese are doing so well.
They pay horrid labor rates, don't have EPA or OSHA on their ass.
Here the unions have run companies into ruin. I live in a GM town and it used to suck when unskilled monkeys made more than me.

Now I laugh at the unskilled labor that is out of work because they didn't invest for life after GM.

[eloid]

The problem besides quality is price. We love spending less.
Years ago I remember 3 American television manufactures (can you name them?)

dont forget the USA sold the patents right to offshore companies
that why there are no long any big 3 ..... most people didnt even know that!

germany bearing only cost 10 bucks more that in low low quanity ? wtf but the price of spindles go up 150-200 buck ...


Why do you think the chinese are doing so well. CUS Big corporate American inverstors are using 3 world country to get rich fast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and we still
will get it the pants sooner or later.

They pay horrid labor rates, don't have EPA or OSHA on their ass.
Here the unions have run companies into ruin. I live in a GM town and it used to suck when unskilled monkeys made more than me.

Now I laugh at the unskilled labor that is out of work because they didn't invest for life after GM.

/

[eloid]

I think the biggest problem is peoples own expectations are unrealistic, they want to pay low dollar but get top dollar quality!!. . . . . IT cant ever happen.

when you get below a certain price threshold it doesnt matter if their made in china, japan or on the moon quality will always suffer, and people who expect columbo or hsd quality at this price are just stupid.

Simple business economics and common sense should at least make this obvious.

Bottom line is that if you pay a low price expect lower quality parts.

I'm very very happy with my spindle and the quality is acceptable for the use i will give it.
The VFD's on the other hand where sh-i-t-e so I bought one in the uk and payed the price.

Eloid: . . I didnt ask and dont care who makes these spindles and if it only lasts 12mths, which it will easly, then i wont feel any regret.
Because for £150 which this spindle cost it wont break the bank or keep me up at night.
After all a cheap router is not much less and these spindles knock the spots of the best routers.

" think the biggest problem is peoples own expectations are unrealistic, they want to pay low dollar but get top dollar quality!!. . . . . IT cant ever happen. "

You obvsely never worked for a hight tech japanese or chinese company..... that has a quality/ iso quality program...
take a look at sony, Lg samsung etc.... yes they do use chinese vendor etc... but all goods must meet there quality standards" if you look at the cheap tv set in the store there only 100-200 cheaper? the statement IT cant ever happen
is silly.

hemsworthlad thank your reply you "dont care who makes these spindles "
But i do so, i will ask again to make it more clear...!


Of those ( other people who do care!!!!!!) that have bought a spindle was there a owers manual that came with it, with info on the manufacture of the spindle ? contact info for service/ parts.

[Larken]

when you get below a certain price threshold it doesnt matter if their made in china, japan or on the moon quality will always suffer,

I don't agree. China quality is getting much better, and will really get better in the coming years since they are starting to make more complex and precision products like electronics, cars and consumer electronics. Most LCD tvs are made in china even though they have brand names on them.
They use to be known for making cheap junk, but now they are a real threat to every industry. Wait till they start importing Cars from china.. poor Nissan, Toyota ..
It won't be long till they make a clone of that HSD spindle and put HSD out of business.

I'm not being a doom sayer, i'm just looking ahead with my eyes wide open.

Larry, why not go to China and sell these Chinese ballscrews and parts you approve.Shipping on those screws is $150.Bulk shipments or a skid lowers the shipping cost leaving room for markup.The boys here would trust a local guy.

Hey,are you my other brother Larry ? ..
No thanks, there are enough people doing that now !

[jsheerin]

Check out these ball screws from the same seller. Three, Ground ball screws for $146

Sorry, but 99% sure these are rolled. I have some. They're nice, but not ground. Isn't it usually around C5 or C3 where you get into ground screws? Where as these are C7 (+/- 0.002" / ft).

