[zook]

Hey:

I thought I would chronical the retrofit of my SM1 CNC to a PC based controller. This is my first, so any help would be appreciated.

I know i am going to have a ton of questions for the forum, so I will apologize in advance.

I have attached a pic of what I’m starting with. It is a 1984 model. I bought it from the original owner with all of the manuals and even some tapes! Other than being a little dirty on the outside (the electronics are sparkling clean) it's in pretty good shape. It even has a couple of new servos. Not a bad deal at $750 huh?

It has the BX controller but that, along with all of the original electronics is going to be sold.

Here's a current rundown of the products I have researched to use:

Hitachi X200 VFD
Bob Cambell combo board OR a CNC4PC c23
Gecko 320 drives (they work with the combo board) The servos are 80v. This is at the upper limit for the drives. Are they going to burn up? If i use the C23 board, i might look at viper drives
Since the servos are tach, I am going to need some encoders. Any suggestions?
I am probobly going to go ahead and replace the limit switches as well. Any suggestions there?
Mach3
I still need a power supply 80v 20 amps. Any suggestions? Do I need a power supply for each servo?

That's where my plan is after a few days of looking/calling around. It is not set in stone, but i would like to start buying some stuff soon. Am I making any big mistakes here? Is all of this going to work together? Any other suggestions? Am I missing any major componentry?

I'll post again when I have some news.

Thanks,

Pat

[springlakecnc]

Hitachi X200 VFD

If you didn’t buy it yet, check out Automation Directs “GS” series frequency drives, you may save a buck. I bought about 10 of them and never had any problems.

Bob Cambell combo board OR a CNC4PC c23

Get Bobs board. I haven’t looked at his instructions lately, they used to be written for an electrical engineer, BUT, It’s well engineered, meaning, I have seen a lot of questions from people about problems they have, that they wouldn’t of had if they bought Bob’s board.

Gecko 320 drives (they work with the combo board) The servos are 80v. This is at the
upper limit for the drives. Are they going to burn up? If i use the C23 board, i might look at viper drives

Either board will run either axis drive. I don’t think Gecko’s will burn up at 80 volts, unless you hook them to those Hurco motors that are way to big for that drive. Do you understand the drawing for enabling the Gecko drive? I do, and I built them, and it works funky 4 sure. Do you have an oscilloscope? Read Gecko’s manual about tuning! Did you study the limited 50ma of 5volt power for the encoder? How much do your encoders draw? If you don’t have a differential encoder, did you read how long (or short) the encoder cable maximum length should be? Do you know how important a pulls multiplier can be? Your answer is “no” to all. Get the Vipers.

Since the servos are tach, I am going to need some encoders. Any suggestions?

Try US Digital, and don’t forget to order the cables with plugs to the length you need and “do” wire up the shielding, its there for a reason. Also they have tech support people that will help you, and they seem to be very happy, even though you are only going to buy 3 encoders, vs some other companies that you have to buy 10 of the same to get a decent price. Ajaxcnc has decent encoders for reasonable also.

I am probably going to go ahead and replace the limit switches as well. Any suggestions there?

If they work, why replace them? Just clean them up. The guys that get all those false limit switch tripping probably ran logic level current through them. Bobs board has 12 volts for the limits.

Mach3

If I could only have one software, it would be Mach3 (I do have it, along with others). Be prepared to spend some time setting it up. I think Bob Campbell has a set up file for his board, for the Mach3, which could save you days. Mach3 runs in Windows XP. Remember, if you plan on mounting your computer on or in the cnc machine, the hard drive will be destroyed. All flash memory solves this problem. Dos or Linux fits on small flash drives, way easier than Windows XP. The pulls stream in Mach3 is really nice, for a charge pump. Personally, unless I’m digitizing something, I use a dos program because I’m a cad cam user, and I just download, set datum zeros, and push cycle start. The Mach3 has all your fancy stuff like engraving and canned cycles that I generate right in my cad cam.


I still need a power supply 80v 20 amps. Any suggestions? Do I need a power supply for each servo?

Keling sells power supplies. I bought a lot of stuff from them, their nice people! If your going to use those Hurco motors, don’t get under a 1,000 Volt Amp power supply (1KVA) and you only need one. And now the bad news, you need the big viper drive. If you insist on using a smaller drive, go on the Rutex web site, and read up on running a servo motor with an under sized drive! Did you look in the Hurco cabinet? Maybe you will get lucky and find a power supply in there! I retrofit a bunch of that model, and someone gave me 4 of those about 2 months ago, but I really didn’t pay attention to what was in the electrical enclosure. BTY, the 4 machines like yours and a Hurco Hawk cnc is worth $1,800 at the metal scrap yard. They were well worn out, or I would have kept them.

Good Luck
Buck

[Al_The_Man]

Since the servos are tach, I am going to need some encoders. Any suggestions?
I am probobly going to go ahead and replace the limit switches as well. Any suggestions there?
Mach3
I still need a power supply 80v 20 amps. Any suggestions? Do I need a power supply for each servo?

