[stepperhead]

hello there,

I have been using solidworks for a couple of years now and have learned how to make is spin pretty good. the copy I was using was not exactly legal..... I thought to myself that it was time to purchase the program because it had lived up to all my expectations and actually can do alot more that I thought possible. Well you can imagine my surprise when I learned what this program costs!!!!! It costs 4000 for basic, 6000 for pro and 8000 whopping dollars for premium, with an additional 2000$ if you want any tech support and updates for a year. Now I understand that this program could be worth it for a company that is making money and I am not complaining about the price. but I am not a company and am not making any money with my new found skill. I want to know could it be worth it??? could I purchase this program and somehow freelance some design work in order to pay for the program if nothing else? It seems that it could take a long time to earn that much cake. Maybe I am wrong....

what is your experience? Is anyone here a freelance designer? could I earn this much in a timely manner(like within a year). where would I even find work like this? The reseller told me that 5-15% of his customers are private joe blows like me, and that it seems to work for them. This sounds like a sales pitch to me.

I want to be all legal with this program but I am not sure if I can. I would have to finance a purchase like this and would hate to lose my money.

maybe I should be thinking of alternatives?

what do you think??

thanks for your reply in advance.

mac

[helocat]

hello there,

I have been using solidworks for a couple of years now and have learned how to make is spin pretty good. the copy I was using was not exactly legal..... I thought to myself that it was time to purchase the program because it had lived up to all my expectations and actually can do alot more that I thought possible. Well you can imagine my surprise when I learned what this program costs!!!!! It costs 4000 for basic, 6000 for pro and 8000 whopping dollars for premium, with an additional 2000$ if you want any tech support and updates for a year. Now I understand that this program could be worth it for a company that is making money and I am not complaining about the price. but I am not a company and am not making any money with my new found skill. I want to know could it be worth it??? could I purchase this program and somehow freelance some design work in order to pay for the program if nothing else? It seems that it could take a long time to earn that much cake. Maybe I am wrong....

what is your experience? Is anyone here a freelance designer? could I earn this much in a timely manner(like within a year). where would I even find work like this? The reseller told me that 5-15% of his customers are private joe blows like me, and that it seems to work for them. This sounds like a sales pitch to me.

I want to be all legal with this program but I am not sure if I can. I would have to finance a purchase like this and would hate to lose my money.

maybe I should be thinking of alternatives?

what do you think??

thanks for your reply in advance.

mac

SW is a nice program but yes spendy. Alternatives would be Alibre. Full support and updates for a fraction of the cost over all.

[BurrMan]

You lost me at "I steal Solidworks!"

[stepperhead]

Excuse me 'burrman' but I don't think you understand my diction. I re-read my post and could not find the words "I steal solidworks" anywhere! Are you calling me a thief??? that's just flaming rudeness. Last I checked it is entirely legal to share in Canada. thank goodness because in the land of ice and snow we are a little kinder than others. There is a big debate right now in this country about this very topic and as it turns out we are allowed to share with each other. hurray for friendship and kindness.

This is a topic that is not what this post is about.

This topic is about the fact that I am about to put down more money on software than I have ever payed for a vehicle, food for my children, or my mortgage for a year!!! I may have to resign myself to the 'havenots' of the world unless I can figure this out.

please help me with constructive criticism only,

thanks,
mac

[BurrMan]

I guess the debate in Canada is: "Should we be allowed to STEAL someone elses property without paying for it because we are typical arrogant socialists that believe we are entitled?"

Dont lecture me on being poor dirtbag.

[Chrliev]

Please resist being a victim (Havenot?)

The price of SolidWorks is relatively inexpensive compared to the value that I get from it. It costs hundreds of millions to develop software like this. It also costs millions of dollars to develop a new car and someone has to pay for it, in this case its the people who buy and drive the cars. Would you get into someone elses car and "borrow" it for a while...? Will nice Canadians allow you to share their cars in the land of ice and snow, or is it just when its someone else's property that's being shared and then its ok...? In most countries maybe not in Canada, I don't know your laws, borrowing without permission is also known as stealing, but I digress...

