[David Da Costa]

THanks George your help has been much appreciated.

[David Da Costa]

I think just out of interest I will put a 425 stepper on my Sherline Mill and run it from the Xylotex and see how it behaves.

[David Da Costa]

Joe I went ahead and ordered a HobbyCNC kit yesterday as I need another avenue of testing as I really would like to get my Router working. I will order the case that HobbyCNC recommend, but I think I will get the powersupply from that ebayer you referred me two. I will look for one similar to yours.

I intend to use it with the 425 steppers

[bp092]

David, I should have the xylotex kit today so I will test it this weekend. I will let you know of my results. Maybe I can help to figure out what is going on, if its the kit, the computer, or what ever. Haven't heard a word from cnc4pc, were they prompt or did they contact you first of the shipment? I haven't even gotten an email from them.

[David Da Costa]

bp092, Arturo at CNC4PC usually responds to me in a day or so.

Well I put one of the 425 oz/in motors on the Z axis of my Sheline Mill and hooked it up to the Xylotex board and you can see the results in the video.

The setting for the first run are the same that I use for the Sherline motors and controllers and although it runs without stalling I think you will agree that it does not sound very smooth.

The other two runs on the video speak for themselves.

Check out the video here http://www.digitaloceans.net/workben...ine%20test.mov

[joecnc2006]

bp092, Arturo at CNC4PC usually responds to me in a day or so.

Well I put one of the 425 oz/in motors on the Z axis of my Sheline Mill and hooked it up to the Xylotex board and you can see the results in the video.

The setting for the first run are the same that I use for the Sherline motors and controllers and although it runs without stalling I think you will agree that it does not sound very smooth.

The other two runs on the video speak for themselves.

Check out the video here http://www.digitaloceans.net/workben...ine%20test.mov

Which driver board did you get from Xylotec, 3 or 4 axis, have you tried to switch the axis on the board, if you have the 4 axis use the extra axis for the z, maybe something wrong with one of the axis on the board?

just a thought.

[David Da Costa]

I got the 3 axis.

I ran it on the x axis and it is the same as the z

[David Da Costa]

After another fruitless day including frying my sherline controller when I hooked it up to the 425oz motors I have decided to go back to basics.

After putting a 425 on the x axis (always my smoothest axis) it runs fine, I therefore need to go back and strip down my z axis and check alignment again.

I think I am going to go as far as taking the z axis slide off so I can see the acme nuts and backlash adjuster (I hope I can get the u-bolts back on with the drill rods in place).

On the y axis I know my leadscrew is slightly bent so I shall order some more.

[xscsime]

David,

What mode do you have the 425's wired? Bipolar series or Bipolar parallel.

Rick Kelley

[gtschance]

David,

I have a sample of my system running posted at my .mac homepage

http://homepage.mac.com/gtsullivan/FileSharing1.html

Just to validate that it is possible to run a Xylotex w/425's.

Pardon the poor production values.

George

[bp092]

After another fruitless day including frying my sherline controller when I hooked it up to the 425oz motors I have decided to go back to basics.

After putting a 425 on the x axis (always my smoothest axis) it runs fine, I therefore need to go back and strip down my z axis and check alignment again.

I think I am going to go as far as taking the z axis slide off so I can see the acme nuts and backlash adjuster (I hope I can get the u-bolts back on with the drill rods in place).

On the y axis I know my leadscrew is slightly bent so I shall order some more.

did you permanently place those rods in there? mine are tight and don't have any movement but I can get them out without much effort.. I just slide them out a quarter of the way and slip the slide assembly off

[joecnc2006]

David,

I have a sample of my system running posted at my .mac homepage

http://homepage.mac.com/gtsullivan/FileSharing1.html

Just to validate that it is possible to run a Xylotex w/425's.

Pardon the poor production values.

George

Looks like the Machine is preforming good at 100ipm. are you having a build log?

Joe

[gtschance]

Joe,

I plan to post & video what I have done that is out of the ordinary.

The lift, the knock down hinges on the gantry, my cable chain install and the new dust collector I have designed. May get done this weekend. Up to the point of the standard base assembly, mine has been unremarkable. The stuff after the base some may find interesting. In response to some of David's posts, I did discuss in his thread what I did for alignment and truing for the bearing seats for the leadscrews. I had a bear of a time getting mine to run reliably at 100 IPM. In fact, my first start sounded just like the stalling that David documented in one of his videos a day or so ago.

I did start a thread with some background some time ago and will add the above to that here within the next few days.

George

[Buzz9075]

Wow just read this entire thread... what a morning... this issue is IDENTICAL to my issue that David points you to. To add some information on things I have tested:

Remove everything from the Z axis and just run the motor hocked to the lead screw. Problem still exists. David I think you are headed to test this out now.

I will get it working fine for a test senario then come back and poof it is not work any more. I think this has happened to me three times. I take my lunch hour try something new working fine at 1pm when I go back to work.... When I return to play after work, the thing is back to the not working again at one of the speeds and I did not do a thing but turn the controller off and back on and run my test code which is:

g01 z0 y0 x0 f100
x1 y1 z-6
x2 y3 z0
x3 y5 z-3
x6 y1 z-6
x9 y2 z-4
x12 y4 z0
x15 y3 z-6
x17 y6 z0
x18 y18 z-6
x24 y12 z0
x28 y18 z-6
x30 y 21.5 z0
y0 x15 z-6
x0 y21.5 z0
z0 y0 x0 f100
m30

I have removed noise from the issue by disconnecting all the other motors and only leaving the Z axis running... no load should mean no noise on the line. Problem still occurs even with only the lead screw attached (assuming nuts are tightened down around motor base)

My set up is the 4 axis fully built box from Xylotex (I bought because I really did not want to play with any electronics). I have the 269oz in setup
Limit switches are in place but no power to them yet.
Controller is out side my PC.
PC is 2.6GHZ with 2GB RAM (but I have tried 3 others)
My controller is directly connected up to the PC's parrallel port. I have the breakout board ordered but not hear yet.

