[spoiledbrat]

Greetings! Not sure if this is still the correct thread, but here goes:

I recently purchased this spindle through a broker from mainland china. I believe it is the same a Keling used to sell. I have the 3.2Kw, 24k rpm, bt-30 atc.

I do not have my vfd wired yet, so I have not tested it. I have played around with the tool change on it, and that brings me to my question.

When applying air, the spindle shaft appears to slide out about 0.015", and retracts when air is removed. Is this normal?



I will post more info once I get this thing running.

Thanks for the help in advance.
Rob

[JerryFlyGuy]

Spoiled, keep us posted on that.. that particular spindle was my spindle of choice also.. just hadn't purchased it yet..

JFG

[spoiledbrat]

Jerry,

Will do. Other than the spindle shaft moving, other issues that I have seen were as follows:

1. Push to connect fittings at the top of the spindle arrived broken. replacements on order
2. Both cable grips (wires exiting the top of the spindle) arrived broken. replacements on order.
3. Poor documentation. there are two puny red wires coming out of the top right next to the main power wires. My broker informed me that they were thermistor wires, but I have no documentation on it, so not sure how I could use that if I wanted to.
4. Placing a test dial in the spindle taper (bt-30) and rotating the shaft by hand showed (guessing here) ~0.00025" of runout. Still better than my porter-cable.

On a positive note, once customs cleared it from china, DHL whipped that thing to me through cincinatti and nashville in about 24hrs. amazing.

Cheers,

Rob

[dwalsh62]

Greetings! Not sure if this is still the correct thread, but here goes:

I recently purchased this spindle through a broker from mainland china. I believe it is the same a Keling used to sell. I have the 3.2Kw, 24k rpm, bt-30 atc.

I do not have my vfd wired yet, so I have not tested it. I have played around with the tool change on it, and that brings me to my question.

When applying air, the spindle shaft appears to slide out about 0.015", and retracts when air is removed. Is this normal?



I will post more info once I get this thing running.

Thanks for the help in advance.
Rob

No, I do not believe it is the same one that Keling used to sell since it had the nose exposed 20mm and yours looks like 3mm.

I bought one similar in appearance to yours and this is the exact reason I returned it (I also looked inside before I did), the air-cylinder is tiny, the piston should be 110mm DIA. not 50mm DIA. but if it was 110mm DIA., it would probably break the spindle and the exterior cylinder housing would be 160mm DIA. minimum which would make your spindle housing around 200mm in DIA. and it doesn't look anywhere near that.

What is the DIA. of the socket, it looks to be 22mm to 25mm.

Movement is due to force being applied to the bearings which is a bad thing and will greatly reduce bearing life and quickly eat up ceramic bearings.

The other issue that bothered me is that it didn't apply sufficient force to hold the tool holder so I would try to measure it and see what it actually has or look in the manual and see if it says.

Here's some comparison data, the Hitachi ATC router supplies 145lbs - 635N.

For ISO 20 I found three forces, 210lbs - 920N (router), 530lbs - 2300N (mill) and 680lbs - 3000N (mill).

For ISO 25 I found 1025lbs - 4500N (mill).

BT 30 expects some serious force (I found two different force ratings depending on manufacturer, 1100lbs - 5000N and 1700lbs - 7500N) so seeing less than 500lbs - 1330N tells me that it doesn't apply enough force to stop the tool holder from slipping (unless it's a router type spindle) but might be sufficient for high-speed cutting of soft materials like wood, nylon etc...

My scale is rated from 500lbs to 3000lbs and it didn't register on the scale so it was less, how much I'm not exactly sure because I don't have a smaller scale or a way to measure lower forces.

[dwalsh62]

Greetings! Not sure if this is still the correct thread, but here goes:

I recently purchased this spindle through a broker from mainland china. I believe it is the same a Keling used to sell. I have the 3.2Kw, 24k rpm, bt-30 atc.

I do not have my vfd wired yet, so I have not tested it. I have played around with the tool change on it, and that brings me to my question.

When applying air, the spindle shaft appears to slide out about 0.015", and retracts when air is removed. Is this normal?



I will post more info once I get this thing running.

Thanks for the help in advance.
Rob

I see your spindle is rated by the manufacturer for wood working and not metal.

