[One of Many]

Plagiarist

Is it Spiro's ghost that will come and haunt you for using this phrase without acknowledgment.

I checked; he is credited with it but it was coined by his speech writer William Safire.

I like the phrase, as it seems to fit well with the "do or die urgency", GW supporters. No intention on plagerising Mr. Agnew's writers pointed epithet. My Bad.....forgive my lack of associating it with the rightful owner....

But then, I guess like Spiro, I too have things to pe proud of and not so proud of. Although. I've never been bribed with $100k, so in that respect, I am still innocent although a known "borrower of words"!

DC

[dynosor]

Call me naive but last time Scientist from 113 countries got in one room in 2007, 97% of them agreed that Global warming is a fact and it has worsen due to human interaction. Could 97% of them be wrong, of course but if you go to the doctor and 97 of them tell you, You have cancer and 3 of them tell you, your good as gold hehehe.

Not a valid comparison old chap: The scientist at this gathering were invited BECAUSE of their views on global warming. They were pre-selected and do not represent all people qualified to interpret the data.

If you visit a bunch of doctors you don't want them to KNOW and AGREE on what is wrong with you before they have taken a look.

Speaking of interpreting the data; you don't need PhD to read a thermometer. Modeling what might happen if the temperature went up does not serve as proof that the temperature will go up.

Instead of developing expensive “alternative energy” to limit CO2 because “all the ice is melting”, why not invest in viable methods to replace lost snowpack with desalinated sea water for human consumption? Do you really think that humans can reverse the trend of ice melting that has gone on for 10,000 years?

I hate the cold, and I live in San Diego. Now go and tell the Ruskies living in Siberia to limit their heating fuel consumption to prevent the planet from overheating….

[dufas]

<~~ Makes mental note: Never argue about politics....Call me naive but last time Scientist from 113 countries got in one room in 2007, 97&#37; of them agreed that Global warming is a fact and it has worsen due to human interaction. Could 97% of them be wrong, of course but if you go to the doctor and 97 of them tell you, You have cancer and 3 of them tell you, your good as gold hehehe. I'm sorry but I'm putting my money with the 97 and getting some treatment. There are no easy answers to this problem. Right now a lot of the new technology for alternative fuels are less than ideal but sooner or later they will get to the efficiency need it to be cost productive. Lest not forget all the technological advances we've had in the past 50 years. To move forward we need to look where we have been and hopefully try to leave things in the same shape or a bit better than when we got it.

Purpose of Petition

The purpose of the Petition Project is to demonstrate that the claim of “settled science” and an overwhelming “consensus” in favor of the hypothesis of human-caused global warming and consequent climatological damage is wrong. No such consensus or settled science exists. As indicated by the petition text and signatory list, a very large number of American scientists reject this hypothesis.

Publicists at the United Nations, Mr. Al Gore, and their supporters frequently claim that only a few “skeptics” remain – skeptics who are still unconvinced about the existence of a catastrophic human-caused global warming emergency.

It is evident that 31,072 Americans with university degrees in science – including 9,021 PhDs, are not "a few." Moreover, from the clear and strong petition statement that they have signed, it is evident that these 31,072 American scientists are not “skeptics.”

These scientists are instead convinced that the human-caused global warming hypothesis is without scientific validity and that government action on the basis of this hypothesis would unnecessarily and counterproductively damage both human prosperity and the natural environment of the Earth

http://www.petitionproject.org/

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=59319

http://www.tulsabeacon.com/?p=462

I would add that the same pro-global warming like consensus was prevalent during the 60s when scientists were shouting global drought and wanted to get billions of $$$ to tow icebergs from the north and south pole to provide potable water to the continents and again in the 70s where the scientific consensus was proof that earth would freeze into a giant ball of ice unless we put satellites in orbit to reflect and concentrate the sun's rays onto the earth in order to warm the planet up...

Using consensus as an argument can work both ways. If ten men were to have a consensus of 7 to rob a bank and 3 were against the action, deniers, so to speak, consensus demands that the bank be robbed...the right or wrong or correct has nothing to do with it if consensus were the deciding factor.

Just as a side note, my brother died at 47 years old because the consensus of the majority of a doctor's group were completely wrong... All except one agreed that he had diabetes when the real problem was that he had a tumor growing in his abdomen and was pressing against his pancreas and mimicking diabetes. If they had listened to one of the doctors that wanted to do further tests, my brother would have most likely still be alive today...

