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IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Stepper Motors / Drives > Stepper motors not running smooth MACH3 LPT
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  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Stepper motors not running smooth MACH3 LPT

    Hello people.
    I have an issue, mine stepper motors not running smooth, its like PC is not sending pulses to motors continously. Its like there are some delays at random times between pulses.
    Also sound of motors is not continous, noises every cca half a second, and alot of vibrations cause of it.
    I run via MACH3, Windows XP. I ran DriverTest in Mach3 folder and graph looks like this.
    I've done some things already: Formatted and Reinstall windows, change PC mode from ACPI to Standard PC change pulse width from 0 to 5us in Motor Tunning in MACH3... and strange motor running is still present. I have DB25 1205 breakout board and its connected via LPT.

    Do you have any recommendations what to do?
    https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=482812&stc=1
    Thank you, Matic

    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
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    Re: Stepper motors not running smooth MACH3 LPT

    You also could do with telling us:
    What machine you are using it on.
    Which stepper motors.
    Which stepper drivers.
    What voltage/ampage power supply you're using to run the drivers.

  3. #3
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    Re: Stepper motors not running smooth MACH3 LPT

    My custom made CNC.
    Stepper motors: https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/p-...s-24hp39-5004s
    Stepper drivers: https://www.longs-motor.com/stepper-...er-dm860a.html
    Power supply: DC 60V 5.9A, I have 3 PS's, one for each motor driver.

  4. #4
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    Re: Stepper motors not running smooth MACH3 LPT

    You have to experiment with different amp and step setting till you find the sweet spot.

  5. #5
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    Re: Stepper motors not running smooth MACH3 LPT

    Quote Originally Posted by liefer View Post
    You have to experiment with different amp and step setting till you find the sweet spot.
    Thank you, I already tried many different settings at stepping and amperage but motors runing strangely no matter I change the settings.
    I think the problem is at PC due to unstable output frequency through parallel port LPT.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by burnley1 View Post
    Stepper motors: https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/p-...s-24hp39-5004s
    Stepper drivers: https://www.longs-motor.com/stepper-...er-dm860a.html
    Power supply: DC 60V 5.9A, I have 3 PS's, one for each motor driver.
    Well, that certainly isn't a bad setup. I'd expect them to fly. For the 5A motors I normally set driver peak at 4.9A. Then keep an eye on motor heat. If pretty cool set to 5.7A peak and check again.

    I use MM for measurement, and 5mm pitch screws.
    For this bob and the above MM/pitch I'd start with:

    Mach set at 25khz.
    Driver per rev at 1000.
    Steps per at 200.
    My us were set at 3 & 8
    That will give you good max velocity available.

    If it works well then try:
    25khz.
    2000.
    400.
    If available max velocity is too low then put Mach at 35khz.
    Tbf, 35khz/2000/400 settings are about enough for these boards.

    Do you have the wiring diagram you used for the bob & drivers?.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by burnley1 View Post
    Thank you, I already tried many different settings at stepping and amperage but motors runing strangely no matter I change the settings.
    I think the problem is at PC due to unstable output frequency through parallel port LPT.
    Darn if. Your best option now then is either:
    1. Get a cheap new motherboard and replace it. Or a cheap pc. Usually loads on ebay.
    2. Get an ETHERNET controller and hook up your existing bob to it via DB25-IDC26 cable.

    DO NOT waste your time with usb controllers. Nearly every problem I see is when using a USB.
    (well except for whan a pport fails).

  8. #8
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    Re: Stepper motors not running smooth MACH3 LPT

    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    Well, that certainly isn't a bad setup. I'd expect them to fly. For the 5A motors I normally set driver peak at 4.9A. Then keep an eye on motor heat. If pretty cool set to 5.7A peak and check again.

    I use MM for measurement, and 5mm pitch screws.
    For this bob and the above MM/pitch I'd start with:

    Mach set at 25khz.
    Driver per rev at 1000.
    Steps per at 200.
    My us were set at 3 & 8
    That will give you good max velocity available.

    If it works well then try:
    25khz.
    2000.
    400.
    If available max velocity is too low then put Mach at 35khz.
    Tbf, 35khz/2000/400 settings are about enough for these boards.

    Do you have the wiring diagram you used for the bob & drivers?.
    Thank you.
    Motor heat is ridiculous, they are very hot IDK why btw. I have 4mm and 3mm on Z axis pitch screws.
    Good I will try this setup you wrote once I get my motors running smoothly.
    Yes I wrote diagram here you are:
    https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=482818&stc=1
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails CNC_motors_202.jpg  

  9. #9
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    Re: Stepper motors not running smooth MACH3 LPT

    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    Darn if. Your best option now then is either:
    1. Get a cheap new motherboard and replace it. Or a cheap pc. Usually loads on ebay.
    2. Get an ETHERNET controller and hook up your existing bob to it via DB25-IDC26 cable.

