[slowlearner]

Pete have you joined the Cincinnati group on yahoo? There is a new guy there that claims he knows the FNC inside and out.

[overflowmachine]

Hey guys. I'm kinda new to doing this. I have posted a few times but get to busy to give it much time. What is the Cini group on yahoo? how do you find it.

[pete from TN]

Hey man thanks for the tip. Did not know there was a Yahoo group for Cincinatti machines but I will check it out. Do you have a name for the emerson CT FNC control guru? Peace

Pete

[overflowmachine]

Hey Pete. My machines have Acromatic 2100 controls but you will be fine and I'm sure the seller will be able to give you what ever help you may need on the programing and set up end of things. What are you using for programing software ? Did I see you had posted pictures ? I cant find any in this thread.

Ron

[pete from TN]

Okay just an update here. Still working on an inexpensive way to move this machine over here. It is a LOT harder to move a full size VMC than it is to move a benchtop RF45 hehe... Of course if you have money to burn it would already be here but I am trying to do this myself with a forklift rental and a borrowed heavy equipment trailer. So far coordinating both of those on the same day has been difficult. Should happen soon tho. Wish me luck guys!! peace

Pete

[FannBlade]

Man thought I was going to see some pics of it running!

Good luck on the move...I'm sure your even more excited then I am.

[pete from TN]

Yeah I hear ya!! I wish that is what it was but unfortunately that is gonna have to wait a tad. I mean if I could just throw it up on my shoulder I would have already done it!! The damn thing is large and heavy and takes some heavy equipment to move it which I do not own so I have to beg, borrow, rent, or steal to move it. I am working on it tho. Been researching how to get the parameters reloaded too. Gonna be interesting that much is clear. The real good news is that I already have some good prospects coming in for work for the machine once it is running. Some interesting stuff too... In fact I may try to trade my Hardinge turret lathe for a horizontal/vertical manual mill to get started on them if possible. Peace

Pete

[uli12us]

Thats not only the forklift and the trailer you need. some dollies and a smaller forklift or a least 3-4 people to push the machine to the desired place. After all you need a machine jack to remove the dollies. if you have luck you can use an ordinary hydraulic jack, but the machine must have a stable area for the piston.
I hope the trailer have all the at least 2 ton security belts you need for the machine.

[pete from TN]

The fellow who used to own the machine moved it with the same type of forklift I am going to rent with NO dollies and nothing else. He just used a friends heavy equipment trailer and a diesel truck. I am going to lean on what he did to move the machine before and use the same ideas. I am going to have to remove the overhead of my garage door since the machine is pretty tall but other than that it looks pretty straightforward. Peace

Pete

[uli12us]

If you have problems, put the machine through your door, how will you put the forklift in. A 5ton or bigger fl. is higher than your machine. Are you sure your garage is high enough for the machine. If the tool changes the headstock moves up to the upper position, therefore the machine is 20" higher if I remember right.

[pete from TN]

Let me assure you all aspects of the machine and this move have been looked into. This is my first VMC but it sure as hell is not my first machine... I have been all over this machine measuring everything and did a lot of research before I finally purchased the machine. The only reason I have to remove the garage door is because my shop has standard garage doors on it. Thanks for the concern tho. Peace

Pete

[slowlearner]

Pete, I have 3 Cincinnati's and a Fadal in my shop. My crew and I have moved
a couple of those in on the cheap. We also turned one over in the ditch as well. The bases on the Cincy's are narrow and they are top heavy. Dont try doing it by yourself, you need 2 guys just to watch for the driver. Good luck to you on this adventure.
Scott

[pete from TN]

I do NOT plan to do it myself and I will have quite a few people here helping me but I will be moving with the forklift myself as I have been running forklifts forever in my previous life. The fellow I bought the machine moved it to his shop himself and I plan to lean on his experience quite a bit. We will lower the millhead down to the table as close as possible and block it down as well as will be strapping the hell out of it with 10k lb tie downs. I have a lot of experience moving large machinery so I doubt I will have too much trouble. It is going from a flat concrete floored shop with a large apron onto the truck and then from the truck up my short driveway and into the shop. NO DITCHES involved here.

