[j m]

Hello, so your what this guy talking about “ultimate list?” well as some one who only owns a multimeter and just tinkers in electronics. Things like oscilloscopes are a bit out of my knowledge and having looked in to buying one which could only measure (View sine waves up to 60 kHz View square waves up to 100 kHz) but thanks to (One of Many) in a another thread I have found that although this would be useful it is really only a basic spec? as he suggested that 100Mhz would be good instead of the 100Khz I was looking at.
So when I say ultimate list I would like to keep it at a reasonable price as in not just automatically the top of the range, but with the features that are important to have.
So, so far on the list is:
multimeter
Logic probe
Oscilloscope
Function generator
So could you [some one with more knowledge than me] give a basic description of what it does and what features are important and why and recommendations of models I would be very grateful.
Thanks jm

[pminmo]

Scope 100mhz dual trace is a good recommendation. Ebay has Tektronix scopes going all the time, look at the 465B. I paid up to $10,000 many years ago for some of the Tek scopes that are now going for $150. Tektronix makes great scopes. You need two traces to compare one signal vs a second in correct time relationship. This is especially true when working on digital circuits. Now if you truely want the ultimate, get a digital 4 channel Tektronix. Digital scopes will capture one time events, and allow you to evaluate what happened. Logic probe, yes, great troubleshooting aid. But if your dabbling in electronics, build your own. A real good 4 1/2 digit dmm is another excellent investment. Accuracy in resistance and voltage measurements can be a real lifesaver sometimes.

[JavaDog]

How about a good digital-adjustable Solder Station with a nice assortment of tips. Don't want to forget the basic kit! May not be very expensive, compared to other test-equipment, but I have found that a good solder station makes soldering so much nicer...

[abasir]

Adjustable power supply with current limit. I would get one with three outputs (maybe upto 50V @ 2A each).

[Mariss Freimanis]

A scope functions as your 'eyes' in electronics. I can't imagine being with out one. Being without a scope would be like being a blind portrait painter; the results would be interesting at best.

Stay away from all PC based scopes and cheap LCD "scopes" no matter how great the specs are and how low the price is. Sucker trap; they are nasty things. A good LCD scope (as in useable) costs over $5,000 new. I have a Tektronix TDS-3014B scope which is OK for most things and is a very nice LCD display digital storage scope. If I have some serious scope work to do, I use an analog CRT scope like a Tek 2247A or for best writing speed an ancient but superior Tek 465B.

Get a Tektronix 465B as pminmo said. It is the best analog scope Tektronix ever made in my opinion and they are going for a song. Get at least one X10 scope probe. Tektronix is best, it may cost as much as a scope but it will save you a lot of aggrivation in the long run. Learn to use a scope as easily as you use a multimeter.

Forget the logic probes. You have scope. Logic probes are for wimps. Real men use analog CRT scopes and X10 probes.

Multimeter. Get a Fluke or a Tektronix one. Figure on spending $300+ for a new one. Get the kind with everything on it; capacitance measurement, temperature probe, freq counter, etc. Stay away from off-brands. This is an instrument.

Function generator. Any good tri-wave (sine, triangle, square) will do. 2 to 3 MHz max is fine; should set you back less than $300. Don't waste money on the LED-readout kind. B&K Precision and the like are OK. No fancy features are necessary for this. The freq knob potentiometer will wear out after a time even with the best.

Add a lab supply to your list. A single output type will do. Pick the kind with a voltage and current display. Protech makes good bargin lab supplies. We use their 0 to 60VDC, 0 to 1.5A (3006B) supplies all over the place. About $200 and invaluable. Good heavy duty production lab supplies are Sorensen and Xantrex but these are expensive (>$2,000), big and heavy. They are used in test stands for our drives. I use the el-cheapo Protek ones when I'm in a hurry to try something.

Main thing is to become as one with your scope. Know without thinking what a "normal trigger, neg slope, 2V/cm, 50 uS/cm, noise reject trigger filter, DC-coupled, 20-MHz bandwidth limit" means as easily as you know what "I'll have fries and a Coke with that Double-Cheeseburger" means. It is your eyes. Practice, practice, practice.

A nice soldering station helps. Anything by Weller or Hakko is good. I'm partial to Hakko. Try the Hakko 936. I like the fact the Hakko soldering tips aren't sucked hollow of copper by solder should the iron-plating get breached with a scratch. Bad feature with other irons.

That's kind of like it. That's all you need.

Mariss

[smarbaga]

- if i had on one piece of equipment, i would have to say it would be a scope
just 2 months ago i posted that some tek 2246 4 channel digital storage scopes would be comming up on e_bay, and they did... these were $4000 us new.(some sold for $100)
i got a new , (never used) one from a different source for $55. it was missing 6 plastic knobs. ( which i bought for $1 each.)
- my second choice would be a multimeter (fluke 77 or 80 series) autoranging .
i have used these for years.
i had a brand new one, i used it on amps for its first time, i forgot to switch the leads back and measured voltage with it.
i blew a 25 amp 600v fuse at the mail pannel and shut down the whole line,
took a small chuck out of the lead tip , but the meter still worked fine ( wheeeew)
in a pinch one can use the sound port for a signal generator as well as the printer port for a data generator / logger
- just a 27 to 35 watt soldering iron usually will suffice , soldering improves with practice. and solder means a lot too 60/40 multi core, depending on the job.
- for big stuff , luggs and car stuff etc you will need a 100 watt, a 35 watt will not deliver enough heat to work on 12 gauge wire., or a propaine torch with a tip

[j m]

Thanks every one for the advice,

Being without a scope would be like being a blind portrait painter; the results would be interesting at best.

that’s what I have bean feeling like, knowing there is a problem but not being able to pin point it.