[Geof]

.... Although. I've never been bribed with $100k,...
DC

Now you are compounding your transgressions it was never proven in court that he had accepted a bribe. He agreed to a no contest plea regarding failure to declare $29,000 of income.

I to have a small soft spot for Spiro; mostly, I think, because he punctured pomposity; anyone who does that cannot be all bad (he doesn't even have to like dogs).

[martinw]

This has nothing to do with the recent US elections, but maybe you would like to read a UK journalist's "take" on AGW, and his views as regards the Climate Change Industry.

He is equally scathing about the politicians in the UK, BTW.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m.../30/do3010.xml

Best wishes,

Martin

[dynosor]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m.../30/do3010.xml

"economic suicide for US" Do you think those on the bandwagon are too stupid to see the result, or is this all part of a cunning plan?

[martinw]

"economic suicide for US" Do you think those on the bandwagon are too stupid to see the result, or is this all part of a cunning plan?

Dear dynosor,

Well, I would say that "snouts in the trough" would not be too far off the mark.

Best wishes,

Martin

[handlewanker]

I don't know what yo'all have to worry about, the new face at the window only has four years or so to make things good or bad, either way nothing's going to change unless it comes from the minds of the people, and having a huddled mass background makes the task seem a bit hopeless.

It has been said that you gotta have faith in the system, so change the system.

Most of your problems are because you keep changing the man, but the system still remains the same.

Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.
Ian.

[One of Many]

Now you are compounding your transgressions it was never proven in court that he had accepted a bribe. He agreed to a no contest plea regarding failure to declare $29,000 of income.

I to have a small soft spot for Spiro; mostly, I think, because he punctured pomposity; anyone who does that cannot be all bad (he doesn't even have to like dogs).

And you are revealing your age!

True, Agnew had his likeable side, and not to take anything away from your soft spot, but I don't see where he punctured pomposity. Between him an Nixon, they sure didn't help the image of Republican corruption and elites being above the law. Seems to me, they were all got caught knee deep in it within that era? At least the historical record paints it that way. Regardless, I have read some of their recanted history and appreciated how they both had good intentions handled regretfully. The media still has a field day trashing them and ignores anything positive as usual.

From Wikipedia;

"Students of Professor John F. Banzhaf III from the George Washington University Law School, collectively known as Banzhaf's Bandits, found four residents of the state of Maryland willing to put their names on a case and sought to have Agnew repay the state $268,482 - the amount he was known to have taken in bribes. After two appeals by Agnew, he finally resigned himself to the matter and a check for $268,482 was turned over to Maryland state Treasurer William James in early 1983."

His plea carried the same penalty as guilty and so he was disbarred, although not charged with a felony.

I might add, I had faith in Clinton, but he and his wife dirtied their legacy with too many questionable acts of elitist arrogance and personal indulgences. I tried to have faith in Bush, and we know where that went. Now in a matter of shaping technicalities we get the Clinton's third term, but should still hold faith? A campaign of Hope is not a certainty......as they say, wish in one hand....... As with most politcians, we already know what they will fill our other hand with! LOL!

DC

[Geof]

And you are revealing your age!...
DC

Sometimes I think it is a lost cause trying to hide it; after all I am now officially a pensioner.

[One of Many]

Sometimes I think it is a lost cause trying to hide it; after all I am now officially a pensioner.

There remains a silver lining somewhere in that. Congrat's on your retirement.

Would that make you 100% or merely 20% retired?

Hmmmm....I sense that your driving passion won't keep you all that idle.

DC

[Paulo E.]

One of Many, sorry to burst your bubble of joy be the Christian analogy does not fly, last time I checked Christians were under the believe that the world was FLAT LOL, by the way whilst now you seem not trust scientist you sure as heck love using the technology created by it which I find ironic. Poetic justice I supposed. True Science is created by research, compiling data and creating theories which must be proved. Again I very much doubt you or anyone in this room would go to a doctor and 9 of them tell you there's something wrong and you listen to the one that says your O.k, if you do bless your heart LOL. You might be wise beyond your years. Facts are that while we love to speculate and come up with our own perception of climate change, This people do this for a living, do forgive me if I take their words over yours.

<~~~ Makes another mental not: Do not speak about religion.

