[TJ Ken]

I know they praise themselves on having great customer service...but that's not exactly the case.

I went to Paducah, KY to pick up my table about a year ago & take their training class.
Upon arrival I wasn't impressed with their organizational skills which had me thinking - "Oh boy...what have I gotten myself into". They loaded the wrong plasma generator in my truck, I had to read the box & say "Hey that's not right, where's MY machine". Then some parts that I had ordered weren't ready yet, although I drove from 3 states away after a phone call telling me everything was ready.

When I got back to put everything together we had another problem. When we placed the gantry on the table it fell off one end. We noticed this was because the slave side gear rack was bowed from the factory. Keep in mind this table was supposed to be tested from the factory. The workmanship on the table was sub-par. It looks like when they welded the slat guides onto the rail they warped the square tube on that side & then just bolted the gear rack onto that not noticing the rail was warped from welding.

So I place a phone call into them & tell them the whole story. I'll leave the name of the person who I talked to there out of it. Anyways, I was told to shim out the gear rail to make it straight & then everything should be ok. I offered to take pictures with my digital camera to show them exactly what the problem was because to me it was kind of a big deal, however I was told that was not needed.
I shim out the gear rack & then I noticed the pinion gear on the drop side gantry rubbed the slave side rail. I told them about these problems again and once again I was told to adjust the gear so it would have clearance.

Mind you all of this happened within the first month of me owning the machine. Never was I told to send the machine in for realignment or anything of that nature. It was always "Adjust it here/there".

I didn't feel comfortable at all with having to modify a brand new machine so soon after purchase, not to mention they acted like it wasn't a big deal. Who sells a product to their customers & then tells them to modify it to make it work.
To me the money I spent with Dynatorch has been a rip-off. After dealing with them the last two weeks I've been told that I need to purchase a new table from them b/c modifications I performed to the table expired the warranty.
I'm not spending another $2k on a table from Dynatorch that is nothing more than some 2"x2" square tube welded together w/o a JIG (Hence the bowing).

I spoke with a couple other CNC plasma companies & am now wishing I would've gone with a different machine.

This is just a notice to anyone considering a Dynatorch CNC Plasma Table, I hope you don't have the same problems I did.

[Armis]

what was the end result ... ?

did you get your money back? did you sue them? did you speak with the owner? ...

[TJ Ken]

End Result:

I had to pay up front before DT would send my gantry back to me. I told them to keep the table since it was bowed to the point of having to really "RIG" something together to make it work. Since I was having to pay for shipping myself, I didn't want to ship scrap metal back to me.

I will be out the cost/time of building my own table. DT wouldn't take this into consideration when charging me for repairs or shipping charges for my gantry.

Every response I get from DT is just a runaround. They won't take responsibility for their machine. They will tell you anything in the world as to why this or that happended other than simply "Yes we messed it up, please allow us to fix the problem"
That is the problem with them, too many excuses.

After notifying DT of the table being bowed initially, I tried their solutions but they didn't work.
I got tired of their solutions (Which seemed like 'jerry-rigging' to me), so I took the matter into my own hands.

[LE3BLF]

Hi, my name is Francis Vega and I have been working metal for over 30 years. I saw pictures of your table at Dynatorch when I pick up our new machine. Your table certainly did have a bad bow in the frame. Whoever welded the extra angle support on to the table with a continuous 12 foot weld should get a swift kick in the butt? I am certain that this was a mod that you did because the extra angle is not shown on their plans or their website. All the heat you put into that long weld is what caused the bow. Don't blame others for what you did. :withstupi
I have been using CNC plasma and water- jet machines for the past 10 years. The Dynatorch system is one of the most cost effective machines I own. It move fast and cuts super sweet. If you don't I know what I am talking about, then check out my work at http://www.cricketforge.com or http://www.vegametals.com .

[Geo39]

I just discovered CNCzone while browsing the net. As a Dynatorch user since the time when the company first started I know I will enjoy hearing how others are doing with their plasma cutting systems. It will be interesting to learn from you as well as to share my own experiences.

