[l u k e]

(LOL) I'm gonna ask anyway.

After years of bugging everyone here about everything under the sun, I've made an offer on my first CNC mill. It's a 2003 VF3 with just over 400 cutting hours. I was told it was only used for cutting aluminum and it's never been crashed. It's supposed to be in mint condition, like new.

Plus, it's only about 30 miles from my home. I'm going to meet the guy on Monday so he can do a demo for me. Most of you know I'm a 100% newbie to CNC, so I was wondering if you guys offer me any ideas on what I can look and listen for during the run? I know that the best route would be to have a tech have a look, but that's not going to happen Monday. I’ve just looking for anything to keep an eye out for.

I would think if the machine was abused it would be obvious, but I don't really know.

Any in put would be great.

[HuFlungDung]

If you have the serial number of the machine, I think you can phone Haas and find out the repair history (if any) on that serial. This may give you some indication of its past.

400 hours is nothing. I don't think anything will be broken or worn yet. But you can always look it over for obvious oil leaks, and overall cleanliness.

Did the previous owner mention anything about warranty issues he'd had?

[bborb]

Place your hand anywhere on the head and jog it up and down full stoke (or close) and feel for vibration/grumble as it travels. Do this jogging at slow and rapid speeds. Place your hand on the table and jog X-axis back and forth full stroke (or close) at slow and rapid feeds and feel for vibration/clunks/grumbles. Do the same with Y axis. Place your hand on the head and run the spindle at different speeds and feel for vibration. As you do all of these checks listen closely for "metal on metal" or rattles/groans.
Do many toolchanges looking for smoothness or hiccups/jerks.
Probably one of the first things you'll want to do with your "new" machine when you get it home is to load a program and watch the machine run so ask the guy to send a program to/from a computer to verify the RS232 works. He can even tell you what settings to use (maybe throw in the cable if he doesn't need it anymore?)

[l u k e]

('FlungDung)
No, he has only said the machine is great and that it's done every thing he's needed it to. He claims that he has to down size his shop because of the economy, which is likley.

Just to be sure, the time readings are "HOURS: MINUTES: SECONDS" right?

What would you wager the value of this machine to be? (I'm just looking for a ball park figure based on the info.)

2003 VF3
400 hours
Chip Auger
Ridge Tap
Remote Jog
Macro Option
Spindle Orient Option

[slatern44]

I would say its worth somewhere around $40,000-45,000. With the IMTS show discounts you should be able to buy it new for $62,000.

[M250cnc]

Luke until i first upgraded a small mill to CNC "Steppers" i have crashed it a few times myself also at the time being a newbie at CNC "18 years toolmaker Manual"

I do not have any problems with damage as a stepper driven machine is more forgiving, and i am glad i took that route as big powerful servo machine can do serious damage.

One thing is certain YOU WILL crash it.

Having now used my machine for a year i have not crashed it in the last 9 months. You will have to go through a learning phase.

HTH
Phil_H

[lkenney]

Get a good CAD/CAM software package and learn to use it. Our crashes went to near zero when I stopped all on machine programming. We use SurfCam Velocity III but that is our choice there are others that will work also. (not trying to start a software war here). PC's are cheap and a spindle not turning is not making money. Even writing you code on Notepad and running it through a G-code backploting program will help. An experienced CNC operator can develop programs quickly on a machine but someone new learning both the machine and programming is asking for a trouble. It is the little things like tool clearance an d rapids that get you everytime.

Good luck and that looks like a nice machine. Have your local Haas support person run the machine and check it after you have it set down in your shop. You will need to get to know him anyway.

Just my nickel's worth this morning.

[l u k e]

Thanks for all the input.

Yea I know I have a ton to learn, but I feel my whole has been leading to this point, I'm very stoaked about this venture.

I'm going to go with OneCNC. After years of reasearch on the subject, I feel it's the right start.

[HelicopterJohn]

Hi Luke,

Hope everything goes fine on your quest for the VF3. You are making me jealous. I know you will enjoy it as I have my little TM-1P.

Also, I think you will enjoy ONECNC for a CAD/CAM program. The private forum support for that product is outstanding.

John

[fuzzyracing1967]

(It's a 2003 VF3 with just over 400 cutting hours.)

Well Luke that right there would get me guessing, a 5 year old machine with 400 hours your looking at 1.5 hours a week (52x5=260 weeks...400/260=1.538..) ? Just sayin if that was mine it would have a hell of a lot more hours on it. That said if the vf3 is like the vf4 and you run the table home in y you can go to back of the machine and take a paper towle and rub it on the screw and look for shavings to see how it's been wareing (lots of shavings bad...a little ok...a little being subjective here).One other thing I would do is feel inside the spindle,is it nice and smoth or dose it have bumps in it (alot of chips can get blown up there if the operator is blowing parts off while tool changes).At the very least I would take a dial indacater with and check for back lash in the axes.