As for "constructive" criticism, yes the software is worth far more than $4,000. I make a lot of money as a consultant/designer/CNC programmer and SolidWorks is not even close to the most expensive piece of software that I own, all of mine are legally licensed and paid for. In case you are wondering I started out far from rich, though I make a good living now, it was tough getting there and some months are still challenging but I paid up...

[CNC Lurker]

Please resist being a victim (Havenot?)

The price of SolidWorks is relatively inexpensive compared to the value that I get from it. It costs hundreds of millions to develop software like this. It also costs millions of dollars to develop a new car and someone has to pay for it, in this case its the people who buy and drive the cars. Would you get into someone elses car and "borrow" it for a while...? Will nice Canadians allow you to share their cars in the land of ice and snow, or is it just when its someone else's property that's being shared and then its ok...? In most countries maybe not in Canada, I don't know your laws, borrowing without permission is also known as stealing, but I digress...

Comparing Solidworks to a car is not a valid comparison. If I buy a car, I can sell it to whomever I want, but that is not the case with SW. Basically you are leasing the license not buying it, so it is not a vary easy thing for one company to sell it to another, and even harder for an individual to sell it to another.

Luckily I can legally use SW at home:

The SolidWorks license agreement states that if the license is permanently installed on the hard disk or other storage device of a computer (other than a network server) and one person uses that computer more than 80% of the time it is in use, then that person may also use the Software on a portable or home computer.

As for the OP question, you may not be able to find enough freelance work to pay for SW if you have only tinkered with it at home. Some companies require ANSI or other standard, as well as having knowledge in there field, whether mechanical, structural, or a niche field such as sheet metal.

I'm not saying it's impossible to freelance and be profitable, but it does help having friends in the right places to keep you busy.

If you want to buy a legal copy of an affordable CAD program, look into one of the lower-end programs such as TurboCAD or Alibre:
Alibre LINK
TurboCAD LINK

[KevinWilkins]

So the OP has been learning and using the program for a COUPLE OF YEARS and just suddenly realized that actually BUYING IT costs a LOT OF MONEY! Gimme a break.

At least he just publicly confessed to software piracy. "Book him Danno!"

[Chrliev]

Although all of my software is legal, I believe that people like this guy, who use pirated software do a lot to increase market penetration for software and ultimately increase the legitimate user base. Software protection schemes have always ruined sales, it has something to do with the human condition of getting something free...

During the 90's the most pirated CNC programming software in the US was MasterCam, now its installed user base makes it the leading software in CNC Programming. It's no coincidence people will eventually buy or otherwise obtain the software that they know best.

Anyone want to guess as to how all that bootlegged software got released in the first place...?

[KevinWilkins]

Ah OK. Does that mean then that if I go out and steal Porsches that will increase their "market share" and Porsche should -thank me?- Duh.

Ever see that remake of "Starsky and Hutch" where Snoop Dog's character already has a car from the next model year and when asked where he got it, he says "I know some people who know some people who robbed some people."

That's where cracked software comes from... And a lot of it now comes out of eastern Europe and installs some nice little extras with crack.

[BurrMan]

Although all of my software is legal, I believe that people like this guy, who use pirated software do a lot to increase market penetration for software and ultimately increase the legitimate user base. Software protection schemes have always ruined sales, it has something to do with the human condition of getting something free...

During the 90's the most pirated CNC programming software in the US was MasterCam, now its installed user base makes it the leading software in CNC Programming. It's no coincidence people will eventually buy or otherwise obtain the software that they know best.

Anyone want to guess as to how all that bootlegged software got released in the first place...?

Thats a misnomer and a very irritating statement. Mastercam had to dump HUGE bucks into saving their software.. Actually, the REASON it is the most used CAM system is because it has put a HUGE effort into marketing, especially at the "Student/education" level, which has the workforce exiting as proficient and ready. The companies doing the work purchase it as it is a competent CAM system and the workforce is there and trained...From the COLLEGE arena...not your description of the crack community... That is the montra on the crackers...It's not a contribution... Just a misguided justification.