    DO NOT waste your time with usb controllers. Nearly every problem I see is when using a USB.
    (well except for whan a pport fails).
    Thank you!
    1. Good, I will try to replace motherboard with processor on it (i have one old pc laying around at home) and reinstall everything, do you suggest WIN XP, SP2 or SP3?
    2. Do you think that I should replace my DB25 1205 BOB with ethernet BOB? I was googling and found this one: Novusun NVEM V2 Ethernet BOB and run it via ethernet connection insead of parallel port?

    My DB25 1205 cheap BOB with LPT:
    https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=482822&stc=1

    Novusun NVEM V2 Ethernet
    https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=482820&stc=1

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by burnley1 View Post
    Thank you.
    Motor heat is ridiculous, they are very hot IDK why btw. I have 4mm and 3mm on Z axis pitch screws.
    Good I will try this setup you wrote once I get my motors running smoothly.
    Yes I wrote diagram here you are:
    https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=482818&stc=1
    Are you using ballscrews or trapezoidal?
    You want ballscrews tbf. Motors will struggle a bit with trapezoid.
    For 4mm screws:
    Divide your driver steps per rev by 4.
    So if put driver at 1600 per rev, put step per unit at 400.
    1000/200
    1600/400
    2000/500
    And so on
    Check your machine for any binding. My setup is more or less the same. I've got set at 4.9A peak and they're cool running.

    For 3mm screw? divide driver steps per by 3.
    But I think this pitch may prove problematic tbf.
    There isn't really a good driver setting for this divisible by 3. Example: 1600 would be 533.333333333 steps per unit, not that accurate.

    A lot of people with problems using the NVEM/NVUM Novassun. They're very hit and miss. 50/50.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    Are you using ballscrews or trapezoidal?
    You want ballscrews tbf. Motors will struggle a bit with trapezoid.
    For 4mm screws:
    Divide your driver steps per rev by 4.
    So if put driver at 1600 per rev, put step per unit at 400.
    1000/200
    1600/400
    2000/500
    And so on
    Check your machine for any binding. My setup is more or less the same. I've got set at 4.9A peak and they're cool running.

    For 3mm screw? divide driver steps per by 3.
    But I think this pitch may prove problematic tbf.
    There isn't really a good driver setting for this divisible by 3. Example: 1600 would be 533.333333333 steps per unit, not that accurate.

    A lot of people with problems using the NVEM/NVUM Novassun. They're very hit and miss. 50/50.

    Ye I know, I am using trapezoidal sorry, but theres not really much of friction, I nicely set the positions of the nuts and leadscrews. Maybe i will replace em in near future with ballscrews. I will check and set to 4.9A.

    Ye 3mm, I noticed that problem too late when I assembled the Z axis together. There I will have some error, not so precise u are right. But lets wait and see what thia this will bring me when i will run few jobs on my cnc (not there yet).

    Good to know for Novusun NVEM, i will check ot out alittle more. What BoB do you suggest? Or which one are you using?
    Can you run MachTester app on your cncs PC and post a screenshot of graph here?

    Thank you. M

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by burnley1 View Post
    Ye I know, I am using trapezoidal sorry, but theres not really much of friction, I nicely set the positions of the nuts and leadscrews. Maybe i will replace em in near future with ballscrews. I will check and set to 4.9A.
    Ye 3mm, I noticed that problem too late when I assembled the Z axis together. There I will have some error, not so precise u are right. But lets wait and see what thia this will bring me when i will run few jobs on my cnc (not there yet).
    Good to know for Novusun NVEM, i will check ot out alittle more. What BoB do you suggest? Or which one are you using?
    Can you run MachTester app on your cncs PC and post a screenshot of graph here?
    Thank you. M
    Not sure I've got a LPT port pc lying around for testing anymore.
    I moved onto ethernet with a UC300eth and UCBB running off a laptop. Works well with both Mach and uccnc.

  13. #13
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    Re: Stepper motors not running smooth MACH3 LPT

    Hi,
    the Novosun you linked to is a genuine motion controller and would be much better than a parallel port, but I would not choose that one. Novosun peddle pirate copies of Mach3
    and get NO support on the Mach forum.

    If you want to buy a motion controller buy a US or European made one, don't buy Chinese rubbish.

    UC300
    57CNC
    Ethernet SmoothStepper
    Hicon

    are all good.

    The second board you linked to is just a parallel port breakout board, it won't help your PC which is suffering from excess jitter.

    Craig

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    Not sure I've got a LPT port pc lying around for testing anymore.
    I moved onto ethernet with a UC300eth and UCBB running off a laptop. Works well with both Mach and uccnc.
    Good thank you!
    I fixed the problem by running my cnc from another PC. LPT on previous pc has some issue. Now with "new" motherboard, motors are running great as f*! No more strange noises, no more vibration and less heat. Ofc graph from DriverTest.exe look way nicer, less spikes and so on. Also motors can run 2x faster, before the rotor stop following the stator.