[hemsworthlad]

[QUOTE=Larken;710229]
I don't agree. China quality is getting much better, and will really get better in the coming years since they are starting to make more complex and precision products like electronics, cars and consumer electronics. /QUOTE]

I agree and disagree.
Totally agree with you about the products from china and the future, but when you get to a certain price threshhold it doesnt matter where they are made something has to give!! . . . Cheap inferior components and materials will have to be used, couple this with low paid unskilled labour to save even more costs and you have the recipey for rubbish quality.

If you want professional parts and service backup and fully documented printed manuels along with a quality product then this comes at a extra cost no matter where abouts in the world they are made.

Like Jsheerin i have some of these ball screws and they are defiantly 100% rolled not ground but again very happy with them because i got 3 for the price of 1.

Eloid:
I wish you luck in your search.
If i was investing what you intend invest in a spindle then i would care and like you try and cut out the middle man.

[wentzele]

Hope this isn't stealing a thread but interested in what appears to be the same spindle from China. The 2.2kw spindle has the ER20 collets which give me the range for the bits I hope to use. I would be very interested in the setting you used for your VFD. I purchased a 1.5hp ABB vfd and I know it won't drive the 2.2k spindle to max limits I sure hope it will still be usuable up to the 1.5hp limits of the controller.

I too am new to the 3 phase spindle converting from motor/sherline spindle.

Are you driving your spindle to the max with your vfd and do you think I will be ok with only a 1.5hp control.

If I needed to start another thread I am sorry and will do that if needed.

I am at the stage of order either a 1.5kw or 2.2kw spindle.

[hemsworthlad]

Hope this isn't stealing a thread but interested in what appears to be the same spindle from China. The 2.2kw spindle has the ER20 collets which give me the range for the bits I hope to use. I would be very interested in the setting you used for your VFD. I purchased a 1.5hp ABB vfd and I know it won't drive the 2.2k spindle to max limits I sure hope it will still be usuable up to the 1.5hp limits of the controller.

I too am new to the 3 phase spindle converting from motor/sherline spindle.

Are you driving your spindle to the max with your vfd and do you think I will be ok with only a 1.5hp control.

If I needed to start another thread I am sorry and will do that if needed.

I am at the stage of order either a 1.5kw or 2.2kw spindle.

Which model Abb drive do you have.? I have the ABB Acs350.
If yours go's to 400hz and 7.5 amps then maybe it will work at full speed.
I,m just getting into vfd's so dont know too much about them but i think they will run above what they are rated at.

If I was you i would start a new thread, i'm sure somebody who knows what they are doing will put you straight.

[wentzele]

Sorry for jumping this thread. I will create a new thread.

Thought what I am about to go through with spindle and VFD were similar to this thread.

Please do not respond further to my questions in this thread.

Thanks
Earl

[eloid]

" think the biggest problem is peoples own expectations are unrealistic, they want to pay low dollar but get top dollar quality!!. . . . . IT cant ever happen.

when you get below a certain price threshold it doesnt matter if their made in china, japan or on the moon quality will always suffer, and people who expect columbo or hsd quality at this price are just stupid.

Simple business economics and common sense should at least make this obvious.

Bottom line is that if you pay a low price expect lower quality parts.
"

the big problem is were get shafted... here a example how bad...
note :ATC spindle...

http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCSpindleandController.html
KL-2200ATC CNC Spindle with ATC: $3699
Specification
OD: 110mm
Speed: 24000 r/min
Power: 3200 W
Voltage: 220VAC
Current: 8 A
Frequency: 400HZ
Grease Lubrication
Water Cooling
Joint of nose: BT30/45 Degree
Bearing Type: NSK

1 year manufacturer warranty

next.............................................. .......................................