The only thing you have JACKWAD to thank for is the security, licensing/locking schemes that are placed on the rest of US.. Nothing more.

[joeybagadonuts]

BurrMan,

Who is "JACKWAD", is he a member here on the CNC Zone?

JoeyB

[CNC Lurker]

stepperhead, if you have learned anything, it's that if you ever want to turn over a new leaf, change your ways, and become an honest person and try and do things right, don't do it in this forum unless you want to be name-called, berated, and personally attacked.

Oh yeah, don't bring your dog around or you might get your dog kicked and your car scratched.

Other than that, have you looked into the CAD links I posted earlier or did you get run off?

[BurrMan]

stepperhead, if you have learned anything, it's that if you ever want to turn over a new leaf, change your ways, and become an honest person and try and do things right, don't do it in this forum unless you want to be name-called, berated, and personally attacked.

Oh yeah, don't bring your dog around or you might get your dog kicked and your car scratched.

Maybe you should re-read what went on here... He came in stateing that he's been stealing the software.. I posted a simple "that looses my support" statement, as it does...

He then responded by Attacking me and posting his diatribe about how great CANADA is because they are in debates about stealing peoples properly legally!!!

I responded.. He is Jackwad by the way...

Now you post up here about "poor him, and trying to turn over a new leaf?" and how "I would be the one to kick his dog and scratch his car?"

Never held a dog accountable for a stupid owner and never would.. Never was so small minded as to "scratch someones car" for any reason.

I guess it's a charactor issue.. I pay for everything I have. If I cant pay for it, i dont get it...NO EXCUSES. But surely there are growing numbers of people in the world that think they are entitled.. Thats sad.

[CNC Lurker]

Maybe you should re-read what went on here... He came in stateing that he's been stealing the software.. I posted a simple "that looses my support" statement, as it does...

He then responded by Attacking me and posting his diatribe about how great CANADA is because they are in debates about stealing peoples properly legally!!!

I responded.. He is Jackwad by the way...

Now you post up here about "poor him, and trying to turn over a new leaf?" and how "I would be the one to kick his dog and scratch his car?"

Never held a dog accountable for a stupid owner and never would.. Never was so small minded as to "scratch someones car" for any reason.

I guess it's a charactor issue.. I pay for everything I have. If I cant pay for it, i dont get it...NO EXCUSES. But surely there are growing numbers of people in the world that think they are entitled.. Thats sad.

Everybody is entitled to there opinion, but I find the cost of MCAD interesting.

I've been using MCAD for years. I was using Mechanical Desktop before it was called MDT; it was called Designer I believe. People started complaining because Autodesk started using the extra cost it was charging for MDT and used it for R&D for there new program called Inventor. There were bugs in MDT, but Autodesk shifted their MCAD team to Inventor and the companies that had paid $thousands were left with a program that was not exactly stable. Eventually MDT was dropped and Inventor was used. Actually Inventor was given away with the last releases of MDT.

On to Solidworks.

In the early days of SW, companies were complaining because SW kept on releasing buggy software. Sure it was new, but rather than releasing a new version of SW every couple of years like Autodesk did with MDT, SW started releasing new versions yearly. Even though users paid $thousands for SW, they were guinea pigs for an unstable product.

The reason SW started releasing new versions yearly was to get people onto their maintenance program to get new service packs. So basically when you bought SW, you got a 90% working program, but if you want the fixes, you have to pay extra for them with a yearly maintenance subscription.

If you buy a new car, you expect it to start when you put the key in, and function as it was supposed to. If a new car doesn't work, there are lemon laws in place that are supposed to protect you. If there is a major problem with a vehicle, manufacturers have a recall to fix there mistake. They don't charge you extra for their mistakes (like a service pack in SW).

If you are a member of any major SW forum, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. Read this blog as a refresher: Matt Lombard, author of the Solidworks Bible 2009 & 2010 LINK

One could say that "My program "X" costs so much because of piracy", but I have to question whether or not that is the actual reason.

[BurrMan]

Everybody is entitled to there opinion, but I find the cost of MCAD interesting.