That said I hope everything is good and you get what you are looking for,:cheers:

[NC Cams]

Have the guy cut a circle with it, both ID and OD.

IF you see flats at the direction change points, there are slop and tuning issues that need to be addressed. Check concentricity and it should be QUITE concentric.

If the circle is out of round, again, more tuning issues and perhaps hardware repair issues

YOu should EASILY be able to keep out of round under 0.0005" Ditto that with the flats. WE cut masters for cam grinding on the neighbors and his machine hold roundness under .0003 and flats under 0.0001 when we have it do point to point milling. You;ll have to see what transpires on a canned ID or OD circle milling program.

[PhillipM]

(It's a 2003 VF3 with just over 400 cutting hours.)

Well Luke that right there would get me guessing, a 5 year old machine with 400 hours your looking at 1.5 hours a week (52x5=260 weeks...400/260=1.538..) ? Just sayin if that was mine it would have a hell of a lot more hours on it.

Well, we ran a TM3 for prototype work in house and it probably only got that in the first year.
Now have a VF4 that still only gets perhaps that amount of work per day, as most of the time is spent setting up.
So if it's a small shop that's having to downsize, that sounds plausible.

[l u k e]

I meet with they guy today that is selling the VF3. He ran it through a warm up program and did a few tool changes. I'm a newbie but it looks like a great deal. He's a young guy, super nice, really seems to have his act together. He wasted most of his morning shooting the bull with me, so I thought I would give him a plug here.

I did verify that it had just over 400 cutting hours. It turns out I can't even get this through the door of my shop, so I'm going to have to pass on the deal. His auction is starting at 40k without a reserve. There is currently 1 bid on the machine.

Here is the link if anyone is interested.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=220283275769

He will accept non ebay offers, there is a magic number just over the starting price.

[rawen2]

Luke, Sorry to hear you couldn't get the VF but there will be others.

I'm also looking but with a much lower budget than you and mine needs to fit through a standard two car 7' garage door. Will probably have to remove the Z axis motor and cable raceway.

I checked out the auction and I was wondering what the spindle orientation option is and what is it used for? I'm assuming it stops the rotation of the spindle and keeps it in one certain position but for what reason? How is it any different from the position the spindle stops in for a tool change?
And is peck tapping a separate option from ridgid tapping?
Thanks,
Ralph

[l u k e]

I'm not sure about the spindle orientation, but do you think it would be for doing multiple set ups? (i.e. 4 vices)

peck tapping a separate option from ridgid tapping

Not sure..

[lkenney]

Luke,

They make chainsaws for adjusting doors that are too small. That looks like a really nice machine. I have seen machines setup with the ceiling cut out between rafters to give the Z axis the clearance it needs and more than one shop with holes cut in the exterior wall to align with the x axis for long parts that exceed the length of the machines sheetmetal.. It's best you fit these with a door.

Peck tapping is running your tap part way into the hole backing it out and then going back in without losing your threads, repeating this cycle until you get your hole fully tapped. Often used on deep holes, hard and/or with stringy material that foul the taps. Pretty neat stuff. It doesn't make any difference how many vises you have on your machine to use this feature. but lots of vises is a good feature also. saves setup time, etc.
eagle

[Geof]

.... I was wondering what the spindle orientation option is and what is it used for? I'm assuming it stops the rotation of the spindle and keeps it in one certain position but for what reason? How is it any different from the position the spindle stops in for a tool change?
And is peck tapping a separate option from ridgid tapping?
Thanks,
Ralph

One use for spindle orientation is when you are boring and want to stop the machine and move the tool away from the bore before retracting it; naturally you need the tool to stop inlin with either the X or Y axis.

Peck tapping is only possible when you have the Rigid Tapping option turned on; you also have to turn on Repeat Rigid Tapping.

Rigid Tapping is the option you have to pay for on some machines the other can be turned on then with no extra cost.

[Donkey Hotey]

If height was your problem with the VF-3, then you're stuck with a VF-2 with an umbrella tool changer. The Z axis motor has to come off and the cable guide has to be laid over but it will fit through a 7 foot garage door opening (if that's your problem). A Haas tech during delivery should be able to make it happen.

And here's one that's close enough to you to make it a likely candidate:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=190253420854

Keep all of your tax benefits in mind and rigging costs. You can easily spend close to the new price on a used machine if you're not careful. The new price will include inexpensive delivery and free setup. And a warranty can be priceless on one of these when they're in the teething stage (or after they've been moved and knocked around).

If I could do it all over, I'd have bought a VF-2YT (it came out 6 months after I bought my VF-2). My new favorite in the Haas line is the VF-3YT but it won't fit through my door.

[l u k e]

The height is workable, the width is a problem, not only that but my shop is too full as it is. The footprint of this mill is just too big, a VF2 is pushing it..