Jiangsu Xingchen High-Speed Motor Co., Ltd.


http://jsxingchen.en.alibaba.com/

http://jsxingchen.en.alibaba.com/pro...changing_.html


the same spindle as above.. made to you specs if you need more rpm/ current freq.... etc...

the price.... only..............wait for it.... $2672 not $3699
1.34 times more than it worth? a saving of $1027

here my point.... you made " peoples own expectations are unrealistic"

"pay low dollar but get top dollar quality"

now who's getting the short end of this stick,??? there lost of mark up, let's not kid are selfs ok !

hmmmm this is the same manufacture i have spoken with them ...they confirmed they sell this unit to them... they build to who ever's spec's they will install german bearing (fag, NSK), Ceramic Bearings etc for what the extra cost is ...

see attached pricing info for

[ger21]

I'm sure he has a lot of money invested in those spindles. He has to pay shipping to get them here. He pays taxes on his income. If there's a problem, you return it to him and he takes care of it. Keling is in business to make money.

You want to have your cake and eat it too. Not going to happen. Maybe you should buy a container of them and start selling them at your cost. And make sure you have spare parts, proper documentation and long warranties.

About replacement parts for spindles. Good luck replacing bearings or any other parts in an HSD, or Columbo spindle. When the bearings go bad in those, you send them in and pay $1000-$2500 to have them rebuilt. They are not user repairable.

[lgalla]

Gerry I agree and disagree with you.I get it all the time as an OEM for loudspeakers.I give fair prices and joe blows come along and say they can get it cheaper.This is the fault of the distributer,selling to anyone with cash.
When they blow a driver and come to me,I refuse to repair it.
Any who getting back to the agree ,disagree,Keling drop ships a lot of product.They do not have stock and are drop shipped in CA.I could do the same.Make a deal with the Chinese spindle guys,list on E-bay and have them drop ship to the buyer.EZ money.I just read posts to day of the drop shipping.
Larry

[hemsworthlad]

Dont know what your problem is with people making a profit.!! but your out of order with this post buddy.

From what you say i presume you are self employed like me. . . So let me ask you this, Do you sell your goods or services for NO PROFIT, bet not.

Would you like your profit margins and suppliers made available to everybody on a public forum, bet not.

If i was stocking high value items like this and providing a warranty service i would want a sizable return as well, and your $1000 dollar profit margin will probably be more like half that by the time he's payed import duty and taxes and shipping etc.
He will be looking at around a 20-25% profit margin for his $2700 + investment, which isn't a lot when you consider the over heads of running a proper reputable business.

On a last note because i wont be replying to YOU again. . . . If it's the same xingchen company that made the VFD that i recieved from china then good luck to ya because you'll need it.!!

[eloid]

I'm sure he has a lot of money invested in those spindles. He has to pay shipping to get them here. He pays taxes on his income. If there's a problem, you return it to him and he takes care of it. Keling is in business to make money.

You want to have your cake and eat it too. Not going to happen. Maybe you should buy a container of them and start selling them at your cost. And make sure you have spare parts, proper documentation and long warranties.

About replacement parts for spindles. Good luck replacing bearings or any other parts in an HSD, or Columbo spindle. When the bearings go bad in those, you send them in and pay $1000-$2500 to have them rebuilt. They are not user repairable.

Ive talk to him ... vender one..."he has no spare parts zero!!!!!!!" , he has no stock of that item..."zero" and you pay for shipping ( no freeeebie')... warranty is up 1 year from manufacture,,, noo favours there "...proper documentation and long warranties "you get only factory warrenty ..
I ask for him for additional setup info ....he doesnt have anything else
doesnt even have a clue how the system works... ...doesnt answer questions technical regarding setup or installation etc...offers no returns. Im tired of vender pretending to giving me higher level of service/ deal... and offer me a so call service which is basically ... go deal with manufacture... thanks i got your money..... and that worth the extra $1027....

everyone pays taxes that life! ,,,,but I expect ... fair pricing.... Like everyone else i dont like to get ripped off!
how much do you think he making on the $ 549 spindle there selling ... what the difference here.... what kind of support is that when you got no spare parts ...he cant send you them the next day, keiling is in the bussiness of taking care of himself frist... bottom line.


If you dont have bearing puller your self and or have "some handy friends " to help you ..... Any intelligent
machine shop can replace a bearing... they will make any tool to remove or install it...