In the early days of SW, companies were complaining because SW kept on releasing buggy software. Sure it was new, but rather than releasing a new version of SW every couple of years like Autodesk did with MDT, SW started releasing new versions yearly. Even though users paid $thousands for SW, they were guinea pigs for an unstable product.

The reason SW started releasing new versions yearly was to get people onto their maintenance program to get new service packs. So basically when you bought SW, you got a 90% working program, but if you want the fixes, you have to pay extra for them with a yearly maintenance subscription.

If you buy a new car, you expect it to start when you put the key in, and function as it was supposed to. If a new car doesn't work, there are lemon laws in place that are supposed to protect you. If there is a major problem with a vehicle, manufacturers have a recall to fix there mistake. They don't charge you extra for their mistakes (like a service pack in SW).

If you are a member of any major SW forum, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. Read this blog as a refresher: Matt Lombard, author of the Solidworks Bible 2009 & 2010 LINK

One could say that "My program "X" costs so much because of piracy", but I have to question whether or not that is the actual reason.

No doubt people can be upset as they follow through with development over the years..

"Maintenance and direct server licensing schemes" are a direct result of round tables on "how to get paid for our product" (Remember MC...The most pirated software???)

The cost you pay today is also impacted... A good portion is a result of piracy.. It would be cheaper for all of us if this didnt have to be dealt with.. You DO understand this, dont you??

No matter HOW POOR i am, and I know poor..... I would never take something that didnt belong to me... "Especially from my neighbor". I am kind and care for my friends and neighbors. I have respect for them, and self respect...

Let's recognize WHO HERE is the one that will scratch your car!

There are many avenues available to people who want to work for, and earn what they get....There are countless stories of people in my country, who come here with "NOTHING" and are very sucessful. There is an underlying theme with those, and it's NOT "take when it suits me"....

Trying to justify the position, with any stories of faults and failures on the companies part, is a losers position...

[BPR]

Aloha all,

I am a new member of the Zone, and I have been doing research on mills for the last few months. I stumbled on this thread today and couldn't resist adding my 2 cents.

I was a CAD distributor for ArchiCAD for many years and I know this subject well. I think everyone is getting their noses tweaked for no reason here. First of all, pirated software both hurts and helps publishers, it just depends where you are in market share at the time. I am also an architect and I can tell you that AutoCAD became the market leader in the US because it was pirated so much in the early days, that it became the standard. Every large firm bought it and created such an installed base that they couldn't change even after they realized that AutoCAD was a dog compared to others like ArchiCAD. Even today they lose every CAD shootout they enter.

But I digress... my point is that once a product becomes hugely successful, then they start to lose sales (not money per se) and it forces them to step up security to keep even legitimate users from straying. It also makes the legitimate owners feel better about their investment if they know they are not the only ones paying for it.

Which brings me to security! If a company really wants to keep their products secure, they should use a hardware protection scheme like a dongle (USB Key) that makes the only pirated versions hacked versions. With every maintenance release or bug fix, they have to be hacked again making it a pain in the ass to stay current. This is an advantage to the owner as well, since he can install the software on multiple machines, but only one user can run it at a time. Its nice to be able to use the software at the office, then take your key home and night and finish working on your home computer, etc.

This is the one thing I don't like about SolidWorks. If you own it (leasing) you should be able to run it on any machine you choose using a key. Finally, for the pirate, if you truly want to be successful with the software, buy it! If legitimate firms find out you are using hacked software, they won't want to do business with you at the very least. At worst, someone will turn you in, and you'll be prosecuted. Believe me, you are the type that they love to make an example of (cheap to prosecute)!

Mahalo!

FYI, I know this isn't the right thread, but for those interested, I just found out today that Mikini as in Mikini CNC mills is "Machine" in Hawaiian!

