[MargoCNC]

Hey y'all have a question for ya.

HSM toolpaths, V4 for sldwrks, looking at the nc code with the debug on, it is spitting out the same Line#55 for the Z+ move and return to next cut lines, which is where my max feed rate needs to be, but Line#55 is also where my cut feed lines are at. So now instead of fast cutting HSM toolpaths, I have the same feed rate cutting the entire part.

Any help??

Thanx

[Peter Gillespie]

Hi Margocnc
yes you are correct
there is no way to adjust the rapid feed rate
it is linked to feed rate
Bobcad are aware of this
suggested they put a rapid feed rate check box in the high speed operation to combat this :idea:
I run high speed all at the same feed but adjust % cut to accommodate

[nursum]

Hi,

I hope the BobCad team will fix that problem in the next update, because other competitors are running much faster!!!

regards

Ingo (Germany, V27 5-axis PRO user)

[Peter Gillespie]

Hi Ingo
Why not go on website and suggest as I have

[Peter Gillespie]

Hi Ingo
why don't you go on there website and suggest as I did
regards
peter

[MargoCNC]

Hi Margocnc
yes you are correct
there is no way to adjust the rapid feed rate
it is linked to feed rate
Bobcad are aware of this
suggested they put a rapid feed rate check box in the high speed operation to combat this :idea:
I run high speed all at the same feed but adjust % cut to accommodate

This is a big problem. I just switched cams to bobcam from 1cnc. 1cnc uses max feed rate on all toolpaths highlighted as return to cut paths. Funny how bobcam also highlights those paths, why isn't the max feed rate linked to these???

Sad part is, because the return paths are highlighted, I never thought anything about it. The guy on the machine said he didn't notice until the first 4140PH job, when the federates were turned back to 15-20ipm.

Bobcam needs to step up on this, they're already more than halfway there!!

So as of now its a time consuming editing process of "find, copy, edit, paste" to add the max federates on the return paths.

Just a little over a month into this bobcam and ready to start looking for new software again!

[nursum]

Hi Ingo
why don't you go on there website and suggest as I did
regards
peter

Hi Peter, I told them since years a couple of things....nothing happen! I actually also can't understand why an automatic tool numbering is predefined.... no comercial user with tool changer need that, its dangerous!!!! Also an automatic tool generation!!! This was one thing I tried to change...no effort! Now I'am hoping that the feedrate behavior of the advanced toolpath will be changed in the next releases... My experiance since release V19 is that the features are coming a couple of years behind the big ones of the cam market.

regards
Ingo (Germany, V27 5-axis PRO user)

[magicniner]

Well this saves me a little of work.
I requested a V27 Trial and completed a full clean Windows build on a new SSD Hybrid HDD in my backup PC with a view to trying the new, much vaunted, HSM strategies.
I'll install V25 on my clean build and ask again about V27 when it's fixed.
Regards & Thanks,
Nick

[jrmach]

Nick,nothing broke to fix ???

Wanting more control,,an enhancement,another button is what is needed.

I have put in one such request a few months ago for a "keep the tool down" option.

I am willing to bet V28 is going to give us a few more choices for control.Including what is being discussed here.

A floor clearance would be cool tool.

Finding a way to prevent dog legs high on my list.

[magicniner]

Nick,nothing broke to fix ???

So it all works and perfectly produces the advertised speed optimised HSM toolpaths and the guys posting here don't have anything to complain about?
That's good news, on that basis I'll install and try it,
ATB,
Nick

[jrmach]

Nick,can you explain this "advertised speed optimised HSM toolpaths"
I read this High Speed Machining | CAD CAM CNC Software | BobCAD-CAM and fail to understand why it is broke ???

I have know exactly what is being asked for the software to do,,I just fail to see BoB is broke because it does not have adjustable feedrate.Peter has it right,put in a feature request.

[magicniner]

Fine, HSM is not broken it's just "Not Yet Optimally Configured" ;-)

[SBC Cycle]

I corrected this with a fairly simple script.

When an Adaptive feature is used, it looks for the Z lift (link clearance) and increases the feed rate for the return path. When the Z ramps back down into the material it returns the feed register to normal cutting.

I've saved hours of air cutting on some parts. I also don't understand why this is missing considering the ease of implementing it.

[The Engine Guy]

I corrected this with a fairly simple script.

When an Adaptive feature is used, it looks for the Z lift (link clearance) and increases the feed rate for the return path. When the Z ramps back down into the material it returns the feed register to normal cutting.

I've saved hours of air cutting on some parts. I also don't understand why this is missing considering the ease of implementing it.

