[amishx64]

Hello all,

After reading many posts that incorrectly informed others that they couldn't / shouldn't use laptops to control CNC machines because of "power saving features" and so forth, I decided to start a thread in an attempt to correct this misconception.

First of all, a laptop is a computer, just in a smaller package. Nearly everything is the same as a desktop, just in a smaller, portable package, accompanied by a nice little UPS (the battery).

The "power saving features" that plague users when trying to use CNC software are all directly controlled via the OS (Windows, Linux, and Mac (yuck)), so they can be actually be easily disabled.

Consider the following a tutorial. Note: Pics come from MS.


We are going to configure Power Management in Windows XP. This may require Admin privileges, which shouldn't be a problem for most.

Go to Control Panel


Click Performance and Maintenance


Power Options


Change your power scheme from Portable/Laptop to Always On. Everything should be NEVER, especially for CNC purposes. (Unless you are SURE you want to change something. Not recommended.)


Click the Advanced tab.
Change:
When I close the lid on my portable computer option to Do nothing.
When I press the power button on my computer option to Ask me what to do or Do nothing. Do nothing is recommended.
When I press the sleep button on my computer option to Ask me what to do or Do nothing. Do nothing is recommended.



You may also disable hibernation on the Hibernate tab.

I think that's it.
Suggestions are welcome. Please feel free to ask if you have questions.

Hope this helps.

- amishx64

[CarbonKevin]

I've been using a different method - I wonder if they accomplish the same result?

Start>Settings>Control Panel>System>Hardware Tab>Device Manager

Go to the bottom of the list, click the little plus sign next to "Universal Serial Bus Controllers"

Right click on the first "USB Root Hub" you see. Select Properties. Go to the Power Management Tab.

Make sure the "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power" box is UNCHECKED

Do this for all the USB Root Hubs listed.

[amishx64]

That will help if you are using a USB connected driver, but not if the controller is connected via parallel. That just prevents the PC from turning things off like modems, LAN, USB, etc after the computer has been out of use for a certain amount of time.

It is a good idea though. I'd definitely recommend it with use of a USB driver board.

If you are using a laptop (or even a desktop) with a CNC machine, I'd recommend that you configure you power options as above as well.

[TOTALLYRC]

Hello all,

After reading many posts that incorrectly informed others that they couldn't / shouldn't use laptops to control CNC machines because of "power saving features" and so forth, I decided to start a thread in an attempt to correct this misconception.

First of all, a laptop is a computer, just in a smaller package. Nearly everything is the same as a desktop, just in a smaller, portable package, accompanied by a nice little UPS (the battery).

The "power saving features" that plague users when trying to use CNC software are all directly controlled via the OS (Windows, Linux, and Mac (yuck)), so they can be actually be easily disabled.

- amishx64

Unfortunately all of this is not entirely true.
Some of the power saving features are controlled by the bios and can't be disabled since there is no option for it. Of course some laptops are much more CNC friendly than others.

Some machines will check the state of the battery every minute and this can disrupt the pulse stream.

Having said all of this when the writer of the software (Mach3) gives up supporting CNC through the p-port on a laptop because of all the headaches and problems I go along with his recommendation and use a desktop.


My $.02.

Mike

[amishx64]

Thanks Mike. While I wish I could see some of these issues in action, sadly I can't. Maybe some one could do some experimenting, such as changing the IRQ of the devices, or somehow disabling the offending devices (battery check service?).

This guide is meant primarily for those whom know their laptops work with mach3 (like Marttin and Jay C) and need to make sure the OS power options don't mess with mach3. It is also meant to be applied to desktops for the same reasons, such as accidental power button pushes.

Jay C is using both a Dell P3-700 and and a Gateway P4-1.6GHz and reports no problems.

I think it would be a great idea to come up with a list of confirmed working laptops with a PP and mach3.

I bet that a PCMCIA (or whatever they are) Parallel Port card for laptops would most likely solve this issue. It may also be a cheap solution. I just looked and saw one for $16.

It's hard to imagine that the laptop polling the battery could mess with the parallel port unless they have conflicting IRQ addresses. Maybe a battery mod is in order?