:argue::cheers:

[One of Many]

One of Many, sorry to burst your bubble of joy be the Christian analogy does not fly, last time I checked Christians were under the believe that the world was FLAT LOL, by the way whilst now you seem not trust scientist you sure as heck love using the technology created by it which I find ironic. Poetic justice I supposed. True Science is created by research, compiling data and creating theories which must be proved. Again I very much doubt you or anyone in this room would go to a doctor and 9 of them tell you there's something wrong and you listen to the one that says your O.k, if you do bless your heart LOL. You might be wise beyond your years. Facts are that while we love to speculate and come up with our own perception of climate change, This people do this for a living, do forgive me if I take their words over yours.

<~~~ Makes another mental not: Do not speak about religion.

:argue::cheers:

It is too late. Categorically, AWG is a religion when you give more weight to one sided "evidence" rather than the umpteenth unexplainable wonder of the world.

You miss the point Paulo. The hand selected climatologists that were invited to "debate global warming" as a like minded collection based on their views and speculation. You as a believer have faith in the minor portion of that conclusion where man is involved and therefore must be the one controlling factor to resolve something yet to be proven.

You ought to check more often, The last narrow sect of Christian Catholic left the flat earth theory for the most part back in the 40's. What still remains has nothing to do with main stream Christian religion.

The new flat earth society AKA "AGW supporters" espouse to put man as the central culprit. Their chosen facts and prophecy are gospel, which limit themselves a wider view, rely on media driven fear mongering and ignore the remainder of scientific debate coming out in scrutiny of a singular interpretation hardly based on the overall facts. The STAT's poll reflect this very well.

If the debate is over, the same analogy exists.... it resembles a religion with the same modes of piety. In support of an unprovable theory is by the same faith as theology. Take what supports your claim and leave the rest behind. I've heard this reference as a cafeteria Christianity, so now we have cafeteria Suedo Scientists? The parallels are relevant, but by your verbage on organized religion you prove my point, the one finger solute here again from the "open minded".

Don't get me wrong, I am after the same truth. I just don't see much on either side of the issue with knee jerk reactionaries or abject ignorance to superficial environmental conditions.

DC

[dufas]

One of Many, sorry to burst your bubble of joy be the Christian analogy does not fly, last time I checked Christians were under the believe that the world was FLAT LOL, by the way whilst now you seem not trust scientist you sure as heck love using the technology created by it which I find ironic. Poetic justice I supposed. True Science is created by research, compiling data and creating theories which must be proved. Again I very much doubt you or anyone in this room would go to a doctor and 9 of them tell you there's something wrong and you listen to the one that says your O.k, if you do bless your heart LOL. You might be wise beyond your years. Facts are that while we love to speculate and come up with our own perception of climate change, This people do this for a living, do forgive me if I take their words over yours.

<~~~ Makes another mental not: Do not speak about religion.

:argue::cheers:

Lets see now...Don't argue politics, don't argue religion, believe all the mass media says about global warming, kiss Al Gores behind, in fact, don't question anything at all...... So what you are really saying is that all people should just fall in line and accept anything that any elitist or elitist wanna' be expounds with blind trust....Don't check the facts or the evidence, don't ask questions, keep mouth shut, go away.......just like is being done to the thousands of skeptical, anti-human caused global warming scientists that also do their thing for a living.. Well, Comrade, keep going and you'll get your way.... your type usually do..

[Paulo E.]

ROFL... I guess both Dufas and Open Minded are Scientist. Cheers to you both and a special one finger hello for you Open Minded. So much for an open mind.B By the looks of Things Both of you must have Doctorates on every subject and as such are the foremost experts. Who knew we had such scholars amongst us. I find it hilarious when stating facts is called fear mongering. btw I'm not talking about the Earth being flat but I guess the joke flew right by you. Most of all say we follow all the so call fear mongers, Whats the worst thats gonna happen ? That we learn to use our resources better, try to improve living standards and perhaps correct some of the destruction to the environment that has been caused due to the industrial revolution ? Geez if they are wrong I can live with things being a little bit better and if they are right well thanks goodness things were prevented on time. Again what if I'm wrong, all I'm doing is conducting my life in a more efficient manner which by any standards is not bad anyways. Ask yourself the same question if at the end of the day you come out to the same conclusion well hell then thats the right answer for you.