    So thank you so much! Atm i wont need eth bob for now, maybe in near future.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeavaerage View Post
    Hi,
    the Novosun you linked to is a genuine motion controller and would be much better than a parallel port, but I would not choose that one. Novosun peddle pirate copies of Mach3
    and get NO support on the Mach forum.

    If you want to buy a motion controller buy a US or European made one, don't buy Chinese rubbish.

    UC300
    57CNC
    Ethernet SmoothStepper
    Hicon

    are all good.

    The second board you linked to is just a parallel port breakout board, it won't help your PC which is suffering from excess jitter.

    Craig

    Craig thank you, i will write down those controlers and stick to buy one of them if i will plan in next weeks. Now i got my LPT running great for now so lets give it a chance.

  16. #16
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    Re: Stepper motors not running smooth MACH3 LPT

    Hi,
    eight-nine years ago I bought an Ethernet SmoothStepper to replace my existing parallel port. I'd had a good run with the parallel port and would have sworn that is
    was operating well. When I got an ESS I was able to get my steppers to go 33% faster without losing steps. I would not have thought the the jitter of the parallel port
    was too bad....but it must have been.

    Craig

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeavaerage View Post
    Hi,
    eight-nine years ago I bought an Ethernet SmoothStepper to replace my existing parallel port. I'd had a good run with the parallel port and would have sworn that is
    was operating well. When I got an ESS I was able to get my steppers to go 33% faster without losing steps. I would not have thought the the jitter of the parallel port
    was too bad....but it must have been.

    Craig

    Good to hear that.
    Then Ethernet controller is the way to go. First I will finish several thinga that i need to do if I want my cnc to start running. And then comeback at controller and update it.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    Are you using ballscrews or trapezoidal?
    You want ballscrews tbf. Motors will struggle a bit with trapezoid.
    For 4mm screws:
    Divide your driver steps per rev by 4.
    So if put driver at 1600 per rev, put step per unit at 400.
    1000/200
    1600/400
    2000/500
    And so on
    Check your machine for any binding. My setup is more or less the same. I've got set at 4.9A peak and they're cool running.

    For 3mm screw? divide driver steps per by 3.
    But I think this pitch may prove problematic tbf.
    There isn't really a good driver setting for this divisible by 3. Example: 1600 would be 533.333333333 steps per unit, not that accurate.

    A lot of people with problems using the NVEM/NVUM Novassun. They're very hit and miss. 50/50.
    What microstep settings do you suggest on my DM860 drivers to be? 400,800,1600,...? And why ??

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by burnley1 View Post
    Good thank you!
    I fixed the problem by running my cnc from another PC. LPT on previous pc has some issue. Now with "new" motherboard, motors are running great as f*! No more strange noises, no more vibration and less heat. Ofc graph from DriverTest.exe look way nicer, less spikes and so on. Also motors can run 2x faster, before the rotor stop following the stator.
    So thank you so much! Atm i wont need eth bob for now, maybe in near future.
    Good to hear you got it working.
    Using LPT port PC gets the job done, if it's working well there's no rush to upgrade it yet.
    WinXP32 sp3 is the only OS I'd use for pport running, it's not bloated like 7 is. Not many people still have XP available.

    I used LPT for a few years and thought it was great.
    Then I got a 'proper' external controller and it was an eye opener. The smoothness is so much better.

  20. #20
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    Re: Stepper motors not running smooth MACH3 LPT

    Hi,
    it very tempting to believe that increasing the number of microsteps also increases the resolution, but the practical reality is that it does not. The effective best
    resolution for a two phase stepper occurs at half-stepping, ie 400 pulses per revolution.

    The real reason we use microstepping is smoothness of motion. The idea was first invented by astronomers who wanted much smoother motion from the steppers they use on their
    telescopes. The higher the microstepping the smoother the motion, however the higher the microstepping requires ever faster signalling to the driver to cause the stepper to spin at
    maximum speed, and you may find the parallel port is just too slow.

    For instance lets assume you want the stepper to spin at 600rpm (10 revs/sec) to make the machine go as fast as you want:

    4 microsteps per fullstep =800 pulses /rev and at 10 revs/sec requires a pulse rate of 8000 pulses/sec.
    32 microsteps per fullstep=6400 pulse/rev and at 10 revs/sec requires a pulse rate of 64000 pulse/sec

    So you can see that a parallel port would have almost no chance of driving the stepper to full speed at 32 micro step per full step but have no trouble
    driving it to full speed at 4 microsteps per full step.

    For this reason most people use 4, 5, 8 or 10 microsteps pert full step, corresponding to 800, 1000, 1600, 2000 pulses per rev. It s good balance to get smooth motion
    without requiring blindly fast pulses from your controller.

    craig

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