In looking over what is presently on the Dynatorch site I could not help but notice what TJ Ken had to say concerning his very negative experience with Dynatorch. While I have no reason to question what TJ had to say regarding the problems he had with his system his experience has been so totally different from mine I found it puzzling. So puzzling in fact that when I recently talked to Leon I asked him to give me his side of the story as it pertained to TJ’s table. He did not go into detail and he was very professional in not “bad mouthing” TJ but not surprisingly what he had to say was very different from what TJ has written. So what is the potential Dynatorch buyer to conclude from this? I suggest that he or she listen to those of us who have been dealing with Dynatorch for a number of years. I personally feel that the quality of hardware, table motors etc. in a Dynatorch system is exceptional for a machine in its price range. I also feel that the guys running the company and making the decisions are so into it that they see it as a personal challenge to make as good a machine as they possible can for the money. As for the individuals in the company I’ve dealt with technical support people for about thirty years and I have never found anyone who is as helpful, and who goes the extra mile, the way Leon does. If you are in business you know that sooner or later something is going to happened that doesn’t work out the way you would like. I don’t question TJ when he says that he had a bad experience with Dynatorch however I strongly suggest to those of you who are considering buying a plasma CNC that you consider what long time Dynatorch customers have to say about their experience with the company before you reject the idea of dealing with them. From my point of view I know I made a good decision when I bought one of their systems. And no, Leon is not a personal friend. Our association has been strictly professional and he does not know I’m writing this. In writing this I simply like to do for a company that has been good to me what I would hope someone one do for me in the event that one of my customers have a bad experience.

[Armis]

The measure of a business is not found in the size of a happy customer's smile, but rather in the willingness to satisfy every customer. Inspite of the fact that some customers are absolute pains.

You build a business on the norm: customers that ask very little questions, take what is given, pay as agreed, and hardly ever return an item. It is just as abnomal for a happy customer to come on this site and give a company a rave review as it is for a dissatisfied customer to come on the site and claim he/she got ripped off.

Sometimes the truth hurt just as much as a lie when it's a negative statement. If the facts are generally true then I believe the company should make the customer whole; whereas if the facts are false the company should just call the liar a liar and just take the lumps that come with negative publicity.

This will eventually go away, but the scars on both sides (customer and company) will remain as learning lessons for future dealings.

[alexccmeister]

Exactly what I had experienced with buying from an ebay vendor. My problem is not in the thousands but it is the same in every regards. What vendors wouldn't want to have happy customers every time they make a sale. But as Armis said, its how you treat the unhappy ones that makes all the difference. Why are unhappy customers unhappy? TJ is a good example. I would be pissed off as well knowing I am getting an equipment that is short of what I should be getting for my money and any respectable vendors would do their best to make the customers happy. Afterall its only one unhappy customers and that would mean even losing a little to satisfy that customer.

This lead to my good experience with a vendor 'Keling cnc'. I have thousands of praises for John who not only called me all the way from the US of A but sent me out a new pair of stepper motors at no extra cost just to make me happy. This was as a result of bad packaging they did that messed up my two stepper motors. Imagine the impact on sales that kind of praising will do to them. If you think long term business, that is what you need to do. If you have to lose in order to satisfy every customers, then there is something seriously wrong with your customer's service anyway.

But unfortunately there are vendors out there that will just not bother with a few bad deals (as far as they are concern) and only concentrate on the good ones.

[Bowman]

All vendors and manufacturers of the best of products will have issues with design and manufacturing at times. It is how those companies choose deal with these issues that makes them into great companies.

The poster stated he bought it new and under the idea that it was factory tested. He should not have been on the hook to fix what the manufacturer overlooked or did not bother to worry about.

I do find it odd that the 2 posters in this thread that praise the same vendor do so with their very 1st posts on CNCzone. Hmmmmmm

Seems more and more companies are placing the problems of the products they designed, manufactured, marketed and sold at the feet of their customers. People complaining about a company is not something someone usually goes out of their way to do unless they are fed up with the solutions being offered to them. If 9 out 10 customers is satisfied after the sale great but the one who is not should not be held out on their own because the other 9 are just fine.


