[peterelli]

Hi,

What the status on:

Real machine? video/pics

Full kit, except electronics

PDF Files, etc.

Just looking forward to viewing one before jumping on board.

Thanks
Peter

[matttay]

I think I'm ready to take the plunge on the full package too (including 8020). Is there an ETA on that?

[maxicomm]

Download the Plans From the Fine Line Automation Website

Hi,

When I try to access the plans from the link quoted to finelineautomation.com, it reports, "The page you are looking for does not exist" ...

Is there an updated link ???

Thanks

[cueshark]

any updates or prices on the rack & pinion set up?
thanks greg

[ahren]

Greg,

Thanks for asking. Paul (the owner of this site) has asked me not to discuss product pricing on his site any more, so I can't mention it here -- email me through my site if you want an update. I should have some parts done next week that I'll post pictures of in the DIY router threads. I was on vacation last week, and have been busy working on some brass/aluminum anti-backlash nuts to add to my product line. Sorry to get distracted .

And Maxicomm, the 2' x 3' plans are available on the CAD section of my site, as well as on Fine Line's. Nate may have just moved the web page.

Ahren
www.cncrouterparts.com

[peterelli]

Wondering what is the status too.

Last time we heard from Nate, was on 2/27.... I sent an email as well..

I am a major rookie with CNC but wouldn't there need to be real product tested before building.

I was hoping to see real photos, videos before buying the complete kit.

Which is still my intention but nothing to grasp to yet with out a real machine.

waiting..... like most.....

Peter

[ahren]

All,
I was waiting for Nate to respond to this, but it looks like he may have his email notification off for this thread or something. I have been in touch with him recently, and he just got a huge order of 8020 in. I expect the full kits will be available very soon.

As for the full machine, a complete one hasn't been built from the plans yet, but it's in the works. The individual subsystems have proven very reliable on multiple machines, so I have lots of confidence in the plans as they stand.

Best regards,

Ahren
www.cncrouterparts.com

[peterelli]

thanks... I am no way saying this is a product with out good merit...

Just be a boost to actually see one.

Even me who is a nothing in the cnc world can look at the plans and say "hey this is very nice".

Nate did respond to one of emails way back but since Feb. haven't heard from him. But I can honestly say, emails and stuff don't always go perfect.....

waiting for the "real mccoy"....

[muttley]

put me down as another interested in the full kit (and kaboodle )

especially once the prototype is done.

I've poured over so many DIY kits and plans, my head spins. yours was a welcome site, all aluminum, priced in my range, and most importantly ALL IN ONE PACKAGE!

[matttay]

I think I'm ready to take the plunge on the full package too (including 8020). Is there an ETA on that?

OK, I did take the plunge and now it's cutting. Ahren lives about 10 minutes from my house. I'd not met him before this, but it was great to have him nearby as a source for last minute cables and advise. He also recommended my steppers and controller. He came to my house last weekend to take a look just after I'd mounted the gantry to the base.

It went together much more quickly than I thought it would. The parts arrived while I was on a business trip. The first weekend (last weekend) I did the assembly of the mechanicals, the second weekend (this weekend) I did the electronics.

Prices (so far) were $824 for the fineline kit (including Ahren's parts), $90 for the K2 router mount, $367 for the 8020 from Automation4Less (not including shipping), $275 for the Gecko G540, $180 for the the Keling KL23H284 steppers, and $60 for the power supply. I also used a $165 Smooth Stepper because I didn't want a PC box in the garage. So I have a $350 Dell "mini9" laptop that has been driving the entire setup over USB. That has worked well so far.

So, that's about $1850 not including laptop or SmoothStepper. I've also purchased Mach3 ($175) and I think I'll rely on MeshCAM to generate the gcode after using it for 24 hours. It's another $175 before April 20th.

After some back and forth and a lot of learning, rapids are >500 IPM. I'm using a PC690 router, and had a skip last night with 200 IPM on 0.25" bit with 0.25" pass. I've done woodworking for years, and the router was bogging down like I've never heard one bog down, so I was definitely going too fast. But like I said, I'm still learning.

Last Saturday was a 8-10 hour day of assembly. All the connectors (screws, bolts, etc) needed were in the fineline kit. It's a little tough to know what connector is used where, because it the drawings don't show them all. But common sense combined with the large number of connectors seemed to solve the problems. Last Sunday was just a few hours tightening and aligning things. The entire thing didn't need much aligning at all to get to get it good enough for woodworking. The router is solid.

