[Devastator]

I notice a lot of questions on how to fit the sensor into the 1617 EVS, so I figured I'd share how I did it while I got my router apart to fit it for a new power cord.

I took some pictures but I forgot to document the removal of the switch and where to move the wires but that is pretty straightforward. Just rearranging of the quick disconnects direct to the brush terminals.

To fit the sensor I took the top off and used adhesive sign vinyl to cover half of the shaft just below the armature. Then I drilled the top at an angle to intersect the taped off section and then tapped it to 3/8"-16. I used a piece of delrin rod and drilled it for the sensor, then threaded it to 3/8"-16.

I pulled the wire through until the sensor was just exposed, then several layers of varying sizes of shrink tubing to secure. Then it is just threaded into the hole estimating the right spot to drill the outer cover for the wire to exit.

The photos should be clear enough to show what's involved. The upper hole in the router cover is to attach a ground wire to the spindle via banana plug for the zero function.

This integrated mod might not be for the faint of heart. If you drill in the wrong spot or the wrong angle it won't work. Just thought I'd share how I did it. And yes, it works.

[mmcp42]

Got my SuperPID wired up and testing
couple of questions...

1.
there seems to be space for three characters at the end of the first line
I know that K means Knob mode
what does the R mean at the end?
and what's the - in the middle for?

2.
when I fire it up and set Run (pot fully anti-clockwise
the router seems to accelerate, then jump to 5000 RPM
is that expected behaviour?

3.
as I turn the pot the router goes faster
at full clockwise, the motor is fast but the display says 0 RPM ?!?

cheers
Mike

[ger21]

Did you test the sensor bu manually rotating the spindle and checking the display?

[mmcp42]

Did you test the sensor bu manually rotating the spindle and checking the display?

Indeed yes,10% to 80% as the spindle rotates
Pot showed gradual increase as it turned
Cheers

Mike

[craigjh]

Hi Mike,

You say the display shows "a gradual increase" as you rotate the router. There may possibly be your problem. I'm pretty sure there should be a fairly rapid "spike" or "jump" in the display the pick-up senses black then white.

Someone here will correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what mine does.

"At full speed the motor rpm says 0" - suggests there is something wrong with the pick-up too.

My only solution offered is to double check how you've set that up in your router......

Good luck mate.

[mmcp42]

Hi Mike,

You say the display shows "a gradual increase" as you rotate the router. There may possibly be your problem. I'm pretty sure there should be a fairly rapid "spike" or "jump" in the display the pick-up senses black then white.

Someone here will correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what mine does.

"At full speed the motor rpm says 0" - suggests there is something wrong with the pick-up too.

My only solution offered is to double check how you've set that up in your router......

Good luck mate.

gradual increase is as I turn the pot (it changes to pot display)
the sensor is <10% or >80% so it's nice and sharp

I wonder if it's the location of the sensor
I found a really neat little gap just above one of the brushes
would sparking from the commutator upset the sensor?

cheers
Mike

[mmcp42]

ok quick update
I relocated the sensor to the top of the router well away from sparks!
painted the top bearing (rotating part only) matt black and after that had dried, painted half matt white (using Snopake)
now when I rotate the spindle, lovely crisp high and low (much as before really)

symptom:
select any speed (pot position)
command RUN by shorting RUN to ground

- display changes from "Spindle View" to "Start Motor..."
- motor starts
- display changes to " xxxxx RPM --R"

at that point the motor speed increases rapidly to the commanded speed

subsequently turning the pot changes the speed as expected

so the problem seems to be "sudden increase in speed when mode changes from starting to running"

cheers
Mike

[mmcp42]

I posted this to VAL at SuperPID
he replied:

"Yes this is expected. It is the soft-start feature which increases the
motor from zero up to the correct speed"

so I guess it's all working

[EL34]

I love my Super PID
Thanks for a great product

I was a little reluctant at first to spend that much but now I am so glad I did.

I set up a web page with some info about my Super PID set up here

EL4's CNC projects Main page

[mmcp42]

I noticed you have a Pot/PMW switch
2 part question
do you leave the pot in Mach3 mode?
do you switch it to manual mode?

cheers
Mike

[Al_The_Man]

I see the PDF manual still shows the power to the motor is still only dependent on the PID unit for switching, I don't like the idea of absence of safety when changing a cutting tool, the method I used back in post #246 is still the safest IMO.
Al.

[EL34]

I noticed you have a Pot/PMW switch
2 part question
do you leave the pot in Mach3 mode?
do you switch it to manual mode?
cheers
Mike

Hi Mike
The pot is only active when the switch is switched to the POT setting
You can turn the pot and set the motor speed manually when set to POT

If the switch is set to PWM, then Mach3 sets the motor speed via G-Code instructions.