I love talking to folks who have the same equipment I have. What do you make with your Cincinatti machines and how do you fine them? What controls do they have, how do they compare to that fadal? I bought what I feel is the best machine I can afford, it is not the fastest, not the most accurate, not the best but it is the best I could afford and I sincerely hope to put it to good use and make some money for my family with it. Peace

Pete

[uli12us]

Ok, if you have a lot of experience, than it should work. I feared, you don't have and for few 100$ you make more harm then you can save. I have moved some machines in these weightclass and payed more than you, but that was ok, because I don't have the necessary experience.
But the next thing I'll buy is a pair of dollies for 6tons. If you want to move a machine only a yard right or left or turn it 90° than you can't make this with a forklift, except your room is empty.
Its one thing to move a light machine with 1 ton or lower and a big one with 4tons or more.

@slowlearner, I think today it's the same with all machines, that they have a narrow base, because all machines in these class I know, don't need a leveled floor. These machines are easy upset, if the mover isn't very careful.

[slowlearner]

Pete I am a master paternmaker by trade but things changed during the 90's.
The foundrys wanted tooling tolerances closer than 1/64. Due to the human error factor cnc was the way to go. Anither reason is they dont make pattermakers anymore. IIRC the Navy stopped their apprenticeship during the 70's. After we got deep into the 3d cnc machining I started doing more mold work than patterns. It is about an even split these days between molds
and patterns but I have a couple of cast iron production jobs I run a couple time a year. Which do I like better Cincinnati vs Fadal ? Both have good points and bad. Fadals are easy to work on and part prices are competitive.
My 4020 is 20 yrs old now and my dealer still happily supports it.
Cincinnati's are a different story, I like the 2100 controls because they are easy to use and the touch screens but that is personal preference. Alot of people dont like them at all. 1 of my Cincy's has an 850sx control its a little harder for me to use but this machine mainly runs dnc.The mechanical parts on all these machines are as easy as the Fadal to work on but the controls are a different story. No longer have any dealer support because they closed.
I have a good friend that was the service manager there and if I have problems he helps. There is a fine man on here that has helped both with support and parts for my 2100's. From time to time you can find parts on the bay but new parts are way overpriced. The Fadal was purchased new and was my 1st vmc. It came to the point I needed a 2nd vmc and wanted another Fadal but there was a 10 week backlog alot of people on here will remember when this was. I had a Cincinnati delivered in 48 hrs. Since then all I have bought was Cincinnati mainly because of locality and price. I wish you luck on your move and the wife just butted in with( tell him to have skates on standby) oh yeah she is part of my crew.
Scott

[pete from TN]

hey man glad to hear you do mold work on your cinci's I am still a ways from the skills and knowledge to do that kinda work but I hope to do it someday. As far as skates I do not have any but the previous owner showed me some special plates that he said he had made to go over the screw levelers on the base of the machine. He said that when he wanted to move the machine in his shop he would jack up the machine, put these under the screw feet, and then carefully push the machine into position with a small forklift. He also told me that he had moved the machine once or twice with a pair of heavy pallet jacks. My shop is not huge but the way I plan to install it is basically straight in. IE the machine will basically go in the door and straight back to a few feet from the back wall of the shop so there will be very little machine jockeying hopefully. Of course there is always the small diameter heavy wall pipe method and a lot of care. I have moved a four and a half thousand pound lathe myself that way with my wife's help and a come a long and a heavy duty engine crane. It was slow and tedious but we got it done in an afternoon. I really do not feel too apprehensive about it despite not having ever moved a VMC before. I have moved all sorts of very heavy machines and things over the years and never paid anyone to do it.

