[dannystooblue]

I would only consider buying MC. I know it will do what I want in a reasonable amount of time.


Um, this vote didn't reach all 80,000 worldwide MC users, it only reached people that visit CNCzone.

I just hit the link Mike sent, wanted to see what the emactercam site was, when I got there it said there were over 95k seats installed worldwide, that is a good bit more than the 80k I had thought. I am still wondering how many mc users there are on the zone that didn't vote for it in this poll? I never implied that all 80k or 95k seats are here on the zone, but the zone is probably made up of at least 30% mc users...maybe?

Oh, Mike, 15 min to program a 40hr MC part? That seems a little far out, I agree with the guys that you probably meant 40 min mc part, thats still a pretty agressive statement.

Danny

[Mike Stevenson]

It is very easy to achieve these reduced programming times by using Feature Based Machining and Programming Automation. This is accomplished with Parametric Part Modeling and User Defined Machining Macros.

[Mastercam User]

I'd like to read a detailed comparison between Mastercam X2 MR2 and UG CAM from someone intimately familiar with both. The argument that I most often read is UG CAM is too hard to use for simple parts and I'm not sure I buy into this. Specific areas that interest me in a head to head comparison between the two systems are chaining; is it easier and faster to chain with UG CAM because it's CAD is so much more powerful than Mastercam X2 MR2? Machining Operations Manager; is UG CAM Machining Operation Manager more robust and better laid out? Solid cut part verification and backplotting; I'm not real happy with Mastercam solid cut part verification. Backplotting is not bad but certainly could be better. Other than these areas I'm enjoying using Mastercam X2 MR2. Still have a lot to learn about Mastercam and a long way to go to get where I want to be with it.

[zfarkas]

I think user input is more important then "the perfect CAM system".

even the best cam system can be terrible in wrong hands...

[Rekd]

It is very easy to achieve these reduced programming times by using Feature Based Machining and Programming Automation. This is accomplished with Parametric Part Modeling and User Defined Machining Macros.

Oh, my.

Sounds like Mike is standing by his foolish assumption that MC can't produce in a timely manner. :banana:

Although he still refuses to provide any validity to his claim. (nuts)

[crazythunder]

Mike how much time in the Macro's and parametric programming means you have all of your files in Catia. What do you do when your customer gives you .step files? What do you do when they give you a print and no model? That time to make the model is part of programming, but since you can make models in 1 minute in Catia I guess that still give you 14 minutes to program it. :bs::bs:

Look you can cut times when you are that ideal world, but guess what the rest of us live in reality and for what maintenance on a seat of Catia, and ICAM cost per year you can pay for a seat of Mastercam. Smaller shops that do have that kind of coin and they need a capable and able program to get the job done and not break the bank and Mastercam is that tool. We are a $3 mil shop and to spend over $100k on a Cad/CAM package and over $15/k on a Post package and then have a Over $15K maintenance yearly on it can by another machine that can make money.

Tell Snow White, and all the other people in Fairy Tale land we said hello. :banana: :banana:

[whoudini7]

We have mori seiki NT4250's, we are attempting to use catia to program but catia is not a true mill/turn package, it is cutting and pasting lathe and 3axis mill stuff in the background, no transfer to sub spindle, etc. . I am looking for someone that is programming a MT or NT with a cadcam package. What software are you useing? what is the best software for this style machine?

I need some feedback soon so help me out if ya can.. Thanks..

I have been programing for about 18 years, I have used Gibbs, MC, surfcam, and currently we are a CATIA shop, catia seems to have a lot of "work arounds" and processes with bugs, they do a great job of modeling but for the cost of a seat, the CAM side is lacking. We have presented issues to IBM and DASSAULT, they acknowledged the bug but said too bad, we are not going to fix it till later- We are looking for a out of the box software that can program our NT's completely..

[Mike Stevenson]

We are looking for a out of the box software that can program our NT's completely..

Then Siemens NX CAM is your answer:

http://www.plm.automation.siemens.co...mulation.shtml

[Cammotion]

Then Siemens NX CAM is your answer:

http://www.plm.automation.siemens.co...mulation.shtml

I'd have to agree with Mike, I used Surfcam for about 10 years, then was told I was going to NX3. I hated to have to start over learning a system, but I'm glad I did. We're on NX5 now, and will be moving to NX6 this year. We use Team Center Engineering as our database. It was a steep learning curve learning those two along with Vericut, but if you're coming from Catia, you shouldn't have as tough a time as I had coming from Surfcam. I can't speak for the turning portion, as our shop guys do the lathe stuff in Mastercam. Also, I believe NX is comparable in price to Catia. Good luck.