<~~~ Makes yet another mental note: Avoid at all cost talking about religion and politics and the environment and Birds too(chair):cheers:

ALL IN GOOD FUN :bat:

[dufas]

ROFL... I guess both Dufas and Open Minded are Scientist. Cheers to you both and a special one finger hello for you Open Minded. So much for an open mind.B By the looks of Things Both of you must have Doctorates on every subject and as such are the foremost experts. Who knew we had such scholars amongst us. I find it hilarious when stating facts is called fear mongering. btw I'm not talking about the Earth being flat but I guess the joke flew right by you. Most of all say we follow all the so call fear mongers,

First of all, it does not take a PHD to recognize glaring inaccuracies such as stating only a handful of scientists disagree with man made global warming when just in the states alone there are over 31,000 scientists that disagree with man made global warming. In Europe, there are many more.

Facetious remarks about we being accredited scholars is rather hypocritical coming from one that follows a pseudo-scientist such as Al Gore and drinks the koolaide of PC edicts from the IPCC whose reports has already been proved an exaggeration and keep changing to fit the UN's goals. I would put it forth that you believed the scientific facts[?] that were expounded in the 60s and 70s stating that the world was going to end in 10 years if something wasn't done immediately, of which, statements such as that becomes fear mongering in of itself.....very similar to the doom and gloom that is espoused today by the scientists and the mass media. I guess telling masses of people that they are going to die if something isn't done right a way is not fear mongering. Just sort of a soft peddled hint of things to come, is it ??

Whats the worst thats gonna happen ? That we learn to use our resources better, try to improve living standards and perhaps correct some of the destruction to the environment that has been caused due to the industrial revolution ? Geez if they are wrong I can live with things being a little bit better and if they are right well thanks goodness things were prevented on time. Again what if I'm wrong, all I'm doing is conducting my life in a more efficient manner which by any standards is not bad anyways. Ask yourself the same question if at the end of the day you come out to the same conclusion well hell then thats the right answer for you.

What's the worse that can happen ??? Like all things, it depends on one's point of view and as you stated, unless one comes to the same conclusion as you, it is not the correct conclusion. This is an open mind ??? Think not... Ooops, sorry, I had a thought that wasn't yours.

I do not know of anyone down here among the unwashed that is against a clean environment. I do find it odd that the very people that do not want the government to tell them how to live and are so much for freedom will hand the government all the tools that is needed for the government to control just about every facet of the people's lives.

I don't know what your idea of improved living standards is but not being able to do anything lest it maybe, might, could be, possibly maybe negatively effect the environment in some esoteric way is not many people's idea of improved living standards. Then the economics of the global warmists are more likely to bring most countries down to the point that East Afghanistan will look like a shining example of prosperity. This country can't handle a mortgage and banking fiasco much less could it handle the destruction of it's production base.

<~~~ Makes yet another mental note: Avoid at all cost talking about religion and politics and the environment and Birds too(chair):cheers:

ALL IN GOOD FUN :bat:

Again, it would depend on what bird you are talking about.......and don't forget Obama's ears or middle name, silence, silence, silence....

Is it really fun to control other people's thoughts, lives, hopes, dreams, etc, etc... ?? I guess everyone needs a hobby..

[Paulo E.]

Talk about fear mongering. Dufas stop being bitter and angry, take a laxative if it helps you lighten up. Last time I checked I just voice my opinion and got dumped under the Tree Hugger, shallow minded psudo Gore junkie follower and superficial reader category :nono: Thankfully this is a free country and I have as much right to express my point of view as you do. I do try to read both sides of the argument and make up my mind accordingly. By no means this is a one sided argument even amongst those who do believe part of global warming is partially caused by human interaction, there's wide number of opinions as to the numbers. At least I'm willing to talk about it with out cataloging you as a KoolAid drinking We've been swell for the last 8 years. LMAO. Anyways do tell me how KoolAid taste cuz I've never had any. :cheers: Cheers Brother.


<~~~ Makes another mental note: Do not argue with Dufas, he seems to be the sensitive type. :stickpoke

[dufas]

Talk about fear mongering. Dufas stop being bitter and angry, take a laxative if it helps you lighten up. Last time I checked I just voice my opinion and got dumped under the Tree Hugger, shallow minded psudo Gore junkie follower and superficial reader category :nono: Thankfully this is a free country and I have as much right to express my point of view as you do. I do try to read both sides of the argument and make up my mind accordingly. By no means this is a one sided argument even amongst those who do believe part of global warming is partially caused by human interaction, there's wide number of opinions as to the numbers. At least I'm willing to talk about it with out cataloging you as a KoolAid drinking We've been swell for the last 8 years. LMAO. Anyways do tell me how KoolAid taste cuz I've never had any. :cheers: Cheers Brother.