SBC

You are absolutely right, it wouldn`t take the developers much effort to do it, just idle I guess, having said that BC used to have exactly that facility way back in V23 with the HSP (High Speed Pocketing) in the HSP there were numerous settings for the "out" and "in" clearance, ramping etc, I still have the old HSP with my V23 and it is absolutely great to use. it does indeed ramp in to the cut at a reduced feed rate than the actual set feed rate and ramps out again at again at a similar rate, then it speeds up to the maximum feed rate as set in the "Current Settings". I did a simple open pocket in the side of a piece of stock just to show anyone that hasn`t seen this before how it works, this facility was provided as built in extra to BobCAD V23 by Volumill, there was some sort of falling out between BC and Volumill and consequently BC buyers since then have lost out heavily



Volumill are one of the leaders in High Speed Maching, in fact it is their software that is used by some of the big names in CadCAM like for example MasterCAM, GibbsCAM, Seimens and lots more, Delcam have one of their own that I believe is their own development

Go here for more info VoluMill? | Ultra-High Performance Tool Paths

In the meantime here is the code as generated for the simple pocket, you can easily see the feed rate changes as the cutter goes into and out of and back into the material



SBC is absolutely right, it saves hours and hours of machine time, there are still some folks out there like me and I believe jrmach that still use the old V23 HSP regularly

P.S. I`m not sure if it can still be bought direct from Vulumill to suit BobCAD anymore as BobCAD have changed their "platform" quite a bit since then but it used to be possible to buy the Volumill High Speed Machining as a "Stand Alone" to work with BobCAD, expensive but absolutely worth it so maybe they still do one so anyone really interested should contact Volumill for more info

Regards
Rob
:rainfro: :rainfro: :rainfro:

[jrmach]

Yes,I use HSP in V23 a lot still.
Also,for some reason,HSP by Volumill does not seem to calculate as many "dog leg's". Must be the algorithm they use.
You also get to put in your "floor" clearance.I would like to see that feature in BoB's soon.
Have to say,for a couple hundred dollars add-on,I have got my $$$ worth from V23 HSP

Nick, "Not Yet Optimally Configured"
Agreed

[The Engine Guy]

James

Yes, have to agree, for the money back then it was probably on a par with the Predator 2 Back Plot, just about the 2 best things that BobCAD have ever sold me, doubt any of us will ever get anything of that level of value from BobCAD again

I have stayed at V26 mainly because the pretty large chunks of money being asked for by BC are becoming a bit ridiculous, last quote I had which was last year was $2083 to get the next upgrade, upgrade price before that was $1159 for 2 seats, huge jumps in costs, the very lowest most basic support cost went from $200 up to $400 now in less than a year, that to me is unreasonable, yes, everything does go up (Mostly) but the thick end of 100% in less than a year ! ! !

The other big gripe I have is the rising requirement for more and more resources to just run BobCAD, I have V23,V24,V25,V26 and V27 all on the same PC, I can do the exact same program in V26 and V27 and the toolpath generation and particularly the Modulewerks Simulation is way, way slower, not worth any cash outlay for V27 on that basis alone

Why BobCAD won`t listen to people regarding this aspect of their software is beyond me, almost every other software I have tested has run smoother and faster on my current PC

It is completely pointless for BobCAD to advertise an "affordable" CadCAM solution if the buyer has to go spend x thousand $$$$ just to be able to run it, just about got to the stage of buying the more expensive software and saving on the hardware costs is probably about the same, any increase from BobCAD will inevitably tip the balance towards their competitors in the future, I just do not understand their logic at all

Regards
Rob
:rainfro: :rainfro: :rainfro:

P.S. Nick, I presume "Not yet Optimally Configured" actually means "CRAP" ? ? ?

[BurrMan]

Quite an interesting conversation....

The old volumill? Strictly 2d... Hey, they have a new version that's standalone!!!! It can do 3-5 axis... Maybe you should go request a quote and get back to me!!! lol You know, beings how the price of BobCad is getting so "Hard to swallow" as an affordable choice....

VoluMill NEXION | VoluMill?

Easy and simplistic to implement? Yeah right.. So the comparison has to be a company that is a standalone-dedicated proprietary stategy for fast toolpaths!!! lol

Here's from the volumill website:

Is VoluMill a type of High Speed Machining (HSM)?

Well, yes and no.VoluMill does enable you to run your machine at high speeds, so in the most literal sense it is a form of HSM. But most of today’s HSM techniques use shallow depths of cut, and consequently have much more tool motion than traditional toolpaths; the machine moves faster, but rarely are the parts cut in less time. VoluMill toolpaths take a completely different approach whereby the increased feeds and speeds actually yield significantly shorter cycle times.

So again, if you are such a huge production that not having that "YET", in BobCad is such a CRAP, then go get your bad self a quote....

