[gar]

060628-2012 EST USA

Our 1993 HAAS VF-2 Magnetek variable frequency Spindle Drive Controller has failed.

The failure appears to be a 220 mfd 35 V electrolytic capacitor that appears to have shorted and overheated enough to burn the pc board. However, the capacitor does not show a short with a Fluke ohmmeter. It was a capacitor failure even though it does not show a short at low voltage.

We have ordered a rebuilt unit, and I will report on how it works. The rebuilt unit includes all new electrolytic capacitors. This unit does not come from HAAS, their price is way too high. It should be noted that there may be a number of different controls that could be used in place of the Magnetek. However, the Magnetek is reported to be a very reliable unit.

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[E.T.]

>>>
It should be noted that there may be a number of different controls that could be used in place of the Magnetek. However, the Magnetek is reported to be a very reliable unit.
<<<

So... for me to understand this correct: You are getting a new/rebuild Magnetek unit, because the Magnetek on your Hass is broke - and is very relaiable....!!??

I am speachless

So.. is there comming a question here - or - ....?


Sincerely, (sitting on the edge of my seat) E.T.

[gar]

060629-0714 EST USA

E.T.:

First, you can not buy a new direct replacement unit. Meaning exactly the same model.

Second, we found a source that seems knowledgable about this unit and rebuilds them. This means at least that all electrolytic capacitors are replaced. All the capacitors I saw were aluminum electrolytic units. I did not see any tantalums.

Aluminum electrolytic capacitors are not long life devices like mica, ceramic, paper, etc. Further I believe sometime in the 90s there were a lot of bad aluminum electrolytic capacitors made.

Third, after we get the replacement unit and see how it works, then I will report further. The purpose of the post was not to ask a question, but provide some information on a subject that might be useful to others. It has taken a considerable amount of time to try to find a solution. If we have satisfactory results from this source I will identify the source.

Fourth, you can probably put in any new drive from any vendor that has the appropriate input/output signals to interface with HAAS. Some of these are 0 to +10 V analog speed control, not +/- 10 V. This means there has to be separate direction control. In this case separate forward and reverse lines. When neither forward or reverse is asserted that is stop. There is one analog output programmed to indicate motor load. See the HAAS manual for the other functions.

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[gilchapa]

gar, Aluminium capacitors are not life-long devices, and have never been. It is recomended that you change them every 5 years or so. However, most of them last much longer than that.

If the capacitor you speak does have a problem it would be very hard for you to see it with your fluke meter, specially if it is an 800V capacitor with over 2000 microfarads capacity.

If you suspect any component is damaged, its better to just change it.

[gar]

060701-2018 EST USA

gilchapa:

I did say that electrolytics are not long life.

The capacitor that failed was 220 mfd at 35 V. Had it permanently welded internally the Fluke would have shown low resistance, but it did not. However, because of the damage to the board under the capacitor it was clear that this capacitor failed. A diode associated with this capacitor did not fail.

The usual electrolytic failure for a quality unit operated well within its ratings is to just loose capacitance.

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[gar]

060705-2013 EST USA

We received our rebuilt Magnetek GPD 503 DS307 SPEC 23P71 and have installed the unit. It appears to be working fine, and was programmed with the most likely constants for HAAS by the rebuilder. I have not done an accurate speed check, but the sounds at various speed settings seem normal.

This particular model is rated 5 HP continuous duty. HAAS rated the spindle at 5 HP continuous, 7.5 HP for 5 minutes, and 9 HP for 1 minute. No speed is specified, but probably occurs towards maximum motor RPM. Since our machine has a gear shift this would mean two different spindle speeds could have maximum HP.

It should be noted that HAAS does not do a good job of labeling wires. Thus, if you do a similar replacement, then label the wires as you remove them.

The source for this unit was

Precision Zone Inc.
Wheeling, IL 60090
847-465=9060

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[miljnor]

How much did you pay for this unit?

I just replaced the magnetek in one of my haas thru the HFO, and I can tell you it aint cheap! but you already know that!

The factory is now supplying Yaskawa drives, why they changed I have no idea.

[gar]

060706-0556 EST USA

miljnor:

About $1000 without core return. But he really wants the old unit back.
About $700 with core return.

Yaskawa bought Magnetek and Precision is a dealer and service location for Yaskawa.

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[miljnor]

great I have 2 old units that I can return!

since they started using the yaskawa's I haven't been able to do anything with these!

sweet!

[HuFlungDung]

Good to know about. Thanks Gar

[gar]

060707-1121 EST USA

Hu:

In this short period of time there is no way to know long term reliability. But Precision talked with knowledge, supplied a part in two days by ground UPS, and for us the programming of the unit appears to be correct. If something works I do not open it. Therefore, I did not inspect the quality of repair.

Michael:

You might tell others what you had to pay HAAS for new controllers.