<~~~ Makes another mental note: Do not argue with Dufas, he seems to be the sensitive type. :stickpoke

I am sensitive to people that make blanket, dead end, one way or no way else but their way statements and then begin insulting thinking people because they don't fall into lock-step with you....

Seems that you operate on a one way street, it your way or the highway. This free country your bragging about only allows your opinion when in fact, it was not opinion but an attack on the other posters here and included factitious remarks about their intelligence and education. There are quite a few learned people posting here that come forth with very compelling facts and arguments and back them up with resources.

As far as you willing to talk about anything that has been brought up, you seem to be the most closed minded of the bunch. I do not believe that you read both sides of any argument and talk about it as proven by your first couple of posts.

If you don't want to be accused of being a Al Gore junkie, don't make your first post a catalog of Politically Correct, Al Gore, tree hugging declarations and anything someone else says is full of crap...

Handlewanker, a most proficient poster here, has a more open , though cantankerous mind, than you display. Go back and read his posts and see where you stand...

[dufas]

It is too late. Categorically, AWG is a religion when you give more weight to one sided "evidence" rather than the umpteenth unexplainable wonder of the world.
DC

I do agree with you, somewhat. wouldn't AWG be more like a cult where AL Gore is standing in front of his followers who each hand on his every word while the allowed scientific community backs up his every statement??

[One of Many]

ROFL... I guess both Dufas and Open Minded are Scientist. Cheers to you both and a special one finger hello for you Open Minded. So much for an open mind.B By the looks of Things Both of you must have Doctorates on every subject and as such are the foremost experts. Who knew we had such scholars amongst us. I find it hilarious when stating facts is called fear mongering. btw I'm not talking about the Earth being flat but I guess the joke flew right by you. Most of all say we follow all the so call fear mongers, Whats the worst thats gonna happen ? That we learn to use our resources better, try to improve living standards and perhaps correct some of the destruction to the environment that has been caused due to the industrial revolution ? Geez if they are wrong I can live with things being a little bit better and if they are right well thanks goodness things were prevented on time. Again what if I'm wrong, all I'm doing is conducting my life in a more efficient manner which by any standards is not bad anyways. Ask yourself the same question if at the end of the day you come out to the same conclusion well hell then thats the right answer for you.

<~~~ Makes yet another mental note: Avoid at all cost talking about religion and politics and the environment and Birds too(chair):cheers:

ALL IN GOOD FUN :bat:

Wow, I must have hit a nerve. So defensive……Pthhh! LOL!

Thanks for all the undeserved credentials and the special one finger hello. (Whispering, shhhh) It matches your maturity and juvenile reasoning skills.

By your predicated responses you might stick to the claim of "emotionally biased". If you had any other credentials, we'd have heard about it by now in a more refined tone.

I can claim only Pragmatist and a news junky.

Everyone can agree to using resources better. Anyone can also agree to realistic protections of the environment and making gains on that technology. Where it loses me so far, has proven many a tax payer funded economical impractical dismal failures other than geothermal. The efficiency factors need much improvement to be practical and in my reading, much of that is darn near impossible economically, let alone by physics. While cleaner in one sense and much more toxic in another if twice as much is burned to do the same amount of work. So, in effect, they propose to play with the value of cheap efficient energy, to make inefficient energy appear cheaper, but wiser if you just have faith since it isn't fossil fuel. They haven't totally given up on trying to make fossil fuels cleaner?

What you do for you, is none of my business and more power to you for not being a hypocrite. Lest we put your lifestyle under a microscope like the discredited Mr. Gore. If I had his carbon foot print, I'd be embarrased too!

The basics of the Kyoto protocol do not allow for increase in the standard of living for developed nations, which will force stagflation and nobody gains. It specifically limits all emissions back to 1990 levels, economic expansion must go too. It also forces a retraction of resources economically available such as required energy from raw material to finished product processing. Lots of jobs go with that, including yours and mine. It is disingenuous to think we can have it both ways in our lifetime without a major decrease in our standard of living to third world like economies. But, stay tune, that may be on its way sooner than we would like.

DC