If anyone with a laptop and a PP port that can't get Mach3 running and would like to work with me, I am willing to explore options / troubleshoot to see if there is one common cause for all problems.

---
On a side note:

There are people telling me about the various voltages they get on their PP on their laptops versus their desktops. I am going to try to investigate this to see if users can't use a multimeter (which I doubt), the laptops vs. desktops truly have different voltages (which I also doubt), or if the voltages change due to resistor load connected to the pins (which I bet is the culprit).
I may be able to develop a small powered breakout board that connects to the PP to solve any of these voltage issues. I bet PMinMO could help clear up some confusion here. I'll have to PM him.

- amishx64

[amishx64]

Sorry for the double post.

I just did some quick searching and found this. If you are having issues, or are doubtful, please read. It was written by PMinMO so I am 99% confident is is correct. He knows his stuff.

http://pminmo.com/PMinMOwiki/index.php5?title=Laptops

There are soooo many incorrect facts regarding laptops and cnc. Most of them are a continual reiteration of wrong information. I've been able to run MACH3 on a Dell C610 laptop after implementing the below information. This isn't a step by step how too, for example if you don't know how to change from ACPI to Standard PC, put the tems into your favorite web search information to get more information.

Also I found this on the zone, entitled: "MACH3 Laptop Success Stories" also started by PMinMO. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53254

I hope to continue [trying to] clearing up issues and maybe help put some of those laptops to work for you!

- amishx64

[TOTALLYRC]

Hi Amish,
While I am sure that there is bad information out there and there are several workarounds for the actual know laptop problems I prefer to stay away from the laptop even thou I wanted to use one in the past.
Desktops and LCD screens are so cheap these days that fussing with a laptop is not for me.
All that being said I think it would be a great idea to have a solid list of laptops that just work, ones that work with some help and ones that are confirmed not to work.

Mike

[amishx64]

Mike,

I agree with you. I'm sure most people would like to stay away from laptops, but some are not as fortunate, as they may not be able to have access to a dedicated desktop. There is also the issue of space, which makes laptops a great choice. Other than that, there is not a whole lot of reason to use one in a shop or garage setting.

I, for instance am currently configuring an older, modded desktop to drive my machine.

I'll probably set up a freely accessible online Wiki or spreadsheet service that users can list their laptops on and the state of working with Mach3.

Also, I will be updating the tutorial to incluce the 'unstalling' of ACPI and changing it to the Standard PC setting found on desktops. This is apparantley also a big cause of problems.

- amishx64

[LeeWay]

I have been successfully using an IBM R40 Thinkpad.
I have tried at least two other types and they just would NOT work.

The power saving functions in the IBM were actually located in 3 different places. You show one which is in Windows itself. There are some toggles in the Bios and then there are some IBM functions that must be turned off as well.
I ran my first laptop for a couple years with no issues. Then the fan quit. I was able to buy a full replacement laptop on Ebay for $150.00. I actually bought two. I will buy another fan and that will give me 3 laptops. Basically drop in replacements for each other. I am very satisfied with the IBM's.

What I like too is when I do get a power surge and the controller stops, the computer does not. IOW, it keeps it's position. It's happened a couple times and I was glad to see that. Desktop without a UPS would have no chance at that.

Laptops are NOT all created equal though. I have read many threads where guys could not get a smooth pulse stream from them. My own efforts on other were the same. Some will work and some won't. I think a better list might be known compatible laptop types and then the steps to get them working right. We can start with a Thinkpad R40.

[jdrew1]

I've had no luck with laptops so far. Tried a Satellite A75 (P4 3.06) and a Tecra 9100 (P4 1.7) and neither gives me a smooth pulse. I can hear the steppers stuttering. No problem on my desktops though.

[amishx64]

I've had no luck with laptops so far. Tried a Satellite A75 (P4 3.06) and a Tecra 9100 (P4 1.7) and neither gives me a smooth pulse. I can hear the steppers stuttering. No problem on my desktops though.