By the way, the new Nexion release?

VoluMill NEXION is the next generation of VoluMill Universal. It contains major enhancements to virtually every area of the product, from performance, to graphics, to the user interface, many of which are direct responses to input from our valued customers.
•Redesigned Toolpath Manager
•NEW Verification Technology
•NEW Layer Support
•Improved Graphics
•64-bit Processor Support
•Toolpath Improvements
•Improved Rest-Milling
•Improved Geometry Selection
•New Assembly Support for STEP Files
•Improved predictability when chaining boundaries
•Improved Cylindrical Body support
•Thumbnail support
•File Merge consolidated into the File Open dialog as a checkbox option

Looks like they had to make some toolpath improvments? They MUST fix that crap. Graphics improvments and 64 bit? Sure. Trying to keep up with the times. Layer support? Wow!!!! What a game changer!!!! Please let me know your quote so you could get LAYER SUPPORT....

And then again, those that know me know I think Volumill is a great product and my words are purely sarcasm....

BobCads V27 version works really well here.. The verify is also smooth... The HSM on our 4th axis really saves a lot of time.... It will be interesting to see how it changes in the next few years....

I guess you can miss the days when BobCad had to basically give away their next version to existing customers because of the V22 blunder, then also sell it for dirt.. (That must of hurt).

I'm sure glad that I agreed (with Chris R) to see it through and also that they pulled it off. I think this new dev team is really performing extraordinarily! I think the speed at which the dev on the new system is moving is also pretty mind blowing ...

Hey, did you notice that MasterCam X7 has implemented dog legs in their new verification release? I saw that while perusing the threads of all the guys complaining about crashing parts with it and how it "Didn't really dog leg THAT WAY" and the emastercam guy was telling a guy how it's "Not an exact science"..... Hmmm.. Anyone got a quote for X7?

Easy stuff to implement? Well, maybe compete with Celeritive and The MasterCam group and make MILLIONS!!!!

[jrmach]

""Is VoluMill a type of High Speed Machining (HSM)?

Well, yes and no.VoluMill does enable you to run your machine at high speeds, so in the most literal sense it is a form of HSM. But most of today’s HSM techniques useshallow depths of cut, and consequently have much more tool motion than traditional toolpaths; the machine moves faster, but rarely are the parts cut in less time. VoluMill toolpaths take a completely different approach whereby the increased feeds and speeds actually yield significantly shorter cycle times. ""


I don't agree with that statement at all.Part of the idea behind HSM is to use the loc of your cutter.Get more cubic inches of material cut per endmill and do it faster.
I would be interested in what companies they are implying that use that strategy.

Also,the end user makes choices on step over,doc,feed that can effect the outcome.Not to mention the correct cutter and its coating and geometry.Also having a machine capable of "look ahead" and blah,blah..
I guess since HSM is all the rage now a days,,there are many interpretations of exactly what that means.I think HSM is too liberally used.

[nursum]

Hi, there are different techniques of HSM (high speed machining), the old one was to go over the surface very quickly with shallow pathes. Then the HPC (high performance cutting) occured...then TPC (trochoidal performance cutting)... There also exist a different way of the feedrate calkulation, because the feedrate effects the angle of work at the milling tool. For example you can get the same angle at the cutting tool with an circular path and a very high dynamically feedrate adaption or with a constant feedrate and a trochoidal cutting path. In BobCadCam it is not a big deal to adapt the feedrates to increase the speed at the backward movement. Here in the forum a postprocessors skript exists which useses the up and down movement to increase the speed. Maybe I have to change my postprocessors and have to implement this skript...but I'am hoping on BoB that they look at their competitors.....

Ingo (Germany, V27 5-axis PRO user)

[MargoCNC]

Here in the forum a postprocessors skript exists which useses the up and down movement to increase the speed. Maybe I have to change my postprocessors and have to implement this skript...but I'am hoping on BoB that they look at their competitors.....

Ingo (Germany, V27 5-axis PRO user)

So as to my original post, that is exactly what I am here looking for. Would you happen to know we're a chap can find this script to add into my post??
Thanx!!

As for all the other posts......

I am absolutely shocked to hear that older versions of bobcad had this feedrate change in their hsm paths.

And not sure who it was, but they made a comment that this hsm is not broke and working as advertised, you my friend are sorely mistaken. When I can take a 2D depth cut at .2D radial and a chunky clf, I cut machine times in half, but when the return to cut paths are feeding at the same feedrate, you are losing all the time saved from the light fast cuts. So at that point you are left with a broke hsm path that's only half way there. Definitely broke and definitely needs fixed.

Again, thanx guys for all the inputs, and any info I can get on posts or scripts for posts is more than welcomed!!

Thanks