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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    132

    What me worry build

    I purchased joes new 4x4 plans and started building with a few tweaks of my own. I thought maybe everybody here might learn from my mistakes and get a chuckle or two out this build. I liked Joe's easy to understand plans but decided to mod a little. I went 4x8 instead. here are some pics of my build as I stumble through.
    Started with 2x2 1/8 wall tubing, then 2x4 14 gauge tubing on sides.
    It echoed a lot in the garage with my mockup rollers, so i filled the 2x4 tube with foam to quiet it. Last Pics is the rail system i used. its 1x1 hot rolled cheap angle iron and i welded 1/4 x 2 inch cold rolled flat stock for the rail.
    Im using Ahrens skate rollers. Ill show them in future pics. I have 4 inch wheels and 1-inch rod for levelers.
    So far so good. Im a large 32nd off from one side to the other but i dont think thats gonna make a difference. Ill try to keep this post current as i work on things. Im trying to make my gear reduction box for the rack and pinion. Rack will go in the center of the 2x4. All I can do is mess it up.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails cnc machine build 004.jpg   clamping2x4.JPG   color foam.JPG   foam closeup.JPG  

    rail.JPG  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1147
    Man the machine looks bigger than your tracker. What you plan on making? Also does the foam quite it down a lot? When you tap on the side is it just a dull thud?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    132

    5x10base

    Its not that much bigger than a sheet of plywood.I will be able to do over sized 4x8 sheet goods. (49x97 etc) Im not sure what ill do with it. Maybe rubber stamps/foam/signage/trophies/cabinets/musical instruments/toys etc. who knows, but it will be a destination to look forward to.
    Yes its a dull thud instead of a pipe ringing echo.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1147
    I look forward to your progress. I'm designing my next cnc and I may just have to use your foam technique on it

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    132

    foam

    very cheap insulating foam (3 us dollars) for filling cracks. It took 2 cans per 10ft .

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    132

    My rack in place

    Heres a pic of my rack in place. . It a 1/2/ inch away from the frame. Anybody do it this way before? I couldnt find anything when searching. Will it twist without support behind it or should I fix it?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails rack2.JPG   rack3.JPG  

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1086
    That's quite a beast of a machine! Very clever with the foam. I definitely should have done something like that for my initial test videos of my new R&P setup (or at least covered the mic It also looks like you have a good span on the rollers -- should be a really stout machine.

    I'd love to see some pictures of your gear reduction. What motors are you planning on using?

    Ahren
    www.cncrouterparts.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    132

    long time coming

    Quote Originally Posted by ahren View Post
    That's quite a beast of a machine! Very clever with the foam. I definitely should have done something like that for my initial test videos of my new R&P setup (or at least covered the mic It also looks like you have a good span on the rollers -- should be a really stout machine.

    I'd love to see some pictures of your gear reduction. What motors are you planning on using?

    Ahren
    www.cncrouterparts.com
    Well im back
    here are some pics of my progress. Ahren, im using your rollers and their rolling fine they are 10 inches apart. keling 640oz 4 wire 4amp with a 3:1 gear reduction.heres the pieces of the gear box. and you know those bearing blocks are not all square! so I had to shim some of them to make them work. Im using xl gears 20 /60 tooth gears/20tooth pinion and 80 tooth xl belt from belt palace .
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails gear1.JPG   gear2.JPG   gear3.JPG   sideview.JPG  


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    132

    more pics and gantry

    so heres the gantry side. You can see what I started with and what I ended up with. We have lots of alum scrap, so that saves me a bunch of money. And to think I started with Joes 4X4 plan and this is what it looks like now. If it wasnt for Joes plans, I never would have attempted this. His plans are so simple to understand, that even a dummy like me figured it out.(grin)
    The top bridge is 10inches wide and on top of that will be a 4x6 aluminum tube which ill arrange all the z-slide stuff. If I dont screw it up. Im making this up as I go and so far nothing has fallen off!!!(grin) Next msg is about the z slide and some parts I found.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails gantryside.JPG   gantryview.JPG   withspring.JPG  