Have you obtained any software to run at 115.2 kbaud yet. You will like it when you do.

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[miljnor]

I believe I Paid 3100.00 us for the damn thing! (Yaskawa unit)

As far as the communication software, I have to addmit lazyness and a lack of time... My excuse was: I am too busy and the communications are working excelent at 31k baud with your I232 units.

060707-1121 EST USA

Hu:

In this short period of time there is no way to know long term reliability. But Precision talked with knowledge, supplied a part in two days by ground UPS, and for us the programming of the unit appears to be correct. If something works I do not open it. Therefore, I did not inspect the quality of repair.

Michael:

You might tell others what you had to pay HAAS for new controllers.

Have you obtained any software to run at 115.2 kbaud yet. You will like it when you do.

.

[Precision Zone]

Thank for your comments on our service!

We always trying to do our best and 100% customer satisfaction is our goal!

About Magnetek Yaskawa drives used on HAAS machines:

Manufacturer of these drives always was a Yaskawa, Magnetek was the largest brand label partner-distributor of Yaskawa drives in US (just like Saftronics, Omron and many others). Yaskawa is the largest manufacturer of AC drives in the world, they make 17% of all AC drives manufactured globaly.
In US they didn't sell under Yaskawa name until 2001.

In 2001 Yaskawa bought Magnetek distribution network for AC drives. Since then, vast majority of VFD's sold under Yaskawa brand.

HAAS, Miltronics and many other CNC machine builders used general purpose G3 series Yaskawa AC drives (Magnetek model GPD503) for low end (not-high accuracy) CNC machine as spindle drives.

G3 Series (GPD503) over the years proved to be most relaible drive ever made. Every component in that drive was overrated 250% or more. Production of these drives was stopped in 1994. Last units were made in the end of 1996. (I know that mach of information about these drives, because I was working for Yaskawa Electric America for almost 8 years).

Like it was mentioned in previous post - electrolytic capacitors is most common failure for these drives.
Life expectancy on them is 5-7 years, they generally last longer, but once they start leaking - problem is guaranteed! "juice" from them is conductive substunce and it eats traces, shorts components, can cause all kind of damage. THEY HAVE TO BE REPLACED EVERY 5-7 YEARS!

Replacing them without proper skills and equipment is not very easy task. Traces can be easily damaged, since all G3 boards are conformal coated and that make replacing of capacitors much harder.

Anyway,
I was very pleased to read this thread.

Thanks,
Anton Koretskov
Precision Zone inc.
[email protected]
:cheers:

[SuperiorMachine]

I have a 1993 VF-0.

I just lost my controller Saturday (Parts are going to be late).

I would suggest that if you have an early VF-series mill that you check your controllers. Sounds like these are beginning to fail.

HFO said a NEW unit would exceed $3000 ( perhaps $4k). This would include a gpd 515 and other cards required for the new unit, and installation.

Haas Service Manuel says that the maximum power is achieved in low gear at medium-high motor speed.

I stumbled on this thread searching for a replacement.

Thanks gar for starting the interchange.

[Precision Zone]

We have almost all models of VFD for HAAS machine.
Please give me a call 847-465-9060 and we would be able to solve your problem.

Thanks, Anton.

I have a 1993 VF-0.

I just lost my controller Saturday (Parts are going to be late).

I would suggest that if you have an early VF-series mill that you check your controllers. Sounds like these are beginning to fail.

HFO said a NEW unit would exceed $3000 ( perhaps $4k). This would include a gpd 515 and other cards required for the new unit, and installation.

Haas Service Manuel says that the maximum power is achieved in low gear at medium-high motor speed.

I stumbled on this thread searching for a replacement.

Thanks gar for starting the interchange.

[gar]

070604-1635 EST USA

SuperiorMachine:

Our 1 yr old replacement drive from Precision Zone is still working fine.

.

[SuperiorMachine]

I just got my new drive from Precision Zone today just after noon. ( yah no cost for shipping ).
Installed the GPD 503 into my mill. As I type this note my mill is back up and running.

I gotta tell all... I am one happy shop owner.

These guys are really great!!!


Norman Moss
Superior Machine
Snohomish, WA

[gromit68]

We received our Magnetek GPD503 drive from Precision Zone yesterday.
Shipped from stock, received on-time, preconfigured.
We installed it in less than 20 minutes, and it works great.
6 month warranty, and free tech support, if needed.

[GITRDUN]

I talked with Anton from Precision Zone about my machines Magnatek drive last week and he was very helpfull and even faxed over the Magnatek parameter settings to me. Got me up and running right away. Just thought id post this here and say thanks. When im ready to refurbish my old drive ill be giving him a call.

[gar]

080104-1437 EST USA

A year and a half later and our replacement (rebuilt) Magnatek is still running fine.

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