[whoudini7]

Ok, Mike and Commotion, do you know if this system can program the NT? Have either of you used it to program NT style machines? I'm not disputing your claims just checking your credentials.

Mori recomends Esprit, does anyone have experience with that?

[Mike Stevenson]

Ok, Mike and Commotion, do you know if this system can program the NT? Have either of you used it to program NT style machines? I'm not disputing your claims just checking your credentials.

Mori recomends Esprit, does anyone have experience with that?

I have no experience with Esprit. Why don't you call both companies and get a demo from each. And please post back here with your results.

[Cammotion]

Ok, Mike and Commotion, do you know if this system can program the NT? Have either of you used it to program NT style machines? I'm not disputing your claims just checking your credentials.

Mori recomends Esprit, does anyone have experience with that?

No, I have never programmed the Mori NT. Why don't you call Siemens and ask them if they have a post for that machine, or if they can write one. NX is one of the premier CAD/CAM packages you can buy.

[Mike Stevenson]

NX is one of the premier CAD/CAM packages you can buy.

True and Siemens UGS has more than 4 million seats of NX worldwide.

[Mastercam User]

No, I have never programmed the Mori NT. Why don't you call Siemens and ask them if they have a post for that machine, or if they can write one. NX is one of the premier CAD/CAM packages you can buy.

It's a shame that we don't read more comparisons of Mastercam X2 to UG NX CAM. I think it would be very helpful to know what areas UG NX CAM has it all over Mastercam. From what I can tell UG NX lathe is much better than Mastercam lathe and so is UG NX CAM solid verification, which works on G-code and not an internal CAM file. On E-Mastercam all I ever read is how hard UG NX is for simple stuff and I have a very hard time believing this is still true. I heard that a new version of UG NX is going to be released in June. I think the price of the UG CAM Express version (without the UG CAD but the exact same CAM as NX) is about the same price as Mastercam is. Don't know if that's true or not.

[Mike Stevenson]

It's a shame that we don't read more comparisons of Mastercam X2 to UG NX CAM. I think it would be very helpful to know what areas UG NX CAM has it all over Mastercam. From what I can tell UG NX lathe is much better than Mastercam lathe and so is UG NX CAM solid verification, which works on G-code and not an internal CAM file. On E-Mastercam all I ever read is how hard UG NX is for simple stuff and I have a very hard time believing this is still true. I heard that a new version of UG NX is going to be released in June. I think the price of the UG CAM Express version (without the UG CAD but the exact same CAM as NX) is about the same price as Mastercam is. Don't know if that's true or not.

Everything you say is true except for the NX being hard for simple stuff part. How can you beat fully integrated G code and machine tool simulation with a postprocessor that WORKS? On top of that you can get the fully loaded version of NX CAD/CAM for around 20K.

[Chester]

If your drawing 2d, then popping holes and milling flats, any of them work. If its a truly complex product, Pro E for drafting, then SmartCam for machining. Once you use it, you'll see that everything else is just a lot of extra work.

[whoudini7]

"Then I would suggest you go buy a seat of Esprit immediately. I would take the word of your machine tool builder who is in cahoots with Esprit to sell systems than the word of more experienced folk."-- Mike stevenson


Mike, this is your comment and I don't really understand your between the lines intention.
Is it not true that any product is better when the manufactures combine/share the efforts/knowledge with it's partners? does it not make a product better when they have the inside knowledge of how the machine tool functions?
I am sure colaborated efforts lead to better end products.

Now let's look at your experience, you say you have no experience programming NT's, have you programmed any millturn style machines? You also said you have no experience with Esprit, but you critisize it? What do you have experience in?

I am already using Catia, so I don't need UG NX which cost about the same, very expensive, and seems to provide the same benifits, by the way are you selling software or using it? I generally don't question others experience or knowledge, you state you have neither for my application, so I am not sure how to validate your claims.

[Mike Stevenson]

Instead of worrying about my experience why don't you call both companies and get a demo from each like I said before? Or would you rather try to get your answers here in the court of public opinion?

[whoudini7]

Mike, believe me the last thing I am worried about is your experience, although I see your quiet good and have plenty of experience at being a smart ass; instead of answering the questions presented before you. for your information I have already had a couple of vendors in for a demo, and if you have any experience in purchasing a cam system you should know that just about anyone can make something look good during a demo, the perfect presentations, I am looking for a in depth evaluation/opinion of the available software packages, SOOOO if you have no experience with either the software mentioned or the machine style I listed and if you have nothing other than sarcastic remarks to make, please find another thread to reply to, I am serious here and need real feedback..

[Mike Stevenson]

whoudini7,

This thread is titled, "What is the best 3D CAM software?" NOT "Help me find programming software for my Mori seiki NT." No wonder no one has replied to your demands. (wrong)