[jabuffi]

Michael-

That was most definitly a helpful link! I especially appreciate the side by side comparison of the 210, 310, and 325. You mentioned a 425 above... How many models (other than the three covered in your manual) did they build?

Again, I appreciate the reply! Hope you stay on here, especially since you've been through a diy retro on one of these. I must say that the 4th axis has a lot of appeal. Did any of the tree stock controls support this feature, or is it always an aftermarket?

[Michael M]

The Dynapath Delta20 listed a fourth axis as an option. Of course, that was not a free option!

I'm not all that familiar with the Tree line. I watched eBay for a bit and saw the Millenium machines as well as the ones in the brochure. I think the 425 is largely similar to the 325 but with a 5hp/7hp for 15 minute motor instead of the 3hp/5hp for 15 minute item on the 325.

There were also VMCs but I don't have any information on them. 3S is probably going to be the best place to go for detailed information.

The 325/425 seem hard to beat for a reasonably sized and beefy knee mill. Sure, it would be nice to have more Z axis movement, but all the bed mills that I saw were too tall for my garage. There are a number of owners of the 325/425 over at Practical Machinist, and I can't recall anyone doing any significant complaining about their machines.

If you get one with the high speed Yaskawa spindle motor and matching spindle drive with encoder feedback I'd recommend that you not mess with that. I made the mistake of selling my drive off to a guy who was trying to make money with his Tree that had his drive fail, thinking that a generic VFD would work OK, but that has not been the case. The high speed (8000K) motor seems to have the current draw of a larger motor, and a 5hp VFD doesn't have enough steam for this nominally 3 hp motor. I'll be trying a 7.5 hp VFD to see how that goes, but I'm resigned to the possibility of having to go with a "real" spindle drive with encoder feedback (like the OEM part) to get things to work right. That isn't going to be inexpensive, but I've got enough invested in the machine and control conversion to make ponying up the bucks to get it to run right look like a worthwhile expenditure.

cheers,
Michael

[307startup]

Just my two cents worth..but that Journeyman 325 looks a lot like a Bridgeport Interact...my school has one that has less than 100 hours on it and just sits...my teacher wants to get rid of it, but has to put it up for auction to do so and doesn't want to bother unless he can make sure it goes to a good home...if anyone has any info on the Interact I sure would appreciate it as I wouldn't mind owning it.

[jabuffi]

Michael-

You mentioned how your tree fits nicely in the garage, a fact that makes me misty eyed since I think that's where I'll set mine. Did you have to run a phase converter, or did your area have 3 phase available to residential?

[Michael M]

I use a DPC-10 from Phase Perfect. The spindle drive is the only thing that needs three phase on the mill, but my lathe also has a 3 phase motor (but no drive for it as all the speed changing is done through gears).

The Phase Perfect is expensive, but it is very easy to deal with as it just sits there providing nice clean and stable three phase power without any concern about what is happening downstream from it.

We did manage to get the Tree jammed in the garage door for a moment, but taking it off the skates gave enough room to pinch it through.

cheers,
Michael

[jabuffi]

Can the DPC-10 just plug into a single phase 220 outlet, or is a more complex hookup required?

And when you say "expensive", you mean how many digits with what number on front?

[Michael M]

No, it has its own 60A 220 single phase feed out of a subpanel. The DPC-10 is the 10hp (and smallest capacity) of the Phase Perfects.

http://www.phaseperfect.com/products.htm

I think the small one is in the $2500-2800 range.

cheers,
Michael

[crayner]

Hi All,
I'm looking at a 425 retrofit myself - Michael thanks for the input on the Centroid controller; I'd also like to leave my options open for an 8K/10K spindle migration path in the future (may as well get all I can out of the piece). I plan on supplimenting my Haas VF2SS with this machine, using it to perform backside operations and blank prep in a production environment. Once I'm into it I'll be happy to post pix.

Initially the machine came with a parts-bin Delta-Tau retrofit. I've heard good things about them, other than the price, but am told that their control systems are best suited for large industrial apps. Anyway the system was flaky from day 1 and a lightning hit did it in.

[Adobe Machine]

I had a real hard lightning strike take out our server, 3 desk tops and our only CNC at the time .The Hurco 2 axis " may have" suffered damage also. The insurance company was not happy, but paid for a retrofit and the rest of the damage, plus 3 weeks ( documented ) business interruption money. My premiumns did not suffer, but at renewal time there was a change in the policy on " events" that my attorney said disincluded " Acts of God"..We shopped around, paid a little more , but the policy did not eliminate lightning caused damage.Might look at your insurance when the accident happened.

Good luck on your retrofit, and keep us informed, maybe some pictures ?
Thats an excellent machine to retrofit, real good iron.

Adobe (old as dirt )

[alha]

Jabuffi: as far as I know, all models used iso G code. Again, after 1979, all used servos, their encoders being on the ballscrew, usually not the servos themselves.Some of the later models had 4th axis capability but those were VMCs
I'm sure there are other fixes, but I had a lot of fun tearing out all of the old stuff in both cabnets, and starting over. At least I can fix it if it dumps.I did adapt all new servos and planatary reducers as I needed torgue and accuracy.
The Iron is good ( except some of the later imported models) but I do not think any of the controls are supported anymore.. have a couple of friends that have mid eighties mills and have had few problems.
If I were buying a used , untested Tree Mill figure a retrofit in the purchase.

Richard Zastrow: I will go through some of the Tree catalogues in the next days or so..hmm may have one on either a 320 or 325, will look and get back.