I had been thinking of getting a pc based scope, I would have been that “sucker“. I am going to keep my eyes out on e-bay, I have seen a Tektronix 465b go for less than the pc based scope I was looking at, but I didn’t know what I was looking at then! Having looked at the price of a new scope I thought the ones I was looking at couldn’t be any good because there was such a big price difference.
I have seen a 465b military spec, I know there wont be much of a difference between that and a normal one but would like to know what it is. Are there any good web sites with a list of models and features. Also any tutorials on how to use them bearing in mind I will be learning this on my own.

Thanks again for the help, and if any body has any more ideas please post
James

Updated list:
adjustable Solder Station
Adjustable power supply
multimeter
Logic probe
Oscilloscope
Function generator

[smarbaga]

there are thousands of 465 scopes out there, but they have been out for around 40 years. do you really want to sink your money into a 40 year old thing.
what if the switches or pots break or wear out , the caps are drying out as we speak.
i guess it is a chance one takes, i don't think i would spend much over $75 us. if i needed one, and it would have to be working and look good.
byw , you can buy a new old tube for the 465 for $300.

[Mariss Freimanis]

The weakest part of the 465 are the vertical channel 1 and 2 attenuators. Make sure it shows a signal on all the settings from 5mV to 5V without being noisy.

Mariss

[pminmo]

Smarba,
The 465B isn't 40 years old, but their not young either. You can't find a working one for $75. One in good shape with probes will set you back $200. A "working one" $130ish. A checked out one $225+. Parts, there are a ton of that series, frequently available on ebay for less than $50 for parts. The 465 series is one of the last scopes that can be maintained by an individual not connected into the industrail repair business. Thats one of the reasons they are still popular.

[smarbaga]

yes the 465 is probably the longest lasting ( by the number of units in service ) out there, it was probably ahead of its time, at the time, like the simpson 260 volt meter.
there are a lot of scopes that are just as good and better than techtronics.
hp, siemans, philips , b&k, wavetech, racal danna, sencor just to name a few.

[pminmo]

I've bought, used, approved millions of dollars of electronic test equipment procurement over my career. I've bought and used scopes from Tektronix, HP, Philips, Leader, Autek, Hitachi, B & K, and Lecroy. Only Lecroy was on par with Tektonix and in some apps actually better, HP and Philips were ok almost on par, Hitachi , Leader, B & K not even close, but they worked. While I can't comment on their scopes, Racal-Dana wasn't on par in dvm's or counters that I have experienced, and their insides were cheap by comparison.

[CJL5585]

Are you going to design and test out equipment?

Perform circuit board repairs?

Tinker with electronics?

If you are serious. Follow the guidelines by Mariss. He has a good list of equipment for design/development/troubleshooting and repair.

One needs the best equipment on the market for serious work. Purchase the best equipment that you can afford, and upgrade as finances permit.

You will need a temperature controlled soldering gun preferable Weller.
Textronix equipment (all you can afford).
An assortment of QUALITY electronic hand tools.

DISCLAIMER:
One will sow more than he reaps in the electronics service business after he figures the price of education, the many hours of pouring over schematics and technical notes, working without schematics, and attempting to repair equipment with bad designs.

SOLUTION:
Get a minimum of a 4 year degree in Electrical Engineering and also a dual degree which includes a BS in Electronic Technology. With this you will be able to dogpaddle in a slow moving current.

Experience is the best teacher.

Jerry

[fyffe555]

Could anyone tell me what the difference is between a Tektronix 465 and 465B? And is a 465 worth getting? I've the opportunity to get a 465 calibrated this year for around $150.

Thanks..

[CJL5585]

Could anyone tell me what the difference is between a Tektronix 465 and 465B? And is a 465 worth getting? I've the opportunity to get a 465 calibrated this year for around $150.

Thanks..

It has been a long time since I used a 465B, but if I remember correctly, it has to do with external trigger adjustment and compensation.

465 is one of the best on the market at any age. If the calibration is recent and it is calibrated to NIST standards, and still meets those standards, it is probably worth $150.00.

I am sure you can find one cheaper, but not one calibrated to NIST standards.

Jerry

[fyffe555]

Jerry,

thanks, it's calibration date is 5/7/05 apparently - not sure if it's to NIST but it's from a large manufacturing corp locally and so I think it will be good enough for my amateur efforts, if it looks ok. No manuals or probes unfortunately so I'd have to source both - I'll get to see it on Monday and maybe negotiate the price down a bit.

Andrew

[smarbaga]

thats not a large investment considering what it does, as long as it doesn't fall off your work bench too many times it will probably last for many years.
make sure the trace is clean, not blurry and can focus down to a fine thin line.
if it is blurry this will mean that the auto transformer ( if i remember correctly)
is starting to go.
manuals can probably be downloaded for free , and probs , maybe on e_bay
or you can make your own, for now.
good luck

[CJL5585]

Jerry,

thanks, it's calibration date is 5/7/05 apparently - not sure if it's to NIST but it's from a large manufacturing corp locally and so I think it will be good enough for my amateur efforts, if it looks ok. No manuals or probes unfortunately so I'd have to source both - I'll get to see it on Monday and maybe negotiate the price down a bit.

Andrew

GET SOME TEKTRONIX PROBES with it if you can. The last ones I purchased for my scope (about 15 years ago) cost me $120.00 each. That was the X10 factory probes. They might be more reasonable now, and for just regular electronics work where extreme accuracy is not needed, some of the cheap $35.00 probes will work just fine.

Jerry