I leave it set to PWM and have Mach3 control the spindle speed

It's way nicer to have your G-Code setting the spindle speeds
And you can make speed changes during the G-Code program if needed

I hardly ever use the manual speed control, I let Mach3 control the speeds
(Speeds are set up via my CAM/G-Code program)

[mmcp42]

Hi Mike
The pot is only active when the switch is switched to the POT setting
You can turn the pot and set the motor speed manually when set to POT

If the switch is set to PWM, then Mach3 sets the motor speed via G-Code instructions.

I leave it set to PWM and have Mach3 control the spindle speed

It's way nicer to have your G-Code setting the spindle speeds
And you can make speed changes during the G-Code program if needed

I hardly ever use the manual speed control, I let Mach3 control the speeds
(Speeds are set up via my CAM/G-Code program)

ah almost what I wanted to know
what I'm getting at is
I know you can have the pot in Knob mode or Mach3 mode
(changes the pot profile)

do you change from one mode to the other when enabling the pot?

hope that makes sense?

cheers
Mike

[EL34]

You use the switch to change modes, not the pot

The pot does not do anything when the switch is set to PWM

The pot is only active when the switch is set to POT, which is actually manual control of the motor speed

Hope that is what you were asking

[mmcp42]

true enough
but...

SuperPid supports two types of pot profile
linear (Mach3) and knob (sort of logarithmic)

if you only want to use the pot, you might choose knob mode when you order
if you are planning to use Mach3 or similar, you might choose linear

since it's a linear pot, the software must be doing the conversion
does it not do the same conversion when using PWM (converted to a voltage)?

after all the real "input" is the POT pin
it doesn't know whether a pot is connected, a PMW converted voltage, or a real voltage is being applied

Now you could just leave it all in linear (Mach3) mode and accept that the pot is linear
just that there is a knob mode that might work more as intended

It only means using a DPDT instead of a SPDT to achieve

cheers
Mike

[cnczane]

I successfully removed the speed control module from my used BoschColt PR20EVS this evening, and lived to tell the tale.

[If you need it, ask me if I still have it, and if so, email me some postage.][...oh, and a beer.]

With help from an earlier post by Al the Man, and EL34's thread here
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/genera...d_control.html
I formed a Mad Plan.

It was so easy as to be anticlimactic. No wires were cut(!).

Two wires come into the router from the wall: THICK black (to 1/0 switch), THICK white (to a coil). These are left alone.

Three wires come out of the module: THIN blue (to 1/0 switch), THICK yellow (in crimp-on wirenut with THIN black wire from a coil), and THIN white-turning-to-black (to a push-on connector on one of the brass brush holders).

1. unplug the last wire mentioned (THIN white-to-black) from brush holder
2. unscrew the screw on the 1/0 switch clamping the THIN blue wire
3. (hardest) "un-crimp" the THICK yellow's crimp-on wirenut, by "crimping" 90 degrees from the original crimp (use anything to "nip" away at the plastic, if you want, to get a better bite). I was about to give up and cut the wires, which I was afraid would then be too short, when it just gave way, and the two wires it had pinched together just fell out of it. Alternately un-crimp with pliers and tug on the connector to see if it has loosened.
4. insert the THIN black wire (to a coil) just released in the position vacated by the THIN blue wire in the 1/0 switch and tighten the screw

That does it.

Grab the router VERY tightly, hand not touching any metal. When you plug it in to test, there will NOT be any "soft" start, but it will "jump" to full speed. You can hold it fine if you're expecting it. Be prepared to unplug it if you just find out you've been color-blind all these years or that you've always had trouble understanding instructions.

DON'T DO THIS IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. Roman and Val recommend leaving it installed, and just "neutering the TRIAC" by shorting all three of its legs together with wire and solder.

[EL34]

Glad you got it working

Roman and Val recommend leaving it installed, and just "neutering the TRIAC" by shorting all three of its legs together with wire and solder.

The stock wiring is iffy at best with all the crimp connects and the wimpy switch screw terminals
I wanted to make the connections solid and simple on mine

[Devastator]

I'd like to separate the LCD and mount it remotely from the PID. I haven't seen this addressed despite numerous searches. I'm assuming that I'd have to make a custom cable with the right headers. Anybody out there that has done this or have an opinion on viability of doing this? TIA

[mmcp42]

I seem to recall that someone did mount the LCD remote from the unit
you just need to make/obtain a suitable cable
the LCD unscrews easily and is socketed

if you do go that way - do post pictures

cheers
Mike

[kinghong1970]

it'll be great if someone with more knowledge on this can chime in and give us the specs on the pins so we can find them on newark or the similar internet vendors...

i did find a makeshift solution from radioshack... but not 100% happy as the fitting is a bit loose...