I have a good woodshop, but I needed a few extra things most woodworkers don't have. Get a good tap. There's a lot of holes to tap, and saving a few $ here makes no sense. Get a full set of hex wrenches with big handles. You'll need more esoteric (to me) sizes such as 9/32. I used a drillpress, but it wasn't needed. The holes you need to drill in the aluminum aren't that critical because they are just access holes to tighten down bolts. I think the assembly could have been done without any drilling/tapping if some more expensive 8020 connectors were used. Personally, I'd probably have preferred that.

Really study the fineline drawings a lot before your stuff comes. I couldn't pull measurements off the drawings, to I had to hold calipers up the screen and reference to a known measurement (such as 8020 width) to determine offsets. But, I only had to do this in a few places: Cross members for aluminum base, and the offset of the vert support on the gantry. I had the 8020 seller make the cuts, and they were dead on.

Overall, a very enjoyable experience.

(PS. Next week some 8020 legs are coming, so add another $160 for those)

[muttley]

Prices (so far) were $824 for the fineline kit (including Ahren's parts), $90 for the K2 router mount, $367 for the 8020 from Automation4Less (not including shipping), $275 for the Gecko G540, $180 for the the Keling KL23H284 steppers, and $60 for the power supply. I also used a $165 Smooth Stepper because I didn't want a PC box in the garage. So I have a $350 Dell "mini9" laptop that has been driving the entire setup over USB. That has worked well so far.

AWESOME!! This is what I have been waiting for, thanks for the great detailed writeup!!

I am so ready.

You mentioned you bought the kit and you also placed an order for 8020. I thought there was going to be a kit with all the 8020 in it already? I thought that's what you said you were going to buy. I'd still like to get everything in one kit.

Any chance you would be able to shoot some video of it in operation?

Seeing these plans come to reality is really exciting...congrats!!!

I'd like to try a go the way of a more budget build, something with a hobbycnc and a dewalt or porter cable router (or even a cheapy harbor frieght) my build will mainly be for cutting thin wood and styrene. Although I would like someday to be able to do some thin Aluminum. Mattay what are your thoughts on what materials your setup will handle?

sorry for all the questions, but I'm really excited at the possibility of a real CNC kit.

Neil

[matttay]

I didn't get the full kit (including 8020) because I wasn't sure when it was going to be ready. But I entered the cutlist at automation4less as provided by Nate at fineline and it all just worked. The legs are the one area to think about. I'm still not too clear there. I'll let you know if the machine is stable with some long legs on it. I might also just put it on a tabletop and plexi around it. I can't believe how much dust these things make.

I'm going to try and diagnose something weird that I've seen on the toolpath today. I'm not sure if it's the CAM, Mach3 or smoothstepper, and I'll also install an MDF top and put in the limit switches. I'll try to take some video at some point. I hope at some point Ahren will also take some video.

Honestly, I don't know enough at this point to know what types of materials it'll handle. My primary reason for building this is to CNC foam airplane wings, so for that purpose it's way overbuilt. Longer term, I'll also do guitars. Based on the way the PC690 bogged down at the speeds it was moving last night, I don't think the table or steppers are the weak link at this point.

At some point I'd like to try aluminum. I have some RC airplane motors that are good for a few thousand watts (1+ HP). I've seen some gear those down to a ~2000 RPM spindle. That'd be a fun project at some point.

Lots to still learn. Sorry I can't be of more help at this point.

[ahren]

Matt,

Great looking machine, and 500 IPM is fast! I knew that Gecko/Keling combo was a good one, but I didn't know it was that good . I'll come by and shoot some video if you're free some evening this week. Yesterday I spent remodeling, and I didn't want to disturb you on Easter today.

Neil, the kits (with extrusion) are coming at some point according to Nate -- he's just getting geared up to machine everything to size so it's truly bolt together. For your motors and drives, while it seems expensive, I'd seriously consider the Gecko G540. I'd be wary of the hobbycnc kit -- it's only got a unipolar driver (read: inefficient), so the motor torques listed aren't realistic. Additionally, the Gecko features built in opto-isolation, so you don't need a breakout board, which makes the cost seem a little more even. PM me if you want -- I can get you a deal on one.

