[ETM Shop]

Some very serious detailing with a toothbrush and kerosene; 1/2 a roll of shop towels later, my mill is spotless. Now it is time to re-lube the ways and and screws.

Which oil do you typically use on your Syil SuperX3? I was intending to use Vactra #2 on both the vertical and horizontal ways.

http://www.mobil.com/Canada-English/...a_Numbered.asp

As for the noise. My spindle seems to be quite loud at all speeds. I removed the belt and ran the motor with no load. At no load, it runs very quiet, which leads me to believe that the spindle may be out of alignment from shipping.

My spindle experience is strictly with Haas and Bridgeports; when connected the SuperX3 spindle has growl to it, not at all the machine noise I expected. This is through the full range, not just top speed.

Is this something that has occured for anyone else, how difficult is it to disassemble and reassemble the spindle?

As far as the Syil conversions go and even the mill itself, everything appears t be top notch and I am very happy so far. Looking forward to getting it all tweaked and smoothed out.

[shellmac2]

I would check your motor bearings and maybe your drawbar under load could have some bad washers how old is the machine?

[ETM Shop]

The machine is brand new, just un-crated, never used.

[CountZero]

I don't know if it is close to the machine you have but here is a guide that may be useful: http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/prepgu...on%20Guide.pdf

[SyilAmerica]

The spindles do make some noise. I'm not clear as to why or where this sound originates. One customer took his bearings out and ran them in a polisher for awhile. Made them extremely quiet.

My quess is that the sound comes from the spindle bearings. All of which I've grown used to being a normal tone. All my other machines that are of a small size make the same sound as well.

They are a 6000 series metric bearing. There are other replacement bearings from FAG that are extreme precision... but... they are also expensive.

[SyilAmerica]

The Vactra #2 is a great oil. Most any #2 hydraulic oil will work well.

[ETM Shop]

CountZero: those are great instructions! I hope Syil eventually prepares something like that for the modified SuperX3.

SyilAmerica: The sound definitely seems to come from the spindle. Once I pulled the belt off I noticed that the spindle pulley turns stiffly but more importantly it sticks a little at different parts of the rotation.

Do you have any more information about the bearings (better yet mcmaster part numbers heh)? I suppose now is the time to tear into it rather than get further down the road.

[SyilAmerica]

That is a great guide. The machines run quite fine without prep, but sure gives you that luxury feel if you do perform some prep work.

Here are some alternative bearing numbers:

For the top bearing = 6006

A good quality 6006-ZZ is a good replacement. They are good up to 16k rpm. This is the easy one. They can be found fairly easy. Cost 20-35 for good ones.

Spindle bearing = Z007601

I haven't found too many high precision replacements. FAG makes one. Nice, single row spindle bearing. B7006-E-T-P4S. Best price I've been able to find is 195 Euro.

The spindle bearings that the unit comes with are really quite good. Very tight with little runout. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find any detailed specs it yet.

[ETM Shop]

I will say, I feel the the machine is very solid without much prep beyond cleaning.

When I uncrated my mill, I noticed a bit of weirdness in the spindle. It was a bit rougher to turn than I expected. After I read the last response I pulled the top bearing off today (It actually says CXWY 6007Z fwiw, and runs very smooth.) The roughness/growling I've observed can still be felt in the spindle without the top bearing when turned by hand (both fast and slow). I just want to try and hunt down the roughness and I think I'm on the right track thanks to everyone here.

[SyilAmerica]

The 6007 shield bearing is the bearing that holds the spindle gear. There are two other bearings. Top bearing is a 6006, and the lower is a spindle grade 7006, which is the important one. What makes the most differance is the lower. You may want to check the pre-load on the spindle bearings which is done via the two top spindle nuts. (underneath the top bearing that you removed) Loosen both, then tighten down ~10 ft/lbs, then back off 1/8th a turn, then tighten the top locker nut.

We have a similar sound in all the units. I am, however, pulling the main spindle bearing in the morning and going to flush and re-grease. I'll report the findings.

In theory, you can go up to 9k spindle speed with ceramic grade bearings in the spindle. (subject for another day)

[InspirationTool]

Good stuff to know...

Anyone know if the bearings are the same as the ones in the regular X3?

