[SBC Cycle]

Condensed version of a story much too long to read.

We have 2 new 2012 VF2s, installed the last week of 2012 (about 4 weeks ago). When the HFO set the machine up, I noticed on the Date & Time screen that it said "Next Activation Date 01-25-2013" and then some date in January. Odd considering these machines were paid for by check, in full, in November last year.

Today we fire the machine up and when we press cycle start, we get a warning that the machine will disable itself in 3 days if we don't enter an Activation Code. Fine, time to call Haas. Well, when the part hits an "M00" to flip it over, the whole machine crashes, the screen turns solid red and white stripes and it won't move. We power the machine down, refire and it crashes again on cycle start, this time giving 4 error codes:

102 SERVOS OFF
825 FRONT PANEL INTERFACE FAULT - CRC ERROR
101 MOCON COMM. FAILURE
488 INTERNAL CPU BUS ERROR

Again, condensing the story, it turns out it's because of the Activation feature. I get a new code and all is well.

I have 2 questions:

1: Why did it shut off 4 days early (it would NOT run until I got a hold of Haas)?

2: I got another Activation Code, it expires on 02-20-2013. Why am I still entering temporary activation codes on a machine that we own?

[neilw20]

I mean!! How big of a dongle do they need! Ridiculous!! Make 'em pay for your down time!!

[SBC Cycle]

Screen shots:

[SBC Cycle]

I mean!! How big of a dongle do they need! Ridiculous!! Make 'em pay for your down time!!

When Fadal went the way of the dodo, we looked at every single manufacturer with the idea that whatever we replaced them with, we would stick with them. Mazak was on the short list, until we found out that they are embedded with a GPS that will disable the machine if it moves more than 10 feet. Forever. It can't be disabled. For many reasons, we went with Haas.

This is our third brand new Haas and the third time we've had a problem with the activation codes expiring. In 2007, I was working on a Saturday when the SL-20 went down. To Haas' credit, a guy in California returned our emergency call within 20 minutes and he was in his car on the way to the factory to get us an unlock code. That machine was also paid for in cash.

Ridiculous is the perfect word. We are getting very irritated when it seems like we can't seem to get ALL the keys to our new car. How long will it be before GM and Ford are doing the same thing. Miss a car payment, it won't move. I don't like the trend I'm seeing.

[SBC Cycle]

LOL - it is from the factory set up that way in case your check bounces. I've never seen all the extra fallout alarms that you got, but they all come with the "timed" alarm to make sure you really own it.


Maybe the software is different now and it causes the extra alarms or maybe it is something different. You should only have to enter the code once though...

The check is cleared, the helpful Haas Activation lady could even verify they were paid for and not leased or financed. But she didn't tell me it was a temporary code, I found that out on my own and was not pleased (it's in the software if you know where to look). She assures me I will get a new, permanent code this week.

you may want to try to disable the dynamite pack that goes off on the final day

All the machines that I work on had been paid for before they came thru the door , and from what I understand they only needed to have the code put in once
.

LOL, I didn't know about the dynamite pack. I'm glad I caught it in time :stickpoke

I also was not aware of temporary activation codes.

[WallyL7]

Since Haas finances many of their machines I can guess this is why they started the "temporary" code.

Every one of my machines also was paid for before delivery, though, and they all still did the time-out, panic phone call, thank God it isn't 4am on Sunday trying to finish parts for someone important...

As far as the Mazak GPS being even a remote reason to not buy...

[WallyL7]

Why am I still entering temporary activation codes on a machine that we own?

LOL - it is from the factory set up that way in case your check bounces. I've never seen all the extra fallout alarms that you got, but they all come with the "timed" alarm to make sure you really own it.


Maybe the software is different now and it causes the extra alarms or maybe it is something different. You should only have to enter the code once though...

[dertsap]

you may want to try to disable the dynamite pack that goes off on the final day

All the machines that I work on had been paid for before they came thru the door , and from what I understand they only needed to have the code put in once
.

[mactec54]

SBC Cycle

They usually send you the code in a email, they use a temporary activation code when first setting up the machine, check & see if your payment went through, then get a copy, send it to them, Your HFO also could be the one that is the problem

[underthetire]

We had the same problem, machines paid in full. The dealer gave us the permanent password without much hassle.

The whole Gps thing sucked. mori had it for a little while(no gps on the machine however) but a tilt sensor so if the machine was moved, you need a code.

This whole thing even with HAAS is so the machines don't end up in unfriendly countries.

[SBC Cycle]

Since Haas finances many of their machines I can guess this is why they started the "temporary" code.

Every one of my machines also was paid for before delivery, though, and they all still did the time-out, panic phone call, thank God it isn't 4am on Sunday trying to finish parts for someone important...

As far as the Mazak GPS being even a remote reason to not buy...

Murphy's law or something, lol. When it happened the first time, I swore I'd never be that dumb and wait until the last minute. This one pulled the trigger 4 days early on me and that was the last thing I expected to be the cause of the alarms I was getting. It was just one of those days.

As far as the GPS being a remote reason to not buy? The practical answer is that the 1997 Fadal has been moved 6 times in 16 years, always on a Sunday, and was usually making parts again in hours. I've never ran a Mazak but have always heard good things about them. The sales guy also scoffed when I told him I wasn't interested in his machines but he's never had to deliver parts at 4am on Sunday.

