[JMcDonald]

I'm a little lost, so if I have missed a thread covering these topics, please just point me in the right direction.

I have been looking at several mills and searching through this board like crazy. I have found a few options, but here is the latest.

If I buy these three parts, will they work together with essentially basic assembly?
X2-Type Mill, Harbor Freight (this is the right one, correct?), $~500:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44991

This CNCFusion CNC Conversion kit, #4 $~575:
http://www.cncfusion.com/minimill1.html

The CNCBridges Table, $~600:
http://www.cncbridges.com/mmb85265.htm

And this motor / electronic kit (Nema23 motors is about all I can point out for comparison), $1625:
http://www.super-tech.com/root/itm.a...-emc-mightybox

Will those work together? If not, could you point me in the right direction to the parts that will work? Id like as "complete" a setup as possible, because I don't yet understand enough about the inner workings of these things to try to fabricate parts for them. And I definately don't understand the electronics enough to try to mix and match and tweak in that department.

This would be a grand total of about 3300, plus extras. If everything works like Im thinking, Id have by far the largest capacity of any mill Ive seen in this size or price range. The next step up seems to be the RF31-type mill (which seems to be available just about everywhere with different names and colors), or the X3, but with the CNCBridges table the X2-type would still outdo them in every direction (at least for the RF31).

I'm not so concerned about motor torque, as long as it won't effect the part quality or machine reliability. Rapid time isn't a huge deal, since after I get it going, I will be busy in other parts of the shop mostly, and only changing out materials on the table every few minutes or whatever after the parts are done.

Am I missing anything?

Thanks in advance!

[JMcDonald]

This kit from the same place appears to have stronger motors (214oz/in vs 151oz/in). It also seems to be about $200 cheaper, but I can't see any other reason why other than the motors are 400steps / rev rather than 1600. However, I dont know if I'd ever need more resolution than the 400steps / rev.

http://www.super-tech.com/root/itm.a...-emc-mightybox

[kreutz]

This kit from the same place appears to have stronger motors (214oz/in vs 151oz/in). It also seems to be about $200 cheaper, but I can't see any other reason why other than the motors are 400steps / rev rather than 1600. However, I dont know if I'd ever need more resolution than the 400steps / rev.

http://www.super-tech.com/root/itm.a...-emc-mightybox

Probably because the motors are 200 step/rev and the drives are only half step, while the other model's drive is an 8 microstep.

[hoss2006]

For that much money you could buy a complete CNC mill from someplace like
http://www.syilamerica.com/product_X...FREQgQodfVyVKA or
http://www.kdntool.com/_sgg/m2_1.htm
and just hook up a computer.
Check Ebay also for a deal. SyilAmerica Has a couple packages for sale on Ebay.

[JMcDonald]

Well if the CNCbridges is not a good idea then Ill just go with the RF31-style mill, as I definately need more work area than the normal X2 will allow (and would really like the work area that the CNCBridges does). With that RF31 style, Ill at least get ~19" x 7" of milling room, which is still enough for most. That would still run me about 2500-3300 depending on which CNC kit I get.

I'm getting a little braver as I learn more, but am still a little lost on what exactly is needed.

Thanks.

[hoss2006]

Microkinetics sells kits and complete mills for the RF31 type of mill but a little pricy.
A square column mill like the X3 would be cheaper and better to convert to CNC.
CNCfusion has the kits.
You can find the stepper and electronics kits much cheaper than at super-tech.
Xylotex sells a kit with much stronger motors for around $500.
Also try kelinInc.net
for packages.
MaxNC has a mill for $3300.

[JMcDonald]

The RF-31 type mills Ive seen have all be comparible in price to the X3, but have much greater horizontal capacity. That 19 x 7 milling capacity is the smallest I'd want for what I need to do. Also, the CNCMasters mill that I was going to buy before I started looking into retrofitting is a CNC version of the RF-31, and it seems to work fine. But still, Id rather use a CNCBridged X2 over an RF31, because of its vastly greater capacity, and still not having to worry about issues with a round column.


So, about that CNCBridges bedplate. I suppose it might tilt a little as it went toward the end, but Harlow (I think that is his name?) said in another thread that the table is never supported by less than half (I think he said something about 18" out of 30" total being supported when the table is at the furthest ends), so that shouldn't be an issue.

But how about I figure out a plan for both routes:

First route:
Mill: X2 copy, $~500
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44991

Hardware: CNCFusion X2 kit #4, $~600
http://www.cncfusion.com/minimill1.html

Electronics: Xylotex 4-axis kit (I would set up the 4th axis later), $~500
http://www.xylotex.com/4AxSysKit.htm

Software: Mach2?, Mach3? $~200

Table: CNCBridges, $~600

Total: 500 + 600 + 500 + 200 + 600 = ~2400, with the milling capacity of a much larger machine. Then add in, say, $200 for extra electronics required, making it $~2.6k. Would that work?


IF I went the RF31 route, Id go:
Mill: RF-31 type, Harbor Freight, $~1100
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=33686

Electronics: Xylotex 3-axis kit (since I don't know how well a rotary table would fit under the spindle), $~400
http://www.xylotex.com/4AxSysKit.htm

Software: Mach2?, Mach3? $~200

Hardware: Custom... $400? (Dunno what is custom and what should be bought or where), plus lots more time.

For a total of about $2100, or maybe ~$2.3k after extra electronics (if necessary) is involved.


I'd rather go the X2 route, especially if I get a chance to talk to Harlow about it. Other than possible table issues, I like everything about the X2 setup over the RF31 setup, given greater capacity, and more likely success with a rotary table. Also, the fact that the base mill is about 1/2 the price of the RF31, and much easier to get my hands on, I could probably buy it this week and start playing with it before I started on the retrofit. Not a huge point in the grand scheme, but just another point I like. Finally, I am sure all the concerns about round-column mills are not completely out of the blue, and I will feel a little better knowing the head won't try to rotate over time and me not notice.


BTW, thanks for all the advice! Please keep it coming!

[Stepper Monkey]

MaxNC has a mill for $3300.

This isn't the type of thing that falls into the same category as an X2. The MaxNC may boast a large work area, but it is a light, flimsy little machine - More in the class of a Sherline, but with really poor design.
Look at the X axis stepper. See it hanging there on only 2 screws? That motor attaches rigidly to the 1/4-20 allthread used as a leadscrew. See any bearing block? The stepper IS the bearing block for the screw. The only one. Getting frightened yet? Now look at the Z. It gets worse the more you look at one up close. MaxNC machines are simply terrifying.
It isn't what you are looking for in this case, and if you want a light-duty machine, there are many better alternatives - probably any alternative would be better.


There are Syil and other makers offer the CNC'd X2 pre-built very cheaply that have motors and drivers already installed. Ready to run for $1000 less than assembing it yourself in the manner you suggest.
I'd look into that first.

[Old Megawatts]

I have owned a round column Mill/Drill and can tell you from experience that you will really pull your hair out if you ever have a job that requires more distance under the quill than the five inch stroke of the quill and have to move the head up to complete the job. This will happen! I now own a Bridgeport type manual mill and a Syil America Super X3. I mainly purchased the X3 so I could learn to program and operate a CNC mill, not to make money with. So far I have had some computer compatability and software problems and a bad spindle drive board. Syil replaced the board with no problems from them, very cooperative. Their commitment to customer service is very good.
I had some software bugs in the Mach3 but the latest update seems to have cured them. Their support is very good also.

OM

[JMcDonald]

Thanks for those tips!

On the pre-CNC'd X2s, will that CNCBridges table work with them (to some degree, even with some modification?). That is the only way I would use an x2, and would definately be my favorite option, because of the square column, greater Z travel, and the aforementioned greater horizontal travel, than the next option of an RF31 conversion.



Also, where have you seen plug-n-play CNC X2 mills for $1500?
This is what I've found:
http://www.syilamerica.com/product_X2.asp#X2package
Unless you meant $1000 less than my original $3300 estimate.


*edit*

Harlow told me that those CNC conversion kits wouldn't work with that table. So that means no $600 for that CNCFusion kit. Here is what he said:

If you have an X2 you just bolt the column onto the base
and install the Z movements. Of course you would need the controllers,
motors and software.

The Z will work work with other CNC kits. Our base wont as non of
them would fit. I expect any of them could be adapted but you would need
much longer screws than those kits come with.

So I suppose that means I would just buy a kit with motors and drivers / controllers, and then just make my own mounts. I could probably get the Z-axis kit from CNCFusion, though.

[JMcDonald]

So:
Base Mill: HF Model, $~500
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44991

Electronics: Xylotex 4-axis kit (I would set up the 4th axis later), $~500
http://www.xylotex.com/4AxSysKit.htm

Table: CNCBridges, $~600
http://www.cncbridges.com/mmb85265.htm

And then lets say $500 for whatever else I end up needing (hardware, additional electronics, etc etc), for about $2100.

Ill have to clarify with Harlow what exactly comes with their kits as far as attaching the motors, but it looks relatively simple (at least, complete mount fabrication shouldn't be required):
(X and Y axes)


(Z Axis)

Missing anything?



I can tell I'm starting to get a little braver as my understanding of how this stuff works increases.

[alexccmeister]

If you are interested to get the cncbridges kit, do check out their dedicated thread here.
Someone has received their z axis kit.

[dropride]

I've got a cncbridges setup ordered, supposed to be done soon. You could go with a 425ozin motor and driver setup from keling inc for $399 and they have mach 3 for $139. I belive all you need is lovejoy couplers for the motors on harlows setup.

[hoss2006]

.

[dropride]

Ya mine was ordered back in nov., i wasn't really in a rush at the time and wanted the bigger work area. I am at the point where i need to get my cnc setup and he said it should be done in the next week. I agree with you on the lack of videos. Hopefully it will be worth the wait. I'll definately have some pics and maybe a vid when i get it.

[Jay C]

I'm a little lost,

If I buy these three parts, will they work together with essentially basic assembly?
X2-Type Mill, Harbor Freight (this is the right one, correct?), $~500:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44991

This CNCFusion CNC Conversion kit, #4 $~575:
http://www.cncfusion.com/minimill1.html

The CNCBridges Table, $~600:
http://www.cncbridges.com/mmb85265.htm

And this motor / electronic kit (Nema23 motors is about all I can point out for comparison), $1625:
http://www.super-tech.com/root/itm.a...-emc-mightybox

The cncbridges is CNC ready so no need for the CNCFusion kit. But are you jumping the gun a bit? Do you know the effective work envelop you need/want? Are you sure a stock X2 has it, and will have it after a CNC conversion? Have you looked at an X3? There are a lot more cost effective solutions for the electronics ... it's too early to settle on one ... especially one that pricey.

Also, like Hoss has pointed out, CNCBridges is way overdue and a waiting list months long. How soon do you need a solution? What parts, what material? You mention a 4th axis, what size ... don't jump too soon, keep asking questions.

FWIW,
Jay

[JMcDonald]

Thanks for all the advice.

Harlow just filled me in with just about everything I needed to know! Extremely helpful! I will probably start buying parts here very soon.

[JMcDonald]

Oops. I didn't see the second page of replies.

Harlow told me that if I ordered it now it would probably be about 60 days.

And yeah I didn't know CNC electronic kits could be found that cheap. I will most likely go with the Kelling kit since that is the 3rd time it has been referenced to me (twice in this thread, and that is what Harlow mentioned).


The work space I need has to be at least ~17" in the X, and ~5" in the Y. If I wanted a 4th axis (some of my designs are round with holes drilled evenly around it, meaning doing it with Computer Control will be much more accurate and faster, plus other things that are round, complex-machined parts that can't be done with a lathe), then the taller Z range will allow more room for that. There are definately lots more uses for that space, and those space requirements are actually just off the top of my head. Besides, the better the equipment, the better my outlet is from turning my ideas to realities.

Also, the larger workspace means I could machine multiple copies of the same part at a time (or, more copies). That would reduce costs and increase time efficiency.

I looked at the X3, but it doesn't have the horizontal capacity I need. The X2 with this table is both the cheapest option and the one with the greatest capacity, so there is not much more I can ask for. Also, about the CNCBridges table, he told me that while it could be better, it could not be much better, and would drive the cost far above the market he is selling to. The parts I am machining don't actually need to have that much accuracy (for the most part, as long as you can eyeball it with the original part, or measure it with a ruler and it comes it right, then it's OK).

I am not in a huge rush to get the CNCBridges kit. The X2 mill by itself has enough capacity for me to continue prorotyping some parts, and maybe even start production on products that require smaller milled parts (small flanges, etc).

*edit*

I would actually buy and Convert a knee-mill if I could get it into my shop. I have lots of parts ideas and even have some that would justify having a mill that large. However, at over a ton I don't think the floor can take it. Thus, that puts me back into benchtop mill territory and this X2 conversion is by far the best solution for me needs, I think.

[hoss2006]

Hey J,
This mill from Grizzly fits your requirement for X and Y travel.
X = 21 5/8
Y = 7 1/2
It's a dovetail column so it would be better than a round column for CNCing.
"only" 673 lbs too so your floor could handle it.
If I do it again I might go this route rather than an X3.