Tach and encoders both have different functions, one does not really replace the other, there must have been encoders or resolvers on the original, (resolvers would have to be replaced).
Tach are not used on modern Torque mode amplifiers.
Look on ebay, Renco are dumping NOS for $20.00 each ($150.00 encoders).
Limit switches: I use Microswitch Hermetically sealed 914CE1 style, again ebay.
What is wrong with the original power supply?
Otherwise, search in the forums, there are many posts on putting one together, fairly easy, there is a guy on ebay (again), that is building Toroidal Tfmrs in many configurations, the beauty is, if you get your required servo voltage, an simple overwind can be added for auxiliary supply, i.e. 12~24vac.
Al.

[zook]

Buck:

Thanks you for all of the info!!

Just a few questions:

The Hitachi vfd is $255. The Automotion is $289 on their website. Is there a cheaper place to get them?

Your message about the drives became jumbled up. I do understand most of what the gecko insturctions are talking about. My shop partner has a scope and knows how to use it. You did say that the big hurco (EC) servos would burn up the smaller drives right?

The hurco servo amps take in 120AC. They must each have thier own supply on the amp board. I'll look at the diagrams again tonight.

Thanks again.

pat

[zook]

Tach and encoders both have different functions, one does not really replace the other, there must have been encoders or resolvers on the original, (resolvers would have to be replaced).
Tach are not used on modern Torque mode amplifiers.
Look on ebay, Renco are dumping NOS for $20.00 each ($150.00 encoders).
Limit switches: I use Microswitch Hermetically sealed 914CE1 style, again ebay.
What is wrong with the original power supply?
Otherwise, search in the forums, there are many posts on putting one together, fairly easy, there is a guy on ebay (again), that is building Toroidal Tfmrs in many configurations, the beauty is, if you get your required servo voltage, an simple overwind can be added for auxiliary supply, i.e. 12~24vac.
Al.

Al:

The hurco amps take in 120vac. They must each have thier own power supply. I'll look at the schematics and see if i can pirate them off of the boards. Might be better off selling the amps and buying new power supplies though.

There are no encoders on the servos. I checked both the schematics and the motors themselves. just 2 wires to drive the motor and two wires wired to the tach. What do you think?

Thanks.

Pat

[Al_The_Man]

Might be better off selling the amps and buying new power supplies though.

There are no encoders on the servos. I checked both the schematics and the motors themselves. just 2 wires to drive the motor and two wires wired to the tach. What do you think?
Thanks.
Pat

You probably will be better off getting torque mode amps rather than the existing velocity type (tach feed back).
Just disconnect the tachs and remove the tach brushes.
There must have been some kind of feedback to the CNC controller, either encoders on the ballscrews (or resolvers).
Tach feed back is not positional, only velocity.
Also If you keep the existing amps, you would have to fit step/direction to analogue conversion boards for Mach.
Al.

[123CNC]

Sounds like you may have Randtronic Amps, and of course Al is right. On my little bit newer Huroc than your SM1, the tach/ velocity control loop is feedback to the drive, and encoders feedback to the controller for position.

If your dedicated to the Mach route, then ignore the following. If you know your drives are good, and likely tuned to your servos, another option is to go the EMC2 route with Mesa cards which will give you analog outs to the drive and accept the encoder input back to the PC/ controller. Its an option, which will require a little more investigation on if it is for you.

Al or others may also be able to advise you, but a Galil card (certain models) may also allow you to retain your servo drives and use Mach (requires more investigation).

[jeep534]

the Geko servo drives are not big enough ( current capacity) to run those servo's the larkin drives seem to be the ones currently on the market that will handle the larger servo's and take step and direction imput. Glentek is making one as well but they only want to sell you their drive motor combo.

just another opinion
archie =) =) =)

P.S. there is a guy running a Hurco on larkin drives with info posted here on the Zone in the larkin forum

[DonnieET]

Pat

How your project coming along? I just got a SM-1. If you had the puppy in the back of your truck you had a load! Was that you or Al that had a schematic for the SM-1?

Where did you get the Hitachi vfd? I used several of the Automation direct GS2 drive and had good luck with them.

Donnie

[Buddy1]

The SM1 came with encoders on the X and z motors and an encoder on the y axis ballscrew. Someone may have robbed them. The Hurco Amps and motors are rated for 80vdc. I would not recommend US Digital encoders (unless you are building a conveyor belt. jk). Use something more durable. Why a VFD when the spindle is a vari-drive system.

[DonnieET]

Why the VFD? Have seen the price on a good phase converter? At $289 you get a solid single to three-phase converter that happens to be variable speed. And when the hurco control dies you can easily control speed of the spindle and monitor the motor load with a new control. Plus when the variable sleeve wears out you just replace it with a timing belt and a lot of problems are fixed.

With the way it's looking replacing that BX control maybe soon that later. Anyone have a wiring schematic on a SM-1?

[tjs88yj]

I have the mechanical and wiring schematics for my 1984 SM-1, just a paper copy, what part are you needing? I would like to know how to drive my mill using EMC2 or similar with my current Hurco servo amps.