Thanks!

-Jeff

[ETM Shop]

So I pulled the spindle off (Takes a gentle touch.) and took it to the engineering shop at the local university.

First I checked the pre-load by removing the the two nuts and tightening them back down. This improved the rotation some but still not as smooth as I would have liked. So I sucked it up and broke down the entire spindle assembly.

The bearings were not what I expected, but they appear to be good quality. I personally would not consider adding an expensive super-precise bearing since there are probably other (and smaller) changes that would make a greater difference.

The spindle was somewhat dirty inside the spindle housing, there was a group of long hairs wrapped around the spindle in grease. After pressing off the bearings I put the spindle on a lathe and polished out the areas where the bearings fjt. Previously they had tool marks (They were smoother than other areas of the spindle.) from turning, now they are considerably smoother. I've attached photos that were taken after I returned from the shop. Unfortunately my fingerprints are all over them disrupting the surface finish.

The roller bearing is a 32907; It says QX 32907 QFF depending on where you start... Syil America, would the other bearing style you listed be compatible?

BTW: It had a what appeared to be lithium grease when disassembled, what do you suggest to use for reassembly?

[SyilAmerica]

Great pictures!

There are specific thermo stabilized greases for spindle operation. You are more than welcome to use them, but the intention was spindles traveling at over 9k rpm.

Best value would be a sythetic marine wheel bearing grease. Synthetic for the temperature stability and marine grade for the anti corrosion qualities. What dictates longevity and performance is cleanliness. Bearings don’t like dirt.

The bearings are good ones, and will serve you well. If you do want to change them, there are a myrid of choices. 32907X by NTN bearing are an upgraded bearing that costs as little as $42.

The specs are: 30mm Bore, 55mm OD, Width 13mm.

I suspect the the majority of the sounds anyone hears from these spindles are coming from the upper one. Part number 6006. They are a common part and have some spacing inbetween the balls in the race. (kind of sounds like a roller skate bearing). High grade ZZ (double stainless steel shielded) cost as little as $20.

You will notice that with the thicker grease the spindle is smoother when rotated by hand.

Nice work.

[BrendaEM]

At higher RPM's, I wonder if the spindle is wide enough that balance could affect vibration. If, so, I would assume that a good electric motor shop or turbine hobbyist could dynamically spin balance the spindle, if they knew where to remove material, and where not to.Perhaps the gear/sprocket that drives the spindle could be out of balance too.

[NC Cams]

Noise from any bearing is usually caused by either damage or dirt.

The use of incorrect force (hammer or press) will brinnell the bearings thus ruining them. Dirt/debris will cut the rolling elements and accelerate the demise of the part.

Once a bearing is scratched, damaged or cut, it does not heal over time - only a new part will fix the noise.

A bearing should either slip on the shaft or, in the event of an intentional press fit, if you freeze the shaft and heat the bearing on a hot plate, the parts will drop together. You do NOT ever use a hamme or a press to install spindle bearings.

A synthetic grease is good for sustained high speed use. Don't over grease as this can cause ball skidding or overheating due to viscous drag. Usually a 25% cavity fill is more than adequate for high speed use.

Kluber makes real good/expensive spindle lubes. The OEM's suggestion of a marine wheel bearing grease would work for typical general purpose use.

When you reassemble the taper, you want to assemble it with 0.000" end play. I do NOT subscribe to the torque it then loosen it method of adjusting a taper.

Why? Too easy to skid and scuff the rollers unless you're simultaneously turning and tightening the shaft while torquing it.

You're better off slowly creeping up on the tightening process as in tighten a bit, rotate to reseat the rollers then recheck axial clearance then repeat until you get 0.000" travel in BOTH axial directions.

When you get O.000" end play under load, you're at optimum preload fo minimum friction/max stiffness for a taper.

More preload will help stiffness BUT you'll pay a bit more in friction. Go a bit too far and you'll brinnel the bearings or scuff he ends of the rollers where they ride against the flange.

When you get a taper adjusted with 0.000" end play, there will feel a drag but it should still rotate glassy/silky smooth with no binding or momentary sticking. If it sticks, there's probably a high spot someplace that needs to be found/fixed.

Take your time and you'll be rewarded with a smooth, quite running spindle....