Bowman

[alexccmeister]

The best advice for new buyers IMO is to use TJ's case as a starting point to buying their product if anyone chooses to do so. I am definitely weary of Dynatorch after reading this thread and others should be as well. We never expect to get into a bad deal but when we do, it sucks especially if the vendor choose not to entertain the issue. At least they will know where the buyer stands when it comes to buying their product.

[LE3BLF]

The best advice for new buyers IMO is to use TJ's case as a starting point to buying their product if anyone chooses to do so. I am definitely weary of Dynatorch after reading this thread and others should be as well. We never expect to get into a bad deal but when we do, it sucks especially if the vendor choose not to entertain the issue. At least they will know where the buyer stands when it comes to buying their product.

Bowman, it was my first post; but I have been a member since 2005. After seeing what TJ Ken did to his table I felt that I needed to post what I had seen on the fourm. Why put the blame on the vendor when he screwed it up. Why has he not posted photos of his screwup for everyone to see? I have had my dynatorch for a little over a month and it runs great. I cut parts with it 8 hours a day 5 days a week.

[millman52]

Bowman, it was my first post; but I have been a member since 2005. After seeing what TJ Ken did to his table I felt that I needed to post what I had seen on the fourm. Why put the blame on the vendor when he screwed it up. Why has he not posted photos of his screwup for everyone to see? I have had my dynatorch for a little over a month and it runs great. I cut parts with it 8 hours a day 5 days a week.

I'll start by saying I am neither pro nor con about Dynatorch.

However it seems to me I have read other negative comments elsewhere. While it seems NO company has a perfect track record. Gremlins do pop up.

The fact remains, even if TJ Ken damaged the table by welding on it to try & correct a problem. He shouldn't have had to work on or do any major adjustments to a NEW TABLE.

Quote from Dynatorch site: "They are made of rugged steel tubing, MIG welded by a master craftsman. Each table is completely machined and ready to go to work for you, no welding necessary.

When purchased with a Dynatorch gantry system, all the included tracks, gear racks and related materials are factory installed and test run for you."

They clearly lead you to believe in their advertising theit table should be "TURN KEY"

Barring damage in transit, All that should have to be done is level it to the floor (which I noticed the leveling feet are an option) attach the remaining parts & go to work.

If I were selling the table the leveling feet would be included in the price, even if it increased the price. They just will not work if not leveled correctly.

[LE3BLF]

Millman52 have you seen TJ Kens table? Where is TJ Ken and his photos for all to see? Do you think that he might have damaged the table in transit? Do you think that he may have been adding reinforcement so that the table would hold more metal? I have no idea why someone would weld a 12 foot long piece of angle iron with a continuous 12 foot weld to the table. Just the heat from that weld would cause a bow, how stupid can you get. If the frame had a bad bow in it I am sure that he would not have accepted it when he picked it up at the factory; he should have seen it when he loaded the frame onto his vehicle. As far as the fact that the leveling feet are options; I believe that Dynatorch is trying their best to offer their product in a way that even the smallest of shops can afford to get into CNC plasma. That’s why they offer so many different options; why pay for leveling feet when you more than likely have shim stock laying around the shop floor. You don’t even have to buy there table, they will be more than happy to give you a set of plans for free. If you look on their site you can even download Solidworks models of their products. My company has been using CNC plasma technology since the 1990’s and we have owned machines from different manufactures. The machines have run in cost from the Dynatorch to over $250,000.00; I can truly say that our Dynatorch table is the best value. We now work in a smoke free environment because of their downdraft design. We have found that we can cut intricate designs in 22 gauge stainless at 25 amps running 170imp and have no dross on the backside. Of all of the machine we have purchased; the Dynatorch was the easiest and most trouble free to setup. I have been to Dynatorch and have been lucky enough to have met most of the people behind the product. Walt and his wife are the type of people that care more about values than money (the bottom line). I know that they would both bend over backwards to please. Leon is driven by the desire to design and build the finest machine he can at a excellent value. He is by far the best telephone tech person I have ever known. Mike the software developer is always looking for ways to improve what is in my opinion is the best that there is on the market. I am certain that Dynatorch stands behind their product and would be willing to correct any problem that was made on their part. I don't believe that you should expect them to correct problems that other people have created. It makes me mad when someone tries to pawn-off their mistakes onto such a nice group of people.