Are you interested in putting in time to get it to work? Or are you just going to use a desktop?

[LeeWay]

A Toshiba Satelite was one that I could not get to work. Two different models.

[ger21]

Also, I will be updating the tutorial to incluce the 'unstalling' of ACPI and changing it to the Standard PC setting found on desktops. This is apparantley also a big cause of problems.

On my old Dell desktop, I needed to disable ACPI in the bios before installing Windows to get Mach3 to run correctly. ACPI is the default in Desktops as well as Laptops.

[Kipper]

I have been successfully using an IBM R40 Thinkpad.
I have tried at least two other types and they just would NOT work.

The power saving functions in the IBM were actually located in 3 different places. You show one which is in Windows itself. There are some toggles in the Bios and then there are some IBM functions that must be turned off as well.
I ran my first laptop for a couple years with no issues. Then the fan quit. I was able to buy a full replacement laptop on Ebay for $150.00. I actually bought two. I will buy another fan and that will give me 3 laptops. Basically drop in replacements for each other. I am very satisfied with the IBM's.

What I like too is when I do get a power surge and the controller stops, the computer does not. IOW, it keeps it's position. It's happened a couple times and I was glad to see that. Desktop without a UPS would have no chance at that.

Laptops are NOT all created equal though. I have read many threads where guys could not get a smooth pulse stream from them. My own efforts on other were the same. Some will work and some won't. I think a better list might be known compatible laptop types and then the steps to get them working right. We can start with a Thinkpad R40.

Exactly why they aren't recommended.....Too hit'n'miss for application in every case.

[amishx64]

Exactly why they aren't recommended.....Too hit'n'miss for application in every case.

Sure they aren't recommended. Everyone can pretty much infer that.
The point is that if someone NEEDS to get a laptop working with their machine, they should at least be able to get the best shot at it possible at getting it to work. They might need a laptop because of space issues, monetary issues, or anything else you can think of. That's what this guide is for.

P.S. There are many more things / steps I am going to add to the guide as I have mentioned earlier.

[ger21]

Exactly why they aren't recommended

The actual terms are "Not Supported". You may get it to work, but if not, you're on your own.

[jdrew1]

Amishx64, I don't really intend to put much effort into the laptops. I found an extra wide desktop tower in the dumpster a couple weeks ago so I'll use that. I think I can fit the PC, drivers and power supply in there no problem. If there is a fix developed, I'd be happy to test it, I have several different laptop models kicking around, mainly Toshiba.

Drew

[amishx64]

ger21, Yep that pretty much sums it up.

Amishx64, I don't really intend to put much effort into the laptops. I found an extra wide desktop tower in the dumpster a couple weeks ago so I'll use that. I think I can fit the PC, drivers and power supply in there no problem. If there is a fix developed, I'd be happy to test it, I have several different laptop models kicking around, mainly Toshiba.

Drew

Yea if you have a desktop, and want to use it please do. If you are willing to try out your laptops from stock, I'd love to hear (for putting them in the list I am going to start). If they don't, I fear it will take some time for the process I would have you put your laptop through.

Thanks,
amishx64

[Dorsal]

I own a Dell Latitude D800 laptop and use it to run my CNC Phlatprinter, but it WILL NOT run my controller card via the parallel port. I tried all the modifications listed above, but the control was hit-or-miss, mostly miss.
Then I ran the file called "DriverTest.exe" that is already in the root directory of Mach3, and it showed the incredibly nasty, interrupted, noisy signal coming out of the parallel port.
That's when I got smart, bought a SmoothStepper, plugged into the USB port on the laptop and stopped wasting my time trying to get the stupid pp to work.

[jdrew1]

Well, you can put my 2 on the bad list so far. (satellite A75 and Tecra 9100) I also tried the drivertest program on both and saw the nasty, noisy signal. The steppers sometimes move smoothly, but are very jerky at times, especially when starting a move. I wouldn't trust that not to lose a bunch of steps. I'll try out my other models at some point too, I have 2 older model Toshibas that might be a little slow for Mach 3, but maybe could be ok for TurboCNC or Mach 2.