I found a BT30 spindle/router which should have the same tool holder force ratings as your wood working spindle from that manufacturer.

BT30 router 275lbs - 1200N, which has a 55mm piston @90psi = 331lbs (more than the 10% over the disengage force requirement).

[diyengineer]

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cn..._settings.html

Ill keep the double posts to a minimum. Settings for the 2.2KW spindle and Hitachi X200 located at the link above.

[NZCNC]

Hi there i would be interested to learn more about the spindle you purchased with the Tool Changer. Today we pulled the VFD apart and discovered a dry solder on one of the main feeds running to the Fets so looking at it and discussing this with the Sparky Fingers crossed is the reason we been getting the over current error as it was evident that the wire was just poked thru the circuit board and had been arching and was black when we pulled it out Im hopping this is the end of this sager might be something to keep and eye on in the future as it was obviously not picked up in the QA process

Tim

[spoiledbrat]

"Instructions" arrived to fix my spindle. With the help of my friend, we were able to decipher something out of this muck...

What they are trying to say, is to remove the piston housing (entire top part), then remove the next outer housing ring as well. Once this is done, the setscrews for adjusting the upper bearing seat (adjustable, using 4 setscrews) is accessible.

The dimension we are going for here is ~0.002" (0.05mm) of axial play in the spindle shaft (taken up by the springs, though. still quite stiff). Mine was set to about 0.030". I have made some adjustments, and the travel is now only 0.001". I will have to take it apart, and try again to hit the 0.002".

By making this adjustment, I was able to close the gap on the nose plate (lower bearing seat).

So, I think I am on my way to having a properly operating ATC spindle.

Cheers!

Rob

[NZCNC]

Hi there
Im interested in your spindle can you please forward me a link as to were you purchased it, Our 4 KW one is causing us some grief so it might not go the distance

Regards

Tim

[spoiledbrat]

PM sent.

[zdrehs]

Hello all, I've been reading this forum for a while but haven't joined so
I guess I'm a newbie here...
This may not be the best thread for this, however,
I'm wanting to upgrade my home built router to a 3kw ATC spindle,
Spoiledbrat could you tell me / us any more about yours?
Maybe a link for a supplier, also how is it performing?

[spoiledbrat]

Spindle is a SPS1130-24Z/3. My total cost, including fast shipping, was $2920. I will PM the email address as requested.

[zdrehs]

Thanks for that spoiledbrat, will be interested to hear how it goes, when you get there.

[spoiledbrat]

Attaching a picture, hoping to hear some opinions.

"Motor Wire" is where the U,V, and W leads for the motor are.
"Sensor Wire" is the tool sensor
"Water In" and "Water Out" are self explanatory
"7 Bar Air Inlet" is the pneumatic piston for the draw bar

This leaves a "6 Bar Air In", and an "Air Outlet"

I believe the "Air Outlet" is the vent for the piston. I also believe the "6 Bar Air In" is the taper clean.

Any thoughts?

Rob

[yngndrw]

If it turns out to be B.S then you should be able to get your money back via PayPal.

Do not rely on PayPal to get your money back, they are full of ****.

Instead pay by credit card and use a charge back to get your money back if you have problems.

I believe the "Air Outlet" is the vent for the piston. I also believe the "6 Bar Air In" is the taper clean.

That sounds reasonable.

From looking at the picture you showed previously, it looks like there is a channel to both the bottom of the cylinder and to the nose.

The taper clean could also provide air for a labyrinth seal or even an oil mist for the bearings.

I really want an ATC spindle like that.

[dwalsh62]

"Instructions" arrived to fix my spindle. With the help of my friend, we were able to decipher something out of this muck...

What they are trying to say, is to remove the piston housing (entire top part), then remove the next outer housing ring as well. Once this is done, the setscrews for adjusting the upper bearing seat (adjustable, using 4 setscrews) is accessible.

The dimension we are going for here is ~0.002" (0.05mm) of axial play in the spindle shaft (taken up by the springs, though. still quite stiff). Mine was set to about 0.030". I have made some adjustments, and the travel is now only 0.001". I will have to take it apart, and try again to hit the 0.002".