[lgalla]

Like I said,there is no stock,no investement,no parts,no manuals.It is a risk to order direct.Since the Chinese guys will accept direct orders they are not selling anything at the moment and do not need to protect anyone.If you wanted to place a good order I suppose you could ask for a distributership agreement.In the mean time its open season on spindles.

[eloid]

"If it's the same xingchen company that made the VFD that i recieved from china then good luck to ya because you'll need it.!! "

this xingchen make motors only... they dont make vfd controllers


"Would you like your profit margins and suppliers made available to everybody on a public forum, bet not."

It called the freedom of information... world wide web......

"If i was stocking high value items like this and providing a warranty service i would want a sizable return as well, and your $1000 dollar profit margin will probably be more like half that by the time he's payed import duty and taxes and shipping etc. "

But what warranty service, it cover by the manufacture.... you want to make profit .... for a service you dont provide?

Who are you kidding "we" the consumer pay all the import duty and taxes and shipping etc. that price doesnt include and addtional cost it tag on..

He will be looking at around a 20-25% profit margin for his $2700 + investment, which isn't a lot when you consider the over heads of running a proper reputable business. "

More like 100% but hay if you like to pay that much go ahead...

so how much profit is made on the $549 small 1.5kw spindle .... 1000$ LoL

[Larken]

I have a Colombo 5.5Hp 24000 rpm, compressed air cooled, Toolchanging router , New in Stock.
It has (4) balanced ISO25 toolholders . $4500

Compared to those China TC spindles , shes a beauty !
[rant]
BTW, John at Keling is a good guy to deal with. He has to compete with direct sales from china for the same products.

It shows how Desperate the Chinese sellers are to undercut their dealers.

I bought a chinese stepper drive to test it out. They erase all the part#s off the chips so they can't be reverse engineered (not that I care).
But they don't do that because they worry about the US people copying. Its the other Desparate Chinese competition that they are really worried about.

They don't loose any sleep about foreign competition when they have 1.3 billion people and a government who puts productivity first and human rights and the environment a distant second.
[/rant]

Larry K

[lgalla]

Larry its Larry not your brouther,my bro is Darrel and the other Darrel.
I assume that Colombo is an RC-90.I thought they sell for $6,000 US.Is $4,500 your usual selling price?How much CFM is necessary for the drawbar and cooling?Perhaps some of the posters do not realize the need for a relyable air supply.
We cannot compair apples to beans but here is some math on the $2600 spindle.
beans...
Speed: 24000 r/min
Power: 3200 W
Voltage: 220VAC
Current: 8 A
Frequency: 400HZ
Grease Lubrication
Water Cooling
Joint of nose: BT30/45 Degree
Bearing Type: NSK


Watts=AxV 220x8=1760Watts Math has always been a problem for me as you see I calculated half the raiting.
HP=watts/746 1760/746=2.3HP

Apples

Colombo Spindle Rc/Ra90 – ISO25

Type RC (Compressed air cooled) and RA (Liquid Cooled) 90/22 35 FP1 ISO 25 CR PD SF (Automatically ISO25 Tool Clamping)

Power 5,5HP 4Kw 380V. 500Hz. 30000RPM 9,6A 2 Pole

Drawing 25170, equipped with shaft stop sensor, relay CAF 15,

no. 2 sensors Ø 5 PNP and ceramic front bearings

Watts=AxV=9.6x380=3640
HP=Watts/746=4Kw/745=5.3HP
Did I fail in the math?I appears Chinese horses are smaller than NA horses.
Larry is it possible some Chinese spindles are wound with aluinium wire.This would explain the od ball results and why Chinese spindles of the same rating can weigh 8Kg or 16Kg for the same specs.
Have a good year Larry
Larry

[Larken]

Its possibly because 3 phase power uses a different formula ??

[lgalla]

I don't know if 3 phase has a different formula,but it works for the Colombo.Both spindles are 3 phase