My machine sat for for almost an hour today waiting on a bit code. Like you I've been down for almost every dumb reason you can think of (rat in the electrical panel :drowning: ). This one is intolerable and the reason for this post.

We had the same problem, machines paid in full. The dealer gave us the permanent password without much hassle.

The whole Gps thing sucked. mori had it for a little while(no gps on the machine however) but a tilt sensor so if the machine was moved, you need a code.

This whole thing even with HAAS is so the machines don't end up in unfriendly countries.

When I pressed the Mazak guy on the GPS he confirmed that was the purpose of the device. That gets me thinking. And thinking is dangerous. And thinking led me to avoid a machine made by a foreign owned entity that knows where that machine is within roughly 10 feet.

Call me crazy? Guilty. :wee:

[Kool Parts]

When I pressed the Mazak guy on the GPS he confirmed that was the purpose of the device. That gets me thinking. And thinking is dangerous. And thinking led me to avoid a machine made by a foreign owned entity that knows where that machine is within roughly 10 feet.

Call me crazy? Guilty

When I bought my first Horizontal I told the mori guy the same thing. Disable it or no sale.
He asked why do you care if we know where the machine is?..I said easy, because you want to know.
Never had the expiration code go early myself, also never seen the red stripes before..not good.
Gary

[WallyL7]

When I pressed the Mazak guy on the GPS he confirmed that was the purpose of the device. That gets me thinking. And thinking is dangerous. And thinking led me to avoid a machine made by a foreign owned entity that knows where that machine is within roughly 10 feet.

Call me crazy? Guilty. :wee:

First of all, IIRC it isn't exactly a GPS thing. It is activated if the machine is moved. But, yes...you have to prove it is in a friendly place to get the code to turn it back on. I agree it is a nuisance but Mazak is only doing this because of pending law. Others are also doing it and once the law is on the books they all may be doing it.

One more thing to add to you crazy conspiracy guy

You probably have a smart phone in your pocket right now...don't you?:stickpoke

(if you don't you are a better man than me...LOL)

[underthetire]

No, you don't need internet access.
Yes all the large builders do this, IF a machine meets certain accuracy specs or capable of multi axis function.

[rpm3000]

First of all, IIRC it isn't exactly a GPS thing. It is activated if the machine is moved. But, yes...you have to prove it is in a friendly place to get the code to turn it back on. I agree it is a nuisance but Mazak is only doing this because of pending law. Others are also doing it and once the law is on the books they all may be doing it.

We have some Toyoda machines on the floor that now come with the same Mazak type sensors, "transfer detectors" . We've had one unit fail and had to wait many days in another instance for the unlock codes after there was some vibrations near one machine. The codes can only come from Japan and there's apparently only one guy running a code generator in a little cubicle in Japan. With the time zones it's about 12 hours just to contact Japan. If he's not there when your device thinks the 20 ton machine moved you're SOL. After you receive a permanent unlock code only a Toyoda tech can input the code, they will not tell it to you over the phone. So there's at least another day wasted again.

They say these sensors are so imbedded into the controls, ladder and background wiring that it would be impossible to bypass them. They send out a random pulse to another device or so I am told.

Anyways, the question I've posed to the Tech's is "What happens if Toyoda goes out of business?" I then get the deer in headlights look and then I'm assured that they " will never go out of business".

[SBC Cycle]

Anyways, the question I've posed to the Tech's is "What happens if Toyoda goes out of business?" I then get the deer in headlights look and then I'm assured that they " will never go out of business".

We have 4 Fadals. If they had used unlock codes....I don't want to think about it.

I won't be in this situation again. I don't know how I'm going to solve it yet but I'm not going to be held hostage. Funny thing is that the people we are trying to keep these machines from are simply turning to Chinese machines instead. I've studied this issue a lot since this happened and what I'm seeing is scary. Hell the people we are trying to keep these machines from are turning to China instead. I can easily see China not only being the top producer of 5 axis machines soon (if they aren't already) but having the only expertise as well. I could invent the greatest encoders and accurate 5 axis machines known to man. Wouldn't matter. It would cost millions in political "grease" just to get permission to export them, licensing, and insurance. Or, I could move to China, build my machine and sell it anywhere in the world.

We won't need export controls soon enough. No one will want our antique technology.

[underthetire]

Just let me say, Mori NEVER had built in GPS. For only a few months with MAPPS 4, the engineer would have a GPS module that he plugged in to his laptop on site, get a code, then had only a couple minutes to put the USB drive in to the machine to activate it. They have since gone back to a code the service guy just enters. It still remains today as a tilt sensor only, so no need to worry unless you move the machine. I had one fail with a loss of battery, do don't let the batteries die.

[amishx64]

The GPS/tilt is a terrible 'feature' to have on a machine worth more than most cars. I have never heard of this before and if it was close to April 1st I would assume all of you guys were making some sick joke.

What happens when a company is on a tight production schedule and the machine faults up because of an activation code? This seems similar to the DRM being implemented by many game companies requiring constant internet access or you can't so much as launch the game.

I just can't see who would put up with this sort of thing.

[neilw20]

Requiring internet access is BS. Whatever happened to ownership?
One day when enough satellites die/fail then people will just get lost, and stay lost.
Nothing is forever, and that includes ownership, or at least the right to use your thing forever.
Luckily, some of us will be pushing daisies before it catches up with us.

[MetalZilla]

I had to call Haas several times before I got the "Permanent" activation code once I paid off my machine. What a hassle!