[Cruiser]

I just had a series of changes, one of which was my pc got hammered. I put together a new one with an AMD phenom @ 3010 Hz so now proc speed is no issue. I discovered that due to the Pci slots I had to use, that the addresses didn't want to play nice with Mach, this may well have been due to a changes in the BIOS and I couldn't deal with it, so I ordered the Smooth Stepper board. I had a number of issues going on all at the same time, so the set-up wasn't painless, but I found an old enemy hiding in the shadows and re-gained my mach settings then did the finish tune-in with the SS and I am happy as clam.
I just wanted to say that the SS using the usb port is clean and works good. With mach set at 25,000, SS takes over and provides more servo driving potential than I could use or feel safe with. If with the advent of new computers making it more difficult to use the parallel ports then the SS really would solve the problem and even without that it is still an excellent choice.
I have had many issues with breakout boards and with that was a bit apprehensive about the change, but now that I'm running it as stated above I'm a happy camper and ready to get back to making chips fly.
In closing I really want to say that the machine has never run so smoothly or strong as it is right now. I'm hoping it isn't too soon to say this as I always seem to end up with an unhappy aftermath. Time will tell the story for sure. Also the cost of the SS may seem high but the results seem well worth every cent so far !

[Ranscon]

I,ve been trying to get more opinions on the SS as I think it will help my problem. My machine runs great at 36 ipm but much more and the motors stall. I've been trying to get my feeds up. I would be very happy at 80-100 ipm. What do you think the SS would do? Also been considering dampers but cannot find out how to calculate size and weight.

Thanks, Jeff

[Cruiser]

Jeff, 36 sounds slow to begin with so my guess is that there is another week link like either the motors or the power supply or just the load involved. The SS can only work with what you have. It don't perform miracles. When tuning in my IH mill I noticed a bit of speed increase while re-tuning motors. But not a lot of change, Mine went from about 120 to 140 now. The biggest change is that now my problems are solved and it runs solid again. I had an errant ground for quite a while and only found and fixed it yesterday. I also had a wire set which I replaced with shielded which quieted a noise issue. Those were the miracles, in finding the solutions needed. Maybe having the new PC helps too. I'm just happy that no more gremlins are making life miserable for me, or else maybe there just waiting in the shadows. OH No !

[Randall]

Cruiser
nice to hear about your smooth steepr experience so far, may have to look at that as my older computer is getting less reliable. thanks for your input and good luck.
Randy

[EvanVH]

Cruiser

I am glad to see that you are up and running. (faultless? ) I am looking forward to see your mill making chips.

These questions are for everybody. So chime in.

First off don't think I am speed crazy. I just want to learn.

I understand that with a SS board you can increase your ipm to a crazy point. You can not get something for nothing.(?) So what are you giving up when you are running a SS board, with the kernel speed set at 25000hz, with a table speed of say 100ipm?

I was watching a video from artsoft's web site. (installation and basic configuration) The video stated (very persistently) to set your kernel speed @ 25000HZ. Change it only if you have to.

If you are running a parallel port system at this kernel speed how fast can you move your table. (80ipm?) How reliable is the system?

What about computer processor speed. Will this allow a more aggressive kernel speed.

What kernel speed are you guys running with a parallel port or with a SS board.


Thanks guys


Evan

[ger21]

When using the PP, the kernel speed is the max steps per second that Mach can output. with a fast PC, mach can run at 100Khz, or 100,000 steps per second.

With the SS, you set the kernel speed in Mach3 at 25Khz, but that's NOT the speed the SS is using. The SS can output up to 4Mhz, or 4,000,000 steps/sec.

The advantage to using the SS, is that it takes most of the load off the CPU, so you don't need a really fast PC to get really fast step rates. You also get smoother, more consistent steps, which may let you're motors run a little smoother and faster. However, if you're machine is running good with the PP, you may not see any speed increase. There is nothing in the SS to magically make your motors faster or more powerful. The other advantage to the SS is that if you don't have a parallel port, you don't need it. the SS uses a USB connection.

The disadvantage of using the SS right now, is that it's still a beta product, as some features are not yet working correctly. However, a lot of people seem to be using them and are very happy with them.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

When using the PP, the kernel speed is the max steps per second that Mach can output. with a fast PC, mach can run at 100Khz, or 100,000 steps per second.

With the SS, you set the kernel speed in Mach3 at 25Khz, but that's NOT the speed the SS is using. The SS can output up to 4Mhz, or 4,000,000 steps/sec.

The advantage to using the SS, is that it takes most of the load off the CPU, so you don't need a really fast PC to get really fast step rates. You also get smoother, more consistent steps, which may let you're motors run a little smoother and faster. However, if you're machine is running good with the PP, you may not see any speed increase. There is nothing in the SS to magically make your motors faster or more powerful. The other advantage to the SS is that if you don't have a parallel port, you don't need it. the SS uses a USB connection.