A bit of good news here today. I managed to secure a heavy equipment gooseneck trailer that can be pulled with my Daughter's f350 Diesel Dually pickup truck. Now I am going to secure the forklift rental and we are planning on making the move on wednesday tentatively depending on forklift availability. Wish me luck guys I am gonna need it it sounds...

Incidentally has anyone ever made machine dollies before? I am a pro fabricator so I USUALLY would rather build than buy.... if it is feasible. Peace

Pete

[uli12us]

Machine dollys are not complicated. You need 3 to 6 plastic tubes for each. Maybe 3" with a 2"bore.
the bore must be filled completely with ball bearings. Then you use 2 or 3 plates (depending 1 or 2 rows of rolls) of mild steel in which you make holes of the inner diameter of the ball bearings. Then another Plate on the front and back and another plate on the top. And then a bar through all (plate, bearing, plate ...) Thats all.
You can complete the parts with a mounting for a con rod therefore the 2 dollies runs parallel On the controlled side the dolly is a bit more complicated It should be much broader with a plate in the middle. Upon the plate is a big rollerbearing if you can get one for a good price. If not you can make a simple plate with a bolt that the plate can turn. between the fixed and turnable plate you should give a plate of plastic like Polyethylen, Polyamid or similiar. And you need a mounting for a drawbar. I will search, if I find some pictures.

[uli12us]

Machine dollys are not complicated. You need 2 to 6 plastic tubes for each. Maybe 3" with a 2"bore.
the bore must be filled with ball bearings. Then you use 2 or 3 plates (depending 1 or 2 rows of rolls) of mild steel in which you make holes of the inner diameter of the ball bearings. Then another Plate on the front and back and another plate on the top. And then a bar through all (plate, bearing, plate ...) Thats all.
You can complete the parts with a mounting for a con rod therefore the 2 dollies runs parallel On the steerable side the dolly is a bit more complicated It should be much broader with a plate in the middle. Upon the plate is a big rollerbearing if you can get one for a good price. If not you can make a simple plate with a bolt that the plate can turn. between the fixed and turnable plate you should give a plate of plastic like Polyethylen, Polyamid or similiar. And you need a mounting for a drawbar. Here are some pictures.
Steerable Dollies - Heavy Duty Equipment Dollies & Machinery Skates In the pictures the plastic tubes have a steel tube inside. I think thats better than the ballbearing and then immediately the plastic tube.
For the lift off of the machine its good if you have a timberstep on each side of the machine, from a I think 5" timberbeam with steps of 1 1/4" each 3-4" long. You can lift the machine a bit to the first step on one side, then the other and so on.

[pete from TN]

I had heard of machine dollies many times but never actually seen them. They are pretty simple really but I doubt I have time to build a set. I think the plan will be to move it like the previous owner did before and if all else fails use the steel skids he has to slide the machine into position. Again it is going straight back into the shop so it should be no issue once it is actually inside the building. We are planning to remove the header above the garage door up to the load bearing huge crossbeam and make a new header that is removable. Then we will just screw it back in until Wednesday morning when we will be actually moving the machine. I am getting all tingly inside just thinking about FINALLY having a real vmc here in my shop to use. Like a kid at christmas just NOT....hehehe It will be pretty nice to finally have it here and then get it ready for work. Still will need a lot of work but that is all part of the journey. Maybe I will look closely at those dollies and make a setup for when I buy my CNC lathe hopefully soon. Peace

Pete

[rwskinner]

Pete, I'm not sure what the base of that VMC looks like but I have moved a couple large mills including a double headed profiler with several 3' sections of 1" pipe. We would put 3 or 4 under the base and just roll them across the floor. When one came out of the back we would feed it back in the front. Once we got where we were going, the pipe allows you to skid the machine to the angle you want then you can tilt the machine and remove the pipe.

Poor boy way, maybe, but it worked for us. Ceiling height was a big contributor.