[millman52]

LE3BLF

Re Read my post. I was not posting in attempt to BASH dynatorch. Nor was I posting to promote anyone elses table. It was intended as more of a Buyer Beware No matter what manufacturer....

You have had a very positive result with a Dynatorch. so between the 2 of the posts I'd still be neutral in my decision to buy a DT table.

I was only saying IF I purchased it. IF it was out of alignment. (other than something removing & re tightening a few bolts would fix) IF I had issues with it. I'd have returned it. & yes I would have been upset with the quality of the workmanship especially being advertised as "TEST RUN". IF it was truely a Dynatorch quality control issue. He should have been instructed to return the table freight prepaid. Upon Dynatorch inspecting, adjusting, or repalcing at their option. IF there was in fact a problem. DT should have Cheerfully made an adjustment & reimbursed their customer any and all freight charges.

I agree that you can not scab a piece of metal to the bottom of another & place a long continuous weld & not expect warpage.

As to the leveling feet. I really don't think that it will make a great difference to the person buying the table after he is already spending in excess of $10,000.00 that the price tag be $10,099.00, to have them included. To me It just makes better sense for the company to include them in their price. To be sure the customer has a good way of leveling the table besides a pry bar & wood wedges.

I have always went the extra mile for my customers. The few times I have had a complaint. I pay the freight if involved, I pay men overtime if necessary. I do everything I can to try & keep every customer satisfied.

Some people are impossible to satisfy. Unfotunate but it happens.

[LE3BLF]

Well Millman52 I would think that before you shot your mouth off maybe you should find out the facts call Dynatorch and find out what they did or did not do.

How do you know that the table was not test run before hand?

You must have seen the table to have known that the angle was scabbed to the bottom side?

I agree with you “Some people are impossible to satisfy. Unfortunate but it happens.”

Maybe $99.00 is not much money for you but for someone just getting started it might be. Also Dynatorch offers a kit for $6,045.00 for those that do not have $10,000.00 to put into a system.

For you information I am not using leveling feet, just a few metal shims.

[millman52]

Well Millman52 I would think that before you shot your mouth off maybe you should find out the facts call Dynatorch and find out what they did or did not do.

How do you know that the table was not test run before hand?

You must have seen the table to have known that the angle was scabbed to the bottom side?

I agree with you “Some people are impossible to satisfy. Unfortunate but it happens.”

Maybe $99.00 is not much money for you but for someone just getting started it might be. Also Dynatorch offers a kit for $6,045.00 for those that do not have $10,000.00 to put into a system.

For you information I am not using leveling feet, just a few metal shims.

(1) I don't know that the table was test run. If it in fact was There shouldn't have been a problem when it was re assembled. (assuming it was handled properly during transport & re assembly)

(2) As for knowing about the angle welded on. I don't know that for a fact either. You have forgot what you posted in post #4 of this thread

QUOTE:"I saw pictures of your table at Dynatorch when I pick up our new machine. Your table certainly did have a bad bow in the frame. Whoever welded the extra angle support on to the table with a continuous 12 foot weld should get a swift kick in the butt? I am certain that this was a mod that you did because the extra angle is not shown on their plans or their website. All the heat you put into that long weld is what caused the bow. Don't blame others for what you did."

Which is no proof that it was or wasn't bowed before the angle was welded on there.

I seem to remember reading in the Dynatorch forum that at least one other person had a similar problem with their table. He however went on & worked with his table & has it operational.