The disadvantage of using the SS right now, is that it's still a beta product, as some features are not yet working correctly. However, a lot of people seem to be using them and are very happy with them.

There's VERY little in the SS that isn't working properly at this point. The only thing I can think of is rigid tapping on a mill, which is coming. Threading on a lathe has been working for some time. AFAIK, all the other mill functionality is working perfectly at this point.

I've had a SS since last Sept, and it's been great. My rapids went from 120IPM on X/Y and 25IPM on Z to 400IPM on X/Y and 75IPM on Z, all are now limited by the motors. Installation was absolutely painless - literally less than 5 minutes, and it worked perfectly on the first try, with *no* reconfiguration of Mach3.

Reliability has been excellent, despite the fact that until a few weeks ago I was running on a lousy 540MHz PC. I've had a few bugs, but they were corrected quickly after I reported them, and I haven't experienced any problems at all in some time.

To me, it was worth the money several times over.

Regards,
Ray L.

[LUCKY13]

I also just fired up a SmopthStepper with my new system I am building. I was very worried about what I would lose, and if what I gained was worth it. In the end I found I dont lose the things I was worried about, and updates are still coming through for the SS so I feel its not going to have anything that will be lost in time.



As for my system even though its still in the bench testing stage I will have to say I am impressed with this board. I am kinda like Cruiser though I hope it doesnt bite me later, although it doesnt look like this will happen. I can get about any speed I want out of this system, while running 25,000 settings in Mach3. I even had it running 330imp while playing around on the bench but I opt for much lower settings in the end.

My exact setup will be 40,000 steps per unit with a 4 to 1 belt/gear drive. This only gives me 180imp rapids at the settings I am using with the velocity but it is so smooth its not even funny and the power and response is simply amazing. I was able to run a bench test with the Road Runner code with 175ipm cutting speed with no faults what so ever and the motors where trying to jump off the bench where the response was so intense. Slow speeds (so slow you can bairly see the shafts moving) is so smooth I cant believe it. My motors have not even been tuned with a scope yet and this system is just surprizingly smooth running with response that I am unsure if the mill will be able to handle without turning back some power.


I personally now feel like it would be hard to beat the SS for what it does. I will have to agree with Cruiser on your system, it sounds like you have other problems that need worked out first. The Smoooth STepper will supply better & smoother signals at a much faster speed than a PP port. But it will not cure a system that needs problems fixed unless those problems are with the PP point and Mach3 signal limitations. I would guess that power supply, Dampers/balancer/flywheel for the steppers,tunning, or just bad screws and ways/slides would be something you need to look into first. Its my guess that adding damper/flywheels would be a first thing I would try on your system. After all your problems are worked out a SS would be a very good thing to add. I can even run mine on a old 500mhz laptop I have so the SmoothStepper really helps with what kinda computer you can get away with. Its worth it for that along IMHO.



Putting the SS in line with my system was just as HimyKabibble said, its painless and doesnt take any time to get setup and working. The choice of breakout boards to run with the SS seems to be something to watch, HimyKabibble had a little problem he had to cure with his BOB but it was not that big of a deal and its working great now according to him (the BOB could not send signals as fast as the SS could use). I used a Bob Campbell Combo board and it has worked seemless with the SS. It made for such a clean install I just love it so far. I am still learning about Mach3, the SS and even CNC so it may get even better as I learn how to setup things. I have 4 axis, Charge Pump, Spindle control, coolant pump, limit and homing switches working so far and there has been no problems what so ever yet. Really for what the SS cost its really cheap if you look at how good it works and the fact that you end up with 3 PP ports coming out of it to work with so pins, I/O either one, are no problem, there are plenty of them.






One thing about the SS though is it will blow if it gets more than 5.5v feeding it ( even states this in the SS docs). We have seen one person on the forum that had a A/C power surge and it appears like it was responsible for blowing his SS. I power mine off the USB port and I feel like this is a much safer way to power the SS. It can feed 5v across the pin 26 on the PP port but I would not use it to power any other board this way. It can be power from another board through the pin 26 but you need to pay close attention to the jumper settings when doing this. The safest way is to power it off the USB port and there is a grouind jumper that should have close attention payed to also, no matter how you setup the power circuit. I did not let the SS ground to the chassy and I feel like this might be best, I left its ground floating. I have not had any signal noise problems with it this way, not that I had any the other way of powering it, or grounding it, but chances are greater if you do power it with external power or through pin 26, or if the ground is not left floating. With a max power limit of 5.5v I feel like its not worth the chance of exteral power. Even though a USB port could screw up and supply more the chances are much slimmer and chances of any problems out side of the computer like higher voltage stuff shorting out and getting to the SS is much less with USB power & a floating ground.