Adobe (old as dirt)

These questions are real hard to answer not knowing the Tree model, and the condition of the present electronics.You may be able to use your present servos, you may be able to use the encoders, you may be able to use some of the relays, but If the controls are toast, then you will need a controller ( breakout board) servo amps,) a PC and software matched to the controller,wiring and the ability to read/interpert electrical diagrams , test and diagnostic ability.The other questions is how is your spindle controlled ? Programable VFD ? DC servo type motor ?
I would say that if you need new ball screws and bearings, then if you got the machine as a "gift"( I.E. free) sell what you can on E bay as parts and look for a better machine.Ball screws, ABEC 7 matched bearings etc = $2800.00 plus, Needing new ball screws means the machine was abused, or overused or the oiling system is inoperative or plugged. That would mean the ways, gibbs and other sliding surfaces are most likly in need of re-scraping or are just junk.The spindle is another issue that can get real pricey .I do not say that you would not have the skill and knowledge to repair, regrind a spindle, but that is a Science and Art, just second to brain surgery. Check the posts by Walt @ SGS,and I know HuFlungDung also rebuilt one of his machines spindles, but he is a highly skilled machinest/mechanic. Walt does it as a living,and have heard nothing but good about his skill and product.
For a retro-fit your cost can be anywhere between $3000.00 to $12,000.00
depending on how you want to configure, bells and whistles, software etc..and believe me there is a learning curve that takes time and concentration.
Best advice is be carefull of your purchase, read all the threads on mill retrofits you can, then look at some of the new offerings for three axis mills, there are a lot of nice CNC mills ,new, done with good controls for $12,000 to $21000.00, have a warrenty and service.

Adobe (old as dirt)

Hello there, new to this forum, I have been reading up on Tree since I came across a couple of Tree VMC mills locally. Both are apparently in need of some sort of service: "1996 Tree VMC-500 vertical CNC, 20x20x20, PC-2100 control. Needs work on Z thrust bearings" and "1995 Tree VMC-1050 vertical CNC 40x20x25, Dynapath control, 24 tool holder, CAT 40, includes chip conveyor. Needs work on high low shift. Includes SMW indexer."

I haven't seen either one of them in person yet, just pics(they don't look pristine, definitely been used in a production environment), and so far have just emailed him asking about the use they have had, if a tech has looked at them and given an estimate for repair, as well as any other known issues. Also asked how tight they are. We'll see what response I get. From reading some threads here, Tree is no more, and there is a place in WI to get some parts, but didn't see anything listed for the VMC, mostly just the knee mills.

Which brings me to my questions, which may have been partially answered in the 2nd quote from Adobe:

In the 1st quote you mentioned ..." The Iron is good (except some of the later imported models)" could you please elaborate on that, what would be considered a later model, and is it across the board, the VCM's, or the knee mills?

The other main question, which he did cover pretty well, was making sure the basic iron is in good shape, because replacing parts can add up pretty quickly I see, not to mention that they are probably going to be getting harder and harder to find. The good thing is that it won't see anywhere near the use it did in a production environment, so if things are reasonably tight, then it should last me my lifetime, as they are quality built machines.

From the 2 descriptions I quoted, do you think I should be wary of these machines? They are a pretty good price, compared to others of the same model and year I've seen for sale on the web, but usually there is a reason for that. If they do need some work, what is the best way to find a qualified company to do it? I am not afraid of doing a retro on the electronics (I'm somewhat of a geek), but when it comes to reworking parts that have a tolerance of .0001 or better, that worries me a little, as I don't have the experience in that field to know it will be done correctly, and if it isn't, then all the money spent could be wasted.

Any advice you can give me before I drive over to take a look at them, what I should be looking for/asking about, and what answers I should be hearing that tell me it probably doesn't need a complete overhaul. One reason I am looking at these as opposed to the new ones mentioned at $12-22,000 is that I can afford this one now, and put some money into it as I go, but can't afford to drop 15-20 g's on a new one. Of course, if they are in that bad of shape where they may me cost more than 12-22k to get up to spec, I certainly wouldn't be interested in taking that route. If on the other hand I can get away with $3-5,000 to bring it up to snuff, (plus whatever a Centroid would cost me-eventually) that would be acceptable, I can afford that down the road a little. Thanks for any input that might help me make a wise decision, you guys really seem to know your stuff.

[Adobe Machine]

Hummm Tuff question.. call 3 S at 414-570-9530..Both Dan and Zorian worked for Tree untill they closed..That indicates they had experiance with and including the last few VMC they manufactured.

The have connections, and are streight shooters.. They will be able to give you people in your area that are competant in Tree VMC repair..

I would be intrested in the one you do not buy.I can give it a nice , warm home.

Adobe (old as dirt )

[alha]

Well, talked to S3, they don't do those models, but refered me to someone who did. They appearently still work on them, and have parts if I need them.

I'm going to look at both of them, I spoke with the local rep who serviced them today, had a nice educational convo with him. He was pretty up on the 1050, but the 500, not so much so. It needed a couple things done to it, and he was pretty unimpressed with the design, especially with the changer. I plan on heading up there one morning this week, I am meeting with a person who usually runs it, to go thru it's paces.

I may purchase both of them, go thru them and sell the one I don't keep. I will need to find a place to put them that has 3 phase power, though. Lots of big decisions to make in a pretty short period of time.

[Adobe Machine]

Cool, nice you found someone that knows those VMC's..Keep us all informed and post some pictures ! Would still be intrested in the other machine.

Adobe (old as dirt)

[alha]

Well, I thought I had posted a nice long reply early this morning, but it seems to somehow not have posted... I will re-do it later, kind of busy now, but gist of it is that I am taking the 1050, passing on the 500 because of all the issues it has. Dang, it was a good post, too...

[alha]

Well, I thought I had posted a nice long reply early this morning, but it seems to somehow not have posted... I will re-do it later, kind of busy now, but gist of it is that I am taking the 1050, passing on the 500 because of all the issues it has. Dang, it was a good post, too...

[alha]

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