Again I am not trying to discredit DT. I am sure they have 100's or maybe even 1000's of very satisfied customers out there. Just read the entire DT thread. Many more satisfied than is not...... (2) Out of many is not that bad of a track record.

I Know If I were an upstart company. I'd probably eat all my profit on the sale to keep from having the bad publicity. At least then When the guy like TJ is asked. His only honest statement would be. Yes I had problems, But they took care of it in the end.

My Point was & still is. Buyer beware no matter whose table it is.

In my case I built my own table & used open market hardware & software. That way if there is a problem with the table It's My fault!!! If I don't like the hardware or software I can replace it from any one of 100's of vendors. I'm not held captive by the people I bought the table from.

[LE3BLF]

Millman52 what I asked you in my last post is how did you know it was scabbed to the bottom? I was just curious as to how you got it right.

And as far as test run, I did see my gantry run at Dynatorch the day I went for training and pickup.

If Walt and his group at Dynatorch say that they test run the machine I believe them. My dealings with them have been up and up.

[cstroke]

dynatorch in my opinion is a great company..
very friendly and knowledgeable.. all their employees are like family and have a common goal.
i'm pleased with my machine, the only problems i have would be the learning curve.
I believe there is a lot more to this story than meets the eye.
i dont think you can go wrong with the dynatorch..

[romanbrass]

Millman52 have you seen TJ Kens table? Where is TJ Ken and his photos for all to see? Do you think that he might have damaged the table in transit? Do you think that he may have been adding reinforcement so that the table would hold more metal? I have no idea why someone would weld a 12 foot long piece of angle iron with a continuous 12 foot weld to the table. Just the heat from that weld would cause a bow, how stupid can you get. If the frame had a bad bow in it I am sure that he would not have accepted it when he picked it up at the factory; he should have seen it when he loaded the frame onto his vehicle. As far as the fact that the leveling feet are options; I believe that Dynatorch is trying their best to offer their product in a way that even the smallest of shops can afford to get into CNC plasma. That’s why they offer so many different options; why pay for leveling feet when you more than likely have shim stock laying around the shop floor. You don’t even have to buy there table, they will be more than happy to give you a set of plans for free. If you look on their site you can even download Solidworks models of their products. My company has been using CNC plasma technology since the 1990’s and we have owned machines from different manufactures. The machines have run in cost from the Dynatorch to over $250,000.00; I can truly say that our Dynatorch table is the best value. We now work in a smoke free environment because of their downdraft design. We have found that we can cut intricate designs in 22 gauge stainless at 25 amps running 170imp and have no dross on the backside. Of all of the machine we have purchased; the Dynatorch was the easiest and most trouble free to setup. I have been to Dynatorch and have been lucky enough to have met most of the people behind the product. Walt and his wife are the type of people that care more about values than money (the bottom line). I know that they would both bend over backwards to please. Leon is driven by the desire to design and build the finest machine he can at a excellent value. He is by far the best telephone tech person I have ever known. Mike the software developer is always looking for ways to improve what is in my opinion is the best that there is on the market. I am certain that Dynatorch stands behind their product and would be willing to correct any problem that was made on their part. I don't believe that you should expect them to correct problems that other people have created. It makes me mad when someone tries to pawn-off their mistakes onto such a nice group of people.

I know from dealing with various customers for nearly thirty years that you will have customers make an error in judgment, and not want to admit to themselves the true source of the error. Sometimes the customer isn't even technically proficient enough to lay blame where it belongs, so, the old adage that says that "the customer is always right" isn't true in all cases.

It sounds to me like potential purchasers should do the same homework I did before buying the Dynatorch. I am not up and running yet, but I have nothing but high praise for EVERYONE involved at Dynatorch, from the ladies up front to the guys that loaded my unit. Support is super so far, and I fully expect it to continue to be first class. Don't shy away from Dynatorch, you will not get as much of anything for your money! They are about to explode in sales from what I can tell. My hat is off to Walt, Gary (Wittlock), Greg and the entire crew.

[h5hcon]

I also have been a user for many years. I have never had a problem with my machine.