Jess

[Randall]

Do you rally need a breakout board with the smooth stepper?
Randy

[ger21]

From what I read a few weeks ago, slaved axis homing requires one side to be shifted before homing, as the two axis can't home at the same time.

[EvanVH]

Thanks guys for the input. Sounds like the way to go.


Jess what do you mean by a floating ground?? The member that burned up a SS what kind of protection did the computer have??



Evan

[Cruiser]

OK, now I feel better today !
Evan, I would recommend to set-up on the Pport first ! If you want to play with the SS you can always do it later and easily go back and forth between either system. I had a peak speed on Pport using 45khz @120ish IPM with a potential of 135 limit in Mach motor tune. Going above 120 ipm i faulted Z and sometimes X or Y. But I made many many little wiring changes recently too. I felt comfortable at 110 ipm and run there. Now with the SS and the wiring changes, (Major Improvement) I find that motor tuning shows a peak potential of 142 IPM, on X & Y that I could use, but it faulted the geckos trying to go any above that and now I have 139.98 ipm on x & y and 112.02 ipm on z and I've never had Z stable above that in Pport and to be quite honest, when the tool is rapiding up to the work with an expensive tool at that it can be unnerving especially when you bury a few tools from brain farts or programming errors. For the little bit of increase here I'd be more willing to say the increase was more directly related to adding a few needed ground wires than adding the SS.
As for needing or requiring a break out board lets define the term some. A break out board is anything used for wire termination to the Pport ! So, Yes ! You must have a Pport breakout board of some type. All I use is a very simple termination board that has no other built in systems. I had (still have it) a combo board that I removed because of noise issues going on and not knowing where they were coming from I blamed the combo board but that may not be very honest now.
My numbers above are driving the machine and real numbers. Not just free spinning motors on the bench. As for any advantages from Pport or SS ! I'd have to say that at this point in time it is a close call. If I could have figured out how to get my port addresses to be accepted by mach I'd be Pport still. I'm sure that there is a way of configuring it but this is a new bios and I couldn't find it, so SS was my way to deal with it.
I suppose I should qualify some of my wiring changes statement, so ! I have a bit of fear with grounds as they can be just as devastating as an errantly placed Hot connection. So, I went without a few simple grounds that were needed but I didn't know it for sure. I finally said THWI and hooked up four grnds and replaced another wire-set with shielded and nothing smoked and all got much quieter. It appeared that the SS was more sensitive to the unbalance and resisted my efforts till this was done. These were just simple chassis grnd's that I didn't expect much from but really made a difference. Before I start rapiding a tool I'll slow down my x and y to about the same rate as z and as for being happy camper YES ! But I'm happy just to be up and running again after chasing my tail for longer than I really want to admit to.
I just re read above and got confused, so if your confused then good ! my job is done.
Time to go out to shop and do something, even if it wrong.

[JB Laser Tech]

I was trying to use a Notebook computer with Mach 3 and it just wouldn't run right. The motors were stalling above 36 ipm. Notebook bus systems are to slow. You have to use a tower that is 1 Ghz or higher and 1 Gb of memory. I hope that helps you.

[Cruiser]

JB, It may be that your not getting the 5volts out of lap top too, 3.5v seems to really effect things. Your right tho in that your system is limited greatly with the laptop and with that you may see an advantage using SS and be able to reach your machines true limits. You didn't state what your machine is that I recall and your limits may be totally differant than what we are getting with our IH systems.

[JB Laser Tech]

My problem was solved as soon as I switched to a 2.2 Ghz tower.
I talked to Art who designed Mach3 and he told me not to use a Notebook under any circumstance.
I have a 2' x 3' Router table. I can do speeds of 60 to 70 ipm. That’s fast enough for me. I mostly work with abs and 1/8th inch aluminum.

[JB Laser Tech]

What are the size of your motors and what controller are you using?
I'm located in Surrey, just outside Vancouver, Canada.

[Cruiser]

My motors are about 8" and the controllers are the black ones !

[EvanVH]

My motors are about 8" and the controllers are the black ones !

????




Evan

[JB Laser Tech]

I mean, how many amps/phase and Oz.inch. is each motor.
Did the controller come with your mill or is it a Xylotex?
Are you using Mach3?

[Cruiser]

The motors are supposed to be custom and I have no specs ! They just strong ! gecko 320's and 70 + volts @ 20 amps. It is an IH mill with IH provided complements as posted on the IH site. Although there has been many changes since my machine was purchased a few yrs ago, it is still basically the same thing. I modified mine with a belt drive spindle and Z slide rails, other than that it is stock and today I am officially back to making chips. If more information is required do a few searches back in the archives, it is all there.