One thing I have noticed that appear to eleviate the problem is loosely mounting the motors. If the motors are not bolted down the problem rarely exhibits its self so I am presently testing the following:
LoveJoy couplers. Well I think I can wash that out because David has them in place on Joe's machine. I started testing last night and it still stalled.
Rubber washers on either side of the motor mount. Last nights test of about a 1/2 hour were showing good results on this one (even with them tightend down well). Only problem is the tape between my driver and heat sink is shot and I don't know what to replace it with... going to swap axis today with the A axis to get it going (At least I think I can do this)

Before I say this, my electronics knowledge is limited (about the level of Davids from what I read). While at first I was thinking it was power as you guys have been trying to identify with the limited Amps. Would it not only be a problem when the amperage becomes limited (ie all motors are running) and not when just one motor is running and has all the power required to meet the needs you guys have identified. In my testing I can break it down to a fedrate on the axis and only have the lead screw attached... which by the way is only going through 1 bearing and runs PERFECTLY straight (no wobbling = no binding = barely any load). At this point my testing leads my limited knowledge of electronics and electricity to believe that this is not a power supply problem with only one axis.

Also when using the rubber hose coupler in the Solsyva design if you unclamp the hose and then reclamp the hose the point at which the failure occurs usually changes by a bit. So F22 might have been the sour point then F25 is after loosening and clamping the unit.

[David Da Costa]

David,

What mode do you have the 425's wired? Bipolar series or Bipolar parallel.

Rick Kelley

I don't actually know Rick, I just followed the wireing diagram for a 8 wire stepper on Sherline's site

[David Da Costa]

David,

I have a sample of my system running posted at my .mac homepage

http://homepage.mac.com/gtsullivan/FileSharing1.html

Just to validate that it is possible to run a Xylotex w/425's.

Pardon the poor production values.

George

George looks very good.

To rule out any other differences could you send me a copy of your Mach 3 .xml file you are using?

David

[David Da Costa]

did you permanently place those rods in there? mine are tight and don't have any movement but I can get them out without much effort.. I just slide them out a quarter of the way and slip the slide assembly off

They are not permantely installed in that I fixed them in, but I did have to use a mallet and some brute force to drive them in so I doubt they are going to come back out without a fight.

[David Da Costa]

Buzz9075, it is at least reassuring that I am not the only one experiencing the problem.

Not that I understand the physics behind it, but I have seen in a number of places that the Xylotex controller has a prepondancy to create resonance which cause the motors to not function efficiently. I think it is the resonance that we hear. When a stepper is working correctly it moves smoothly and sings (in fact I have seen poeple write music with g-code).

[Buzz9075]

From what I see everyone but one person is having a problem with the Xylotex system... so definitly we are not alone. A lot of people are watching my thread on this. Figured seeing as you are working on it I would post the initial results here.

OK this mornings testing is looking good for rubber washers. I am calling it a break point for an hour or so for two reasons... play some hockey with my son in the back yard and two ... what I have seen before it is fixed turn stuff of and back on a while later and it is broke again.

So my tests this morning were based on rubber washers that encase my motor mouse. Like the ones you use to go through the case with wire.

Attached is my test results and so far these are the best I have seen. While I am still hearing the moaning I am not getting as much.

From the results I have determine I need to do the following
Adjust the top end of my z axis
Decrease my acceleration a little
Determine why I travel 6 1/16 when I only ask it to travel 6".

I will post picture of my set after I come in... my son is pull my hair to get out side.

NOTE: all tests are air tests.

The test for this attachement are as follows:
g01f5
z0
z-6
g01f10
z0
z-6
g01f15
z0
z-6
g01f20
z0
z-6
g01f25
z0
z-6
g01f30
z0
z-6
g01f40
z0
z-6
g01f45
z0
z-6
g01f50
z0
z-6
z0
m30

[Fixittt]

Buzz and I have been responding in another thread.
I have a MAXNC 15 OL (Junk, dont buy one)

it has 20 TPI screws, I have installed the Xylotex driver, PSU and 269 motors. I have battled the resonence issues for months. When I say I have tried everything. I mean just about everything. i asked alot of questions and machined alot of adapters, couplings, thrust bearings ect.
When doing my purchasing for the driver kit I was told that with this kit on simular sherline and Taig machines people were getting 40 to 60 IPM. So i was stoked. I could get 60 IPM but of course the resonence would cause the machine to randomly loose steps. I got the bald spot to prove this

What I have found that at least makes the machine usable is a max 20 IPM in mach 3. I have had to lower the Vref settings in all the axis to remove the garbage you hear from the motors. Seeing as I am cutting mostly wax and MDF this has not been a problem. I have not tried cutting any allows really.

It has been brought to my attention on the Mach forums that this PSU,Driver, motor combo is not the most efficient due to the lack of power going to the steppers. The 24v PSU is in the bottom end of the power requirments to effiecntly run the 269`s. The limits on the driver is alos a crippling factor. (AGAIN 20 TPI screws, I know that if i went to 10 tpi I would in fact increase rapids) but still the resonence would exist I beleive.

I am not spouting facts here, just theroies, so if someone knows something that I do not. please SPEAK UP! Cutting wax ring molds... takes forever at 20 IPM
That and I like tinkering.

Hope this info helps
Robert.