Tom

[TOTALLYRC]

I have the mechanical and wiring schematics for my 1984 SM-1, just a paper copy, what part are you needing? I would like to know how to drive my mill using EMC2 or similar with my current Hurco servo amps.

Tom

Hi Tom,
If your current servo amps are +-10v analog amps, I am converting my btc-1 using the dspmc/ip from vital systems.

http://www.vitalsystem.com/web/motion/dspmc.php

My build log is here

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66994

I just finished the coolant today and the first cut accuracy was within 1-2 thou. Of course the machine was broken down and reassembled to get it into the building, and I still need to finish adjusting the gibbs.
Also need to see how much backlash there is in the old gal. I also have to learn how to use cutter comp.

I saw the circle diamond square mentioned in another post to check a machines accuracy and I will try that later when I am finished with all the little stuff.

If you have any questions about the control, don' hesitate to ask

Mike

[tjs88yj]

Hi Tom,
If your current servo amps are +-10v analog amps, I am converting my btc-1 using the dspmc/ip from vital systems.

I guess this is what I need to know along with knowing how to wire them. I know that they are functioning, as my mill was running until some of the boards in the control took a dump.

How do I determine if the servo amps are +-10v and the wiring connections. As stated above, I have a bunch of both mechanical and electrical drawings for this mill, but I am a tool & die maker and I struggle with the wiring diagrams. I'm not even sure if they show any of the servo amp specfic wiring.

Thanks

Tom

PS I've read your post (actually prior to the link) as I'm trying to figure out what componets to use for a control retrofit, hopefully using as much of the "good" parts of the mill as practical and possible.

[TOTALLYRC]

I guess this is what I need to know along with knowing how to wire them. I know that they are functioning, as my mill was running until some of the boards in the control took a dump.

How do I determine if the servo amps are +-10v and the wiring connections. As stated above, I have a bunch of both mechanical and electrical drawings for this mill, but I am a tool & die maker and I struggle with the wiring diagrams. I'm not even sure if they show any of the servo amp specfic wiring.

Thanks

Tom

PS I've read your post (actually prior to the link) as I'm trying to figure out what componets to use for a control retrofit, hopefully using as much of the "good" parts of the mill as practical and possible.

Hopefully somebody else knows for sure, but I would guess based on its age that they are 0-10v control amps.
As I am ok at doing this sort of thing, you could always take a picture of the amp were the wiring is and a picture of the diagram showing the wiring and I wll try to figure it out. Send them to my by PM.
Do they have a manufacturers name on them, such as copley,amc,advanced machine controls,galil etc? If so that info and the part # would allow me to figure it out for you.

If the machine ran and you just blew out a board, it will be a lot less time comsuming to do the retro fit than the way I did it. As you saw in my post the dspmc and its breakout boards dont take up that much room so fitting them in where the old stuff is won't be that difficult. Because the breakout boards interface to the dspmc by db25 cables, the boards can be a fair distance from the dspmc.
I called abdul and he is working on the MPG inputs. You will get one MPG input and a switch to select which axis to jog and a jog multpier switch, just like a lot of machines out there. It is not quite as easy to implement a mpg as it is from the pport, but he has the hard parts figured out and I will be testing it this week.
The DSPMC is in late beta but I am having great results so far and will be doing some real machining this week to shake everything down. Keep watching my buid log as I will be posting more pics and videos.

[DonnieET]

Tom

I could use a copy of all the schematic as I have none for my SM-1 Serial # SDK-8006114A.

I can help with the electrical as I’m an industrial control engineer. This is my first with a machine tool. Yes the servo Amplifier is + or – 10 not 0 to 10 With 0 being stop –10 full reverse and +10 full forward. One thing to watch out for is the old servo amps used the +- 10 for velocity (speed) control many of the newer controls use Torque (power) control if you control is out putting torque and your amp looking Velocity you will not get it to work. Been there on transformer coil winder. I have some picture of the control and power cabinet but there to large to attach and I don’t have the software on my PC to resize them. If we have the same cabinets I can help each other. PM me.

Donnie

[eScott]

Any updates on the retrofit? I'm picking up a Hurco SM-1 Monday with the plans to convert it to Mach3. Before I get rid of all the controls, I wanted to make sure I didn't need anything. Do the servo drives NEED to be replaced, or can they be used with Mach3?

[DonnieET]

eScott

I have a SM1 that I converted to EMC2 so that I could keep the servo amps. tjs88yj has one too he when the Mach3 route.

With Mach3 you will only be able to keep the servo power supply witch is the big transformer in the power cabinet and the bridge rectifier and capacitor in the control cabinet. about the only servo drive that can handle the hurco motor is the Vipper200.

DonnieET

[eScott]

Thanks for the reply. I'll start reading up on the EMC2 route.

[KyleH2]

I am curious, can't you just do a tape drive emulator? Wouldn't that be super easy, simple cheap? I mean I know it doesn't give you some of the options that a PC controller does but those seem like a small trade off compared to the simplicity and cost savings.