By making this adjustment, I was able to close the gap on the nose plate (lower bearing seat).

So, I think I am on my way to having a properly operating ATC spindle.

Cheers!

Rob

Disassembles just like I said a couple of days ago.

Since you're going that far in disassembly, you might as well replace the bearings with ceramic, a worth-while upgrade that is cost-effective and extends service life.

Something you might wish to consider doing is measuring the drawbar full travel and measure the force at 100%, 75% and 50% of the full travel, typical tool holder force is usually at 65% of full travel ratings.

[zdrehs]

Strangely enough, I'm now using a fixed/modified china VFD with one of these bad-boys and it seems to be working properly and I outlined the fixes in detail in another post.

The issue with the china VFD is electrical (under) design limits, I fixed one for someone else and then realized it's not that bad considering they copied Mitsubishi and Hitachi and a little work will cure it's problems so I picked one up, went through it and connected it and for the last couple of weeks it has not farted.

I made copper reinforcing traces which I covered with heat-shrink tubing to beef up the current capabilities of the power board, doubled the fets like the Mitsubish and changed the 14ga solid copper wire for 10ga stranded wire (12ga needed but couldn't find any around the shop) and that makes the VFD more than adequate, cost of VFD, $84.00, cost of parts, $25.00, about an hour to do all the work.

dwalsh, can you tell or show us more about whats involved in doubling the
FETs on the power board, I have one I want to beef up, I have the gear &
patience to do it, but I don't have a Mitsi one to compare with.
Are the extra FETs simply paralelled with the existing ones or what?
Any pics to help?

Grateful for any help...

[dwalsh62]

dwalsh, can you tell or show us more about whats involved in doubling the
FETs on the power board, I have one I want to beef up, I have the gear &
patience to do it, but I don't have a Mitsi one to compare with.
Are the extra FETs simply paralelled with the existing ones or what?
Any pics to help?

Grateful for any help...

The fets are pretty much in parallel, there is a pair of resistor on the gate that makes it better for load distribution I recommend adding if you want the best performance but not 100% required.

Fixing the traces is simply a matter of tracing out the existing traces for the fets in 1/16th copper sheet (extend some areas to include material to hit the PCB for soldering, remove sharp edges, slip on some heat-shrink tubing and shrink, solder on top of existing trace and current capacity is increased significantly without fear of burning the traces up, adding the fets provides a more stable current capability and load distribution which generates less heat thus improving the quality of the product with minimal modification.

You don't have to use coper sheet, you can use copper wire since this modification isn't visible and you're only fixing current capacity.

The three 560uf 460V filter capacitors provided worked in the tests with very good results however, I have since changed them for three better quality capacitors just to be safe since this is a part that seems to fail due to low quality and I had them kicking around and want the thing to work without repeated repairing.

Oh, while I'm recalling all that I did to it, if you examine the clearances between the heat-sink and capacitors you will see that this needs a little more clearance in some areas to stop the heat-sink from cooking the capacitors (touching is bad for longevity) and is also an easy fix that increases life (machine slowly, the fins are thin).

I have recently changed the fan to a squirrel cage fan (HP part number RH7-1056 - picture below snagged from ebay to show style) I grabbed from a box of new parts saved from my days of servicing HP LaserJet printers which covers more surface area, makes less noise, fairly cheap and more effective over the current one (can buy new shipped for less than $15.00 USD on ebay) and the pins in the plug fit the plug from the existing fan so switching the plugs required a pin to move the little plastic tab while pulling the wire out, I made an aluminum shield to hide the motor and cage to give a more factory appearance and that sums up all of the changes/modifications I made to it.

[diyengineer]

Wired my single phase to 3 phase Hitachi X200 3hp VFD with 10 gauge wire (which is reccomended in the manual).

From the VFD to the spindle i plan on using 14 gauge shielded.

How are people going about attaching the cable to the plug shown attached below? Soldering? quick disconnects? They appear to have possible connections for small push on fittings of some sort. Pictures anyone?

Also has anyone found a more industrial plug with that hole pattern to replace the cheap plastic one?

thanks

[cornbinder23]

those look like solder cup style terminals, just pre tin both cup and wire and fuse together

JTCUSTOMS