[Fadal Error]

You have one seriously messed up set of bellevilles. Those half moon retainers should be a PIA to get out, and you should have had to use a spring compressor, you will need one to put them back.

It is very strange. I have been doing some semi-heavy hogging of aluminum, but I didn't have any trouble. Then I was cutting with some very small end mills. I turned the mill off with no tool in the spindle and left it overnight. The next morning I couldn't get a tool in.

I am a little afraid that there is a washer jammed in there and that everything will pop out like a deadly jack-in-the-box when it breaks free.

IF the balls won't come out, you're screwed. The floater is damaged and you will end up on your back grinding it out, which I can tell you absolutely sucks.

That's what I'm afraid of.

EDIT: on the bright side, with new springs and floater you will have fantastic tool retention and will be able to take cuts you didn't think your machine was capable of.

I am looking forward to that.

The drawbar looks OK.

[Fadal Error]

The washers look fine. All 29 of them.


So how many are supposed to be in there?

[Fadal Error]

The floater came out fine. The angled step looks pretty hammered. You can barely make it out in the picture. Should I replace it? It fell out so quickly that I don't remember which way is up. Is the counterbore/angled end supposed to go up?

[little bubba]

Nice, I've seen worse, had 26 out of 44 shattered in one machine I bought.

# of bellevilles depends. probably 44, the set comes with enough.

47 bellevilles for a 7.5 or 15k spindle, with a pocket depth of 4.627,
44 bellevilles 7.5 or 15k spindle with a pocket depth of 4.326

10k spindle, 44 bellevilles with a pocket depth of 4.627 (most likely)
or 40 bellevilles with a pocket depth of 4.326. (really really old spindles)

YES replace the floater. The way it works is that the 6 ball bearings that you lost that go in the end of the drawbar, they ride on that taper, any indentations on that taper, and you will lose tool retention force. REPLACE IT.
biggest ID facing down when you reinstall. Its $20, cheap insurance.

Edit: in the pic you have, the side facing up, goes down.

[Fadal Error]

I went back and counted the washers in the drawing and I only see 42.

[Fadal Error]

Nice, I've seen worse, had 26 out of 44 shattered in one machine I bought.

How is that even possible. I had 1/2" of slop in the drawbar. I don't understand how that could happen literally overnight.

YES replace the floater. The way it works is that the 6 ball bearings that you lost that go in the end of the drawbar, they ride on that taper, any indentations on that taper, and you will lose tool retention force. REPLACE IT.
biggest ID facing down when you reinstall. Its $20, cheap insurance.

Edit: in the pic you have, the side facing up, goes down.

Will do. Thank you.

[little bubba]

How is that even possible. I had 1/2" of slop in the drawbar. I don't understand how that could happen literally overnight.

I could wiggle the tool in the taper. I've never seen the drawbar loose like you had. I can guarantee that those springs didn't shatter overnight. Did you perchance turn on the spindle with no tool? With no tool the drawbar can touch the end of the piston and hold the drawbar steady while the springs and everything else are spinning, that could have shifted something around and caused some problems.

I think you had one of those 1 in a million deals.

You're going to love this thing when you get it back together. It should cut like a new machine.

[scadvice]

This is a great thread!!! Thanks again little bubba and I'm sorry Fadal Error, you are the one we have to learn on!(group)
Steve

[Fadal Error]

This is a great thread!!! Thanks again little bubba and I'm sorry Fadal Error, you are the one we have to learn on!(group)
Steve

I am making a point of documenting everything carefully in hope that it will help somebody else down the line.

I ordered the washers and floater from cncpros. I also sprung for the spring compressor tool for $26 so I can spend my time making money instead of more lost time trying to make a tool from vague instructions here and there.

http://www.cncpros.net/products.cfm/DRAWBAR-8/Start-21
The HDW-0195 Belleville spring kit is the factory kit.
HDW-0195A is the aftermarket kit which I was told is what 99% of their customers choose.
They are functionally the same.

Check this thread for help on replacing the Belleville washers.
http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread...hlight=DRAWBAR

Page 22 of this pdf has a picture of the drawbar assembly for the 10k 4020.
http://www.fadalvmcparts.com/manuals...d/VMC_4020.pdf


I got some info from practicalmachinist.com too.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...=fadal+drawbar

[DareBee]

This is a great thread!!! Thanks again little bubba and I'm sorry Fadal Error, you are the one we have to learn on!(group)
Steve

agreed

thanks to your pain and suffering the rest of us can benefit

[Fadal Error]

Somehow my online order didn't go through, even though I can confirm it online with an order number and date. I called CNC Pros and reordered the parts, but the floater and the tool are on backorder. I think I will make the tool. I am still looking for a good description and pictures. The bummer is that I have to reinstall the old floater. I really need to get my mill back up and running, so maybe I will just have to do the job twice.

[little bubba]

try Kmac, or eagle machine in Tx.

[Fadal Error]

I just got an email notice that the floater shipped and should arrive next Tuesday. No tool though. I guess I will just make a tool. If I get mine to work I will post a photo and drawing because I can't find anything detailed enough right now.

[Fadal Error]

This just in! They just got a shipment of the tools. So now I leave the mill alone until the floater and tool get here next week.

[little bubba]

Doh! Oh well for future reference, link to a thread elsewhere, dims of the one you buy, and dims for the one I made that doesn't need a gear puller.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...dal+belleville

[Fadal Error]

Doh! Oh well for future reference, link to a thread elsewhere, dims of the one you buy, and dims for the one I made that doesn't need a gear puller.

The parts should be here any minute. I hope I can get it back together OK. I'm a little unhappy with CNC Pros. They don't show a picture of their tool on the website. I am getting the idea that it's not a complete tool. Do I need a gear puller to use it?

[Fadal Error]

I am starting a new thread with a title that fits the solution to the problem.

Belleville spring washer replacement

[Fadal Error]

Since this thread is the one with a cry for help and the one that is probably still sending emails to you guys with the knowledge...
What am I supposed to do with the tool from CNC Pros?

[little bubba]

You are going to have to get yourself a gear puller/steering wheel puller with 3 legs. There are 3 bolt holes up on top there, they may have cork in them. 5/16-18 I do believe.

Stack your bellevilles in, stuff your drawbar up there, use some grease on the bearings to keep them in place (do the floater first of course). Put something up inside the spindle to hold your drawbar in, a piece of 1/2" bar stock on a piece of wood, and then bring the head down.

Remember that little split ring that you had no problem getting off, that little stupid ring is what retains your springs under tension. So now pop whatever part it is (spider?) over the top of the drawbar, place that tool you have over it, its wrongside up in the picture. It SHOULD fit nicely. bolt your puller on and use the center stud to drive your tool down, your springs will start compressing, keep compressing them until you can get that split ring back in, and it can be a b***h! There is a lot of tension in there.

The two slots are there on the tool so you can get in there to work. Release the puller, toss some more parts back on and make chips.

[Fadal Error]

I got it back together today! Tool changes are sweet.
I took lots of pictures along the way.
I will post a comprehensive DIY in the new thread soon.

Things I learned: The tool from CNC Pros stinks. It did not even work for me. I think it is made for a different machine. The tech support guy told me to smash it down a little bit in a vise. So I destroyed it and it still wouldn't even come close to fitting. I made my own version. I also made a nice tool for inserting the floater. It removed the hassle. I don't know how you could do it without the tool I made, actually.

Now I am going on a short vacation. I expect to have lots of work for the mill when I get back.