On the drawing/CAD front, I've been staring at these machines so long that I forget that it isn't obvious how everything goes together. I'm working on creating more exploded view drawings (hopefully in 3D pdf format) to release on the website. It'll be a little while yet, but they are on the way.

And once again, way to go Matt!

Ahren
www.cncrouterparts.com

[matttay]

OK, Muttley, so here's a quick movie of a practice CNC today in foam. This is the center part of a 36" flying RC wing, with cutouts for electronics, batteries, etc. This is of course the roughing stage. This didn't actually complete successfully because of a skip in the z-axis. Once it started skipping, it skipped a lot. Upon further investigation, the z-axis coupler was resting on the steel plate and dragging. I moved it up a bit to where it was supposed to be and re-tightened. Checked with 200 z axis iterations from z=0.5 in to z=4in at 200 IPM. Seems that fixed it.

I'd have taken more video, but it was a full time job just aiming the dust hose. Foam bits are everywhere.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij3risOvqfc"]YouTube - CNC of RC fuselage[/ame]

[muttley]

NICE!!! man, that thing does seem to be moving pretty good.

send one of those flying wings my way! ...oooh wait, if I have a CNC you can just send me the files

thanks for all the great info Mattay and Ahren. keep em coming, I'd love to see the whole machine (especially when you get the legs) and maybe a longer vid with a walkaround and maybe running a piece start to finish, just for kicks and giggles.

I'll keep waiting in the wings for the full kit and kaboodle.

what other options are there for router mounts? I am leaning towards a trim router at least to start.

[peterelli]

Perfect... Yes more video/pics of your build.

Thanks so far though.....

I am waiting for the full kit as well. saving up to buy it all at once.

I know I'll be going for this kit http://www.mikebeck.org/cnccontroller1.html

I rather experiment with the bolt on parts and not any electronics.

What happen to Nate? Haven't seen a post here in a very long time.
Maybe an update??

-Peter

[ahren]

Peter,

I'll be over at Matt's house this weekend taking video, so there should be a lot more up here after that. Hang on a few days -- we should have a good show to put on

For your electronics, I'd still go with the Gecko G540. It really minimizes the work you need to do, and is a significantly better driver than the one you linked to. It's a bipolar driver, meaning it can drive current through the motor windings in both directions, as opposed to a unipolar driver, which can only drive power one direction, and has to have two separate sets of wire in the motor to accommodate this. With a driver like this, at any given time, one set of windings isn't doing anything. You can see the difference in torque curves here:

http://www.probotix.com/stepper_moto...polar_bipolar/

If you're really concerned about plug and play, I'll be offering motors and motor cables from my site in the next month or two that are optimized to work with the G540, and really are just plug and play. Even without this though, making cables to work with a 4 wire motor isn't a big deal.

Not sure where Nate is these days -- I know he was sick for a while, so hopefully that's not keeping him down again. I'll check on him and report back.

Best regards,

Ahren
www.cncrouterparts.com

[peterelli]

Thanks Ahren...

Hope Nate is OK...

With the electronics you mentioned. Is it going to be a pure "kit", controller box, power supplye, etc...

I am ok with making wires but that's about it. Just like to buy a tried/true setup that won't break the bank but eliminates me screwing it up.

Yes, can't wait for all they media on this... like Christmas in April...

Thanks
Peter

[ahren]

Peter,

I'm still working on power supplies, but this is a pretty straightforward setup. Two wires connected via screw terminals for the PS, two wires via screw terminals for an estop, and the rest is DB9 connectors (and the DB25 connection to the PC). The wiring is spelled out clearly in the G540 startup guide. Really, there's barely a need for a "box" -- the G540 and the power supply would be the only things in it.

I just built an electrical setup with a G540 for a guy with 4 motors. I had to make the cables myself for this, but even then, I plugged everything in, turned it on, and it just worked -- all 4 motors spinning in Mach 3. I've been doing automation for over 10 years, and can count the number of times this has happened to me on one hand, so I think this is a good sign of an easy to use system.

Ahren
www.cncrouterparts.com

[peterelli]

Ahren,

Did you make it over to matt's house?

Thanks for the info on electronic stuff. I really have little to no clue on this and I know it's important. For me, I just want to buy it ready made, in a kit form, etc. I assume a private email to you could handle all this....

Hoping you made it over and looking forward to video and photos....

Talk to Nate at all... on the full blown kit?

Thanks
Peter