[stepperhead]

Jackwad here,

well, I have to say that I didn't start this thread to start a debate about piracy... let me give you some background on me. a couple of years ago I didn't even know what the acronym CAD even meant, let alone cam or g-code. This is has all been a very steep learning curve. I entered this arena because my intensely inventive mind saw the potential of using a cnc machine. I am basically a computer noob as well. I am in the process of building a cnc machine of my own. well, entering such an hugely intense hobby without knowing a thing, I asked for help. A friend sported me an old version of solidworks to play with, and here I find myself, looking for more advice. I live on a remote island and most people I talk to don't even know what a cnc is. I need places like this in order to make this thing a reality.

on the topic of piracy... I don't like the car theft analogy, the car is a tangible item that when photocopied loses all functionality. I like to think of it more like a seeing a beautiful building and taking a picture of it. you may want to build that building using the picture, or you may want to frame it and put it on your wall enjoying the beauty another day, or you may just get bored of it and throw the picture in the trash. the building still exists. Or like a song you recorded on the radio that you would like to listen another day. I am no thief, but its not what you stole a copy of, its where you take it, and what you do with it that matters. Everything humans have and use has been 'stolen' from the previous generation, the beauty comes from what we do with our lives with all of the stuff we were left with. If I had never touched solidworks then I would be none the wiser and probably never purchase such a thing. but now that I have seen the CAD light I am actually considering such a purchase, maybe even a career change. I am taking this hobby of mine to unforetold places making this earth a better place. at first I failed to see the constructive part to all this criticism but now I see that this is something that we all have to go through. thanks to all of you. enjoy

cnc lurker, yes I did check out the links that you posted, do you have experience with these programs? how do they compare? they look promising.
buying software with out using it first would be like marrying a girl before actually living with her first.

Jackwad if you wish but I prefer

mac

thanks

[Chrliev]

Mac,

I like your analogies. The name calling is a little childish, but you seem like a good sport... Like I said it's all good. Many people start out like you, later when they work in this field they will either recommend or eventually buy the software that they are familiar with. If you don't go into this field it doesn't matter because the software is of no value to you.

In the field of CNC software, sharing (Piracy?), often turns into a try it before you buy it experience. Your questions confirm this, you, like me would obviously be loathe to buy something you couldn't test drive first.

I know many MasterCam users who started out just like you. They got MasterCam because it was what they already knew, every CNC guy that I knew (except me, I don't do that) had a pirated version of MasterCam. As a SurfCam dealer in the 90's, I couldn't sell them on SurfCam even though it was better. It's just too difficult to learn something entirely new. SurfCam's marketing is every bit as good as MasterCam's, SurfCam is in many Colleges here in California. Every person who pirated MasterCam eventually will get a job in a shop that has it or buys it and that has added millions of users to their installed base. I have seen this countless times first hand.

I have SurfCam and for what I program (4 and 5 axis) it is far superior to MasterCam, I can show many examples of this. I had MasterCam (Legally) and I quit using it several years ago, I still have the MasterCam dongle plug, if anyone wants it... As a SurfCam user, I got to try SolidWorks PDO for several years for free before I bought it thru their partnership developer program.

So good luck in your CNC endeavours, you got my vote to keep on, keepin on.

To the guy who asked about stealing Porsches to increase their value. The answer is "Yes". If Porsches were stolen in large quantities it would definitely increase their popularity and value. Anything that is in such demand that people are stealing them instantly makes them worth more money. Again, I am however, not into the stealing of anything...

Charlie V In So Cal...

[BurrMan]

Mac,
I like your analogies.

To the guy who asked about stealing Porsches to increase their value. The answer is "Yes". If Porsches were stolen in large quantities it would definitely increase their popularity and value. Anything that is in such demand that people are stealing them instantly makes them worth more money.

These analogies are very bizarre

The "stealing of cars" one... Cars are stolen "because they are popular".. There's a few expensive ones stolen due to value (surfcam), but the stealing of the cars doesnt make them valuable...They are stolen because they are popular.. Makes my point with Mastercam.

The "photo of a building".... Really? How many people can you move into that photo? It's a poor analogy that doesnt equate..

Apparently, because "YOU" can copy a disk and pass it around (I guess as opposed to picking up a building and taking it to your land for the year???) it's not "really stealing"... Perhaps you could just "take a picture" of a computer with Solidworks on it and "frame it" to enjoy at home... I'm sure nobody would mind this...:cheers: