[agmeadows]

This may be a big ask given how little I've found regarding this topic. First, some background. I have a Langmuir MR-1 gantry CNC machine. The spindle is belt driven by an AC servo motor and has an ER20 collet. I am looking to replace it with something that will take tool holders and have a manual drawbar at the very least. Z height is rather low, so ISO20 or ISO25 might be best as not to reduce overall Z capabilites, but open to other ideas.


I can't, for the life of me, find any spindles (other than GlockCNC Taig upgrades who seems to have disappeared) that would fit the machine. Everything I run across is 2.2kW brushless spindles or questionable Chinese products that I don't want to gamble on. Does anyone know of a spindle that might work? Or, if no such thing exists, a shop that can make custom spindles? I have reached out to Fischer Precision, Colonial Tool, and Dynomax but suspect my request might be too small for them to even bother.


Spindles don't seem too terribly complicated. The devil is in the accuracy requirements and grinding. Neither of which I can accomplish my with current tools. Any help would be much appreciated.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
I, some months ago, bought a new spindle, 3.5kW(S1), 3.4Nm(S1), 10krpm(rated),40krpm(max), 400V with an HSK32E tool interface. Has proven to be everything as specified.
It is Chinese, called Dake, but the manufacturer's site is:

https://www.haozhihs.net/show_list.php?id=53

I'm not a huge fan of Chinese made, but I guessed this manufacturer is credible, and since taking delivery everything is exactly to spec, no more, no less.

I bought it of Ebay from a guy in Vietnam:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/18625355060...3ABFBMroeQ7qBl

Paid $2000USD which included shipping to New Zealand and ten HSK32 to ER20 tool holders. Good value buying.

HSK is more rigid (for a given size) and better balanced for highspeed operation. Also has less engagement (16mm with HSK32) in the taper and is therefore more frugal with
vertical height than ISO/BT etc.

These ATC spindles are not really hobbyists stuff, but rather light industrial. My feeling is therefore, that most Chinese made products of this type and class is credible, and certainly
if budget is tight, and when is it not?, then they are the right fit for your machine.

These ATC spindles in the 3kW to 7kW class are as cheap as I've ever seen them. I suspect the severe downturn in the Chinese economy is forcing the prices down to cost or maybe even lower, just
to secure some sales. With the trade war hotting up I'd say 'get in and go mad now........and beat the rush'.

I do not have a genuine automatic tool changer (yet), but just using pneumatic lock/unlock has been a MAJOR advance in my CNCing. I feel sure you'll find the same.
The spindle is rated at 10krpm, resulting in reasonable torque (3.4Nm S1). Certainly no great shakes but I can and do run 6mm and 8mm tools in mild steel (5300rpm and 3980 rpm respectively)
with moderately aggressive tool paths. It will run 10mm, 12mm and 16mm tools in mild steel but with decreasing torque authority which demands a judicious tool path. I even have a Valenite arbor and
1.5" face mill, and will take light cuts (10 thou) in mild steel, which is rather better than I thought it might. Not really practical with steel, but aluminum and plastics the face mill goes great guns.

Craig

[agmeadows]

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Hi,
I, some months ago, bought a new spindle, 3.5kW(S1), 3.4Nm(S1), 10krpm(rated),40krpm(max), 400V with an HSK32E tool interface. Has proven to be everything as specified.
It is Chinese, called Dake, but the manufacturer's site is:

https://www.haozhihs.net/show_list.php?id=53

I'm not a huge fan of Chinese made, but I guessed this manufacturer is credible, and since taking delivery everything is exactly to spec, no more, no less.

I bought it of Ebay from a guy in Vietnam:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/18625355060...3ABFBMroeQ7qBl

This are the ones I have seen. I am looking for a belt driven spindle so I can continue to use the existing AC servo. I like having the low RPM power for things like steel. Most of the spindles, like the one you've listed, have a minimum RPM range of 10k to get max torque. Thank you for the information, but sadly this will not work for me.

[catahoula]

Hi Craig, currently typing from Wanaka, NZ!

agmeadows,

Do a google search for "BT30 ATC spindle belt drive"
Should give you some results like this: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255800677343442.html
Chinese may not be ideal but I think it's going to be a lot more work/money (probably both) to find something non-chinese.
Automation technologies has a kit that includes the servo motor/driver and all the pneumatics, too, but you probably don't need the motor.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi Craig, currently typing from Wanaka, NZ!

agmeadows,

Do a google search for "BT30 ATC spindle belt drive"
Should give you some results like this: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255800677343442.html
Chinese may not be ideal but I think it's going to be a lot more work/money (probably both) to find something non-chinese.
Automation technologies has a kit that includes the servo motor/driver and all the pneumatics, too, but you probably don't need the motor.

[catahoula]

here's one from GPenny which is one of the more well known chinese suppliers: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804945215273.html

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here's one from GPenny which is one of the more well known chinese suppliers: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804945215273.html

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

I like having the low RPM power for things like steel. Most of the spindles, like the one you've listed, have a minimum RPM range of 10k to get max torque.

I run my spindle down to 2000rpm and use it extensively in steel and stainless. My intention when looking for a spindle was that it needed to be able to do 24000rpm (or close to)
because much of my work requires it, and yet have enough torque at low speeds to be useful in steel, and obviously ATC. This particular spindle is rated at 10k, meaning moderate
torque for a 3.5kW device.

There are a number of spindles in the 6kW to 9kW class of 120mm diameter that retain the high(ish) top speed, but have torque in the 6Nm to 10Nm, enough to be useful at low rpm for steel.
This is an example:

https://www.haozhihs.net/show.php?id=612

8.5kW(S1), 8.1Nm(S1), 12.15Nm(S6,40%) and still capable of 30krpm with an HSK 40E tool interface. This is what I would call the 'next step up' from what I have at the moment.

The one I really want is:

https://www.nakanishi-jaeger.com/en/f-line/10408017

18kW(S1),12.5Nm(S1), 24krpm down to less than 1krpm, 80 bar through spindle coolant, HSK63F/HSK50E tool interface. 23K Euro.........have to save up some more!



Craig

[joeavaerage]

Hi catahoula,
Wanaka is a beautiful part of the country. Take a drive up the Matukituki Valley towards Mt Aspiring. Pure mountain overload!

New Zealand's summer has been cool and wet on average, not perhaps the best holiday weather, but the country is as green as I've ever seen it at this time of year, and the
growth of the native trees and grasses is a sight to behold.

Don't know what your plans are but if have the chance go over the Hasst Pass to South Westland. The forests there are incredible, where moss grows in big drifts down to the ground.
You can close your eyes and just imagine some dinosaur trundling past....it just seems so prehistoric. From Hasst go north up the West Coast.

My personal favorite is Okarito, about 10km north of Franz Josef Glacier, well worth seeing in its own right.

I went on holiday once planning to go there, see that, and do all the different things......and yet what happened is I stumbled on to Okarito.....and never managed to leave. Spent my entire three weeks there.
Was a 50-50 call whether I left there at all and go home, I would have happily stayed there the rest of my life!

Craig

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
will confess part of the reason I so liked Okarito was the two English girls (tourists) whom were at that time temporarily in charge of the Backpackers where I was staying.
They were delightful. Another gem was Trev, an old hippy whom lived in a broken down caravan over the road, he was seventy in the shade even then. He'd be up at the crack of noon,
come across the road with his big bag of homegrown and proceed to get everyone stoned. The rest of the day was spent goofing around, sightseeing, fishing, gold panning, preparing food and over eating!

The Backpackers was right next door to the Zalas Creek, a bloody good gold stream that flows into the Okarito river, at a place naturally called 'Okarito Forks'. The Zalas had been much lowered as a result
of the micro hydro scheme (Wahapo, 3.1MW, supplying the entirety of South Westland) meaning that you could get good access to the stream bed in safety due to the low water flow, a rare confluence of events in Westland, the
rivers and streams are to be respected for their power. The Zalas is set aside as a 'Public Access' river where you may freely pan for gold. You are not allowed a sluice.

Not Trev though, he had a portable sluice box and a pond that would fill up for a water supply, it would last about three hours. There was a South African bloke, his girlfriend, the two English girls, Trev and myself.
Once we started seeing some decent gold the South African bloke and I got very enthusiastic. We were soon crowbarring rocks aside and scooping 'pay-dirt' out of crevices and cracks with a teaspoon. By the time
the water ran out for the sluice we washed up and had about 4-5grams of gold. We were all cold and wet and gloriously happy!.

Craig

[catahoula]

Hi,
will confess part of the reason I so liked Okarito was the two English girls (tourists) whom were at that time temporarily in charge of the Backpackers where I was staying.

Thanks for the great stories, Craig. Sounds like a grand old time. The tale definitely has me itching even more to get out of the fancy condo world of Wanaka. Due to a wedding and some social obligations I've only dabbled in real dirtbag traveling on this trip.

Although I have absolutely been enjoying the dramatic mountains and some great mountain bike trails. Got a great view of Mt Aspiring from those trails this morning. Not sure I have time to get up to Okarito, but I think I could borrow a car from the friends I'm staying with and hop over to Haast tomorrow, before three days of torrential rain is forecasted to hit the coast. Tempting.

After this week in wanaka/queenstown, I'll head up to the Nelson/Golden Bay area for 10 days. The last few weeks I've been in Auckland, Rotorua, Lake Taupo, Whangamata, and Christchurch.

Cheers

- - - Updated - - -

Hi,
will confess part of the reason I so liked Okarito was the two English girls (tourists) whom were at that time temporarily in charge of the Backpackers where I was staying.

Thanks for the great stories, Craig. Sounds like a grand old time. The tale definitely has me itching even more to get out of the fancy condo world of Wanaka. Due to a wedding and some social obligations I've only dabbled in real dirtbag traveling on this trip.

Although I have absolutely been enjoying the dramatic mountains and some great mountain bike trails. Got a great view of Mt Aspiring from those trails this morning. Not sure I have time to get up to Okarito, but I think I could borrow a car from the friends I'm staying with and hop over to Haast tomorrow, before three days of torrential rain is forecasted to hit the coast. Tempting.

After this week in wanaka/queenstown, I'll head up to the Nelson/Golden Bay area for 10 days. The last few weeks I've been in Auckland, Rotorua, Lake Taupo, Whangamata, and Christchurch.

Cheers

[agmeadows]

BT30 will take up too much space on the MR-1. ISO25 or ISO20 would be ideal. I have reached out to a Chinese manufacturer for an ISO20 spindle, but their runout spec is .003" which seems excessive for a spindle. I was hoping someone knows something I don't and could point me in the right direction.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
with ISO20 or ISO 25 I would be very concerned that the flexure under load could be more than the runout. Make no mistake small tool holders do flex.

An HSK style tool interface is more rigid, for the same size, and yet requires less Z height.

An ISO20 requires 47.4mm travel (including the pull stud) whereas an HSK32 requires 16mm and HSK40 requires 20mm, and yet both HSK32 and HSK40 are significantly more rigid than ISO20.

Craig

[peteeng]

Hi Cat and Craig - Some common ground here. I lived in Hawea and Wanaka some 35 years ago. Had a house on Hawea lake for $28NZ per week. Now its a multi million dollar address. Worked on Treble cone during winter and cycled around south island in the summer. I cycled to the top of Treble cone in the snow for a job interview, the guy said he couldn't say no after that. Spectacular ride down that day!!! Tramped up the Matukituki for 7 days and found some camps with mushroom heads. Ah excellent days back then... Peter

ISO20 is a good size for a small mill. Find a good one they seem to becoming more available. Sure bigger is stiffer but when space is limited rigidity is limited.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
seems like in powered spindles, ie the motor is built-in ISO 20, ISO 25, HSK25, HSK32 and HSK40 are all well represented, but in unpowered
spindles (belt driven) the two common sizes at ISO30 and ISO40, with no ISO20 or ISO25 models in evidence.

Craig

[catahoula]

Hey Pete- That's one way to get a job, haha

I did borrow a car and cruise out to Haast and the native beech forests. Stopped by Jackson Bay for lunch, one of the old unsuccessful west coast settlements, where there's a fish and chips place in an old boxcar. The proprietor there mentioned 4 helicopters full of American Mormons landing on the beach the day, before just to eat at the restaurant. Fresh seafood holds a particular appeal, i suppose!

I also picked up some hitchhikers, one of whom had just walked the length of New Zealand!

agmeadows- sorry about the thread hijack and sorry we don't have a quick solution.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
about 400 miles East of New Zealand are the Chatham Islands, very remote, and anything imported from New Zealand costs a fortune.

At the Fish'n'Chip shop in Waitangi, also in a boxcar, the fish, all local caught, fresh and HUGE Blue Cod fillets, cost less the the chips, as they have to be flown in from New Zealand.
Kind of back to front, we are accustomed to paying little for chips (fries as the Americans call them) but paying a fortune for the fish, but not on the Chathams!

Craig