[Wild Horse]

Looking into a laser, after getting burned severely on a cnc machine (yeah, the pcnc fiasco).

Basically, I'm looking get a laser, but on a smaller, kind of trial basis. So I'm looking for a laser that will do a size around 8" x 12"...even a little smaller or bigger is fine. I'm looking to do some laser engraving (no cutting) in wood and other like materials.

I've seen alot of posts..aLOT. For some reason it seems like a crapshoot with some machines, especially from china. I've found some on ebay, but....

Listen, I'm gunshy after getting burned with pcnc and I don't want to spend more than a grand initially...saw several for under that, but who knows.

Any opinions/insight would be greatly appreciated !
Bill

[zax15uk]

I have the Artsign desktop unit, it's a great little machine for ~$1k. It's best suited for a hobby machine although you can do a lot with it after a few minor upgrades.

ARTSIGN M40 LASER ENGRAVER - 40W CO2 ENGRAVING MACHINE - eBay (item 310276992839 end time Dec-05-10 14:56:40 PST)

(Note: I didn't buy from this seller so can't vouch for them, just providing an example of the system)

There are others that are similar too, just remember if it's shipping from China you'll most likely have added cost and potential problems - so it had better be significantly cheaper. Avoid anything with NewlySeal though.

Some would argue the downside of these systems is the software. Newlydraw works ok after a short learning curve and imports dxf files without problems. It isn't a design program so you'll need Corel or some other software for that, but if you're doing mainly engraved work that may not be needed.

If you want something for a production environment then you'd be better off with a better system, but you could always start with one of these and upgrade based on revenue later.

Feel free to ask any specific questions, or search the forum and you'll see examples of work I've posted in the past.

Zax.

[Tweakie]

Bill,

I can't better the advise given by Zax, who is indeed an expert.

All I can say is that, as far as lasers are concerned, there are many pitfalls for the unwary and you are right to observe caution. It is only when you buy from well respected suppliers (such as Ray Scott) that you can relax your guard, but these machines are possibly beyond your price guide.
There are probably more good imports than there are bad imports but we mainly only get to hear about the bad ones so I think you just have to have luck.

Be lucky, my friend.

Tweakie.

[fullspeceng]

Our lasers cost a little more than $1k but are the best value in the world right now due to our self developed advanced direct print driver software. No one else has our control system or software.

We even offer 30 days 100% satisfaction money back guarantees minus shipping and handling on the small 40w systems.

Vist our new Las Vegas showroom and you can see and use a NewlyDraw Machine, Leetro Machine and RetinaEngrave USB side by side and judge for yourself. We haven't had one person come in for a demo and decide to buy anything else but a RetinaEngrave USB machine.

Full Spectrum Engineering

See real samples made by satisifed customers here:
www.fullspectrumengineering.com • View topic - Contest: Free Replacement Laser Tubes for Life!

Buy a system with bad software and you will have a doorstop more than anything else.

Ask for a 30 day right of return if you don't like if you buy anywhere else.

[zax15uk]

Our lasers cost a little more than $1k but are the best value in (the) world right now

I don't agree. Yes your model with RetinaEngrave has some benefits but at twice the price.

I think the best value is actually the basic $1k model for someone that just needs a low cost machine for hobby use. Just look at what you get.

Of course if performance is more important than cost and the buyer wants the best Chinese based desktop model available then that is your system.

Zax.

[fullspeceng]

Value has many different meanings. We offer:
-larger cutting area
-extras like red laser dot pointers, air assist, enclosed cable carriers, movable Z table, honeycomb table, etc
-USA based support and replacement parts
-RetinaEngrave USB with direct print drivers
-30 day money back guarantee (minus shipping and handling)

If the company will sell you a $1000 laser and give you 30 day money back guarantee , then go for it -> this is good unbiased advice.

If they sell you a $1000 laser with an all sales final policy, you probably just wasted $1000.

If you buy something sight unseen with no return policy, you will likely be disappointed.

As we said, come to our Las Vegas Showroom and see them side by side in person and hit the casinos later for fun.

[pulplogic]

Bill,

I spent some time evaluating the risk vs. reward of buying a laser direct from China or an upgraded Chinese machine from a company like Full Spectrum Engineering. I have always been DIY oriented and have converted both a mill and lathe to cnc so, my gut feeling was to buy direct from China and perform all the needed repairs and upgrades to the machine myself. But, after considering the potential downside of broken parts and buggy software, and after looking at some videos for RetinaVector ([nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7UoH-XfYME"]YouTube - Full Spectrum Laser LLC RetinaVector Direct Print Laser Cutting Software[/nomedia] ), I decided to go with the FullSpectrum machine.

When I receive the machine, I will post pictures and try to give an unbiased opinion of whether the machine was worth the extra expense. At this point, I am excited about getting my first laser and have high expectations for the FullSpectrum machine.

--John

[zoefie]

Hi Bill,

Just my two cent's :

Ive bought my laser (LG1200) from Weike, directly from China!

I had no problems whatsoever in getting it here, although i had a very long history of emailing with them.

When the machien arrived to me (Netherlands) all was in good working order.
Exept a few little things which could be fixed fairly easy.

One thing, check and refasten every (and i mean every) screw you can find in the machine.
Whether our little china friends lack power, or maybe they are afraid of over thightning things. every screw both construction wise as the ones in the electronics department where not tight enough to my likings.

For the rest i have a nice machine for far less money.

Ferry.......

[zax15uk]

As we said, come to our Las Vegas Showroom and see them side by side in person and hit the casinos later for fun.

Just don't hit the casino's first or you'll likely lose the $2k and have nothing to buy the laser with!

Zax.

[Wild Horse]

Thanks for the replies everyone....great info.

I will delve into this a bit more. I looked at the spectrum...it's more than a li'l more than a grand for what I would need I think, altho' I like what I see. I need a usb setup vs. parallel port for sure. Not sure if there is a specific air compressor needed for these, but I have several on hand. On top of that, there's shipping to where I am now in MO. My computer is xp, wife's is windows7...doubt if I can pry it out of her fingers tho'.

All in all, the spectrum looks like it would cost me at least 2500...which is alot more than 1K.

Well, I'll keep researching these....any other input would certainly be appreciated.
Bill

[Tweakie]

That looks very much like one of the pitfalls I mentioned.
Mentioning no names - A supplier says their machine is a little over $1K , in reality it is quite a bit over $2K.
Some suppliers are more trustworthy than others.

Tweakie.

[epilotdk]

Mentioning no names - A supplier says their machine is a little over $1K , in reality it is quite a bit over $2K.

Isn't that called marketing?

If you are on a tight budget and don't need a big working area then the Artsign machine looks like it should do the trick. I'm on my second laser from China and whilst I can't say things have been trouble free, I believe I got a good deal for my money. Trust me, just because a dealer is in you own country there is no guarantee they are any better than the Chinese sellers when it comes to keeping promises.

[zax15uk]

Bill,

The USB models do have more problems, early failures from the driver board but I understand why you would want to go that route.

Artsign comes with Newlydraw which runs best on XP Home, and doesn't need much of a PC in terms of processor / memory etc.

Yes, any air compressor will work - even the very small almost silent ones used for airbrushing although one with a reservoir would be better. Just ensure it has a good moisture trap.

As you may have read most of the cheap systems don't have air assist since they are designed more for engraving (where it isn't needed). It is simple enough to add and can help improve the cutting ability and finish.

I would suggest $1200 is realistic, for the system and upgrades. The ebay seller in the link I posted seems to have several to sell (liquidate) and they are a great price so you may want to ask questions and ensure they are legit.

Zax.

[Tweakie]

Trust me, just because a dealer is in you own country there is no guarantee they are any better than the Chinese sellers when it comes to keeping promises.

I second that.

Tweakie.

[zoefie]

As you may have read most of the cheap systems don't have air assist since they are designed more for engraving (where it isn't needed). It is simple enough to add and can help improve the cutting ability and finish.
Zax.

Hi Zax, i've been told that the air-assist is mainly to prevent smoke and residu to get on the lens of the system.

I always use a little bit of over-pressure to prevent my lens getting dirty. I check my lens and mirror's almost every day , and most of the time i find almost no dust or anything else on the lens.

I've never dared to use it without the compressor blowing.

[pulplogic]

I would like to see an unbiased head to head comparison between the Full Spectrum deluxe model vs. the Artsign 40W. The FS is essentially twice the price, is it worth it? The general consensus here seems to be “No”. I have the FS deluxe on order and should take delivery soon. If anyone in the San Diego has an Artsign or equivalent 40W model and would like to get together and do a head to head analysis, we could meet and perform an unbiased review. I would have liked to see this before I made the decision on what to purchase so perhaps it will help out other cnczone members.
--John

[Wild Horse]

Here's a big question...what is the actual cutting area size, in inches, of both machines?

[pulplogic]

The “advertised” working area is as follows:

Full Spectrum: 12” x 16”
Artsign JSM40: 8.7” x 7.9”

Full Spectrum Engineering
JSM40 Laser engraving and cutting machine with CE and FDA - Jinan Artsign Science&Technology Limited Company

I would be interested in knowing what the practical working area is.

[zax15uk]

I've never dared to use it without the compressor blowing.

There are many factors and it depends on your system, but with a standard working distance lens and a normal exhaust the smoke from engraving isn't likely to get on the lens enough to cause a problem providing you clean it regularly.

If you have coaxial air assist I would still suggest having it on at low pressure though, as it won't cause any negative effects.

Zax.

[zax15uk]

Here's a big question...what is the actual cutting area size, in inches, of both machines?

Bill,

There are different versions of the desktop 40W systems, and the usable dimensions will depend on their table.

The Artsign I have has a head travel of around 12" x 10", and a usable area of 10.25" x 8.75" however if you are using the supplied lift base (which I don't) it limits the area to 9" x 8" (what they have in the spec). The reason is it has 4 screws that raise and lower the cutting deck. It also restricts the height to just under 3". These machines are made to be modified, you can easily add a pass-thru for longer material or remove the lift base and use a scissor type lifter with a honeycomb base etc. If you just want a machine for production and not as a hobby, buy something else but expect to pay $5k. In my opinion the FSE solution isn't a lot better (mechanically), it's just someone else has done the mods for you.

Zax.