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    132

    z slide parts

    Here is where I really dont understand the concept of a backlash nut. I found these parts at work. Its a 10 per inch screw with a backlash nut i think. I just dont know how Im going to use them and what parts i need to make them work. Ive seen a few pics of z slides using this springy type nut but nothing definite or clear enough for these ole' eyes to discern. Anybody know which side is up or a way i can use these? I assume the nut has to be screwed to something. If you have a pic, id like to see it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails acme1.JPG   acme22.jpg  

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1147
    Quote Originally Posted by oldhack View Post
    Here is where I really dont understand the concept of a backlash nut. I found these parts at work. Its a 10 per inch screw with a backlash nut i think. I just dont know how Im going to use them and what parts i need to make them work. Ive seen a few pics of z slides using this springy type nut but nothing definite or clear enough for these ole' eyes to discern. Anybody know which side is up or a way i can use these? I assume the nut has to be screwed to something. If you have a pic, id like to see it.
    Glad to see you making progress on your best.

    I haven't seen one of those anti-backlash nuts before, but that doesn't mean much coming from me. I would think the threaded side would be the bottom on a Z axes. Run it through a bearing block on the bottom and use a nut to hold it on tight. You could then use the top non threaded side with a another bearing block and a coupler to connect it to your stepper. Best I can come up with on the spot. Hopefully someone else can give you some better ideas.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35494
    The nut's usually screw into a flange that can be bolted in place.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/15-16-16-RH-Flan...d=p3286.c0.m14

    http://www.roton.com/Flange.aspx?line=Recirculating
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    8082
    Quote Originally Posted by oldhack View Post
    Here is where I really dont understand the concept of a backlash nut. I found these parts at work. Its a 10 per inch screw with a backlash nut i think. I just dont know how Im going to use them and what parts i need to make them work. Ive seen a few pics of z slides using this springy type nut but nothing definite or clear enough for these ole' eyes to discern. Anybody know which side is up or a way i can use these? I assume the nut has to be screwed to something. If you have a pic, id like to see it.

    My guess is that the left end threads must screw into a mounting plate and the right end "floats". The spring just keeps tension on the floating nut on the right end. My only question is whether the right end goes through the spring and into the left end nut where it is captive, but able to move a little lengthwise. This is how most spring loaded anti-backlash that I've seen work. It doesn't matter what the orientation is because the rod turns in both directions anyway.

    CarveOne
    CarveOne
    http://www.carveonecncwoodcraft.com

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    132

    what i found so far

    Quote Originally Posted by CarveOne View Post
    My guess is that the left end threads must screw into a mounting plate and the right end "floats". The spring just keeps tension on the floating nut on the right end. My only question is whether the right end goes through the spring and into the left end nut where it is captive, but able to move a little lengthwise. This is how most spring loaded anti-backlash that I've seen work. It doesn't matter what the orientation is because the rod turns in both directions anyway.

    CarveOne
    Im not sure of the orientation either. this looks like this kerk anti backlash nut thread type style. I still dont know how to use this bugger. If I use the threaded side and make it stationary and the put a bearing block on the smooth end if that will do it. I guess i need to see one in action in a video before i understand what im doing. Some things come slow sometimes. Im going to look for a video next, There has to be one somewhere right!! (grin) and thanks all you guys for your input.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails VHDkerk.jpg   figNoggle_ACMELeadScrewHori.jpg   figNoggle_ACMELeadScrewVert.jpg  

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1185
    Quote Originally Posted by oldhack View Post
    Here is where I really dont understand the concept of a backlash nut. I found these parts at work. Its a 10 per inch screw with a backlash nut i think. I just dont know how Im going to use them and what parts i need to make them work. Ive seen a few pics of z slides using this springy type nut but nothing definite or clear enough for these ole' eyes to discern. Anybody know which side is up or a way i can use these? I assume the nut has to be screwed to something. If you have a pic, id like to see it.

    The 10 TPI will be slow if you use it for the y axes. It would be good for the Z but you might think ballscrew for the Z. You might look at this unit it could go cheep.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=180391197890

    It is a little big.

    The nut you have is a camlock system. The nut is two half's with a cam cut on the inside part, the spring makes the cams rotate to remove the slop.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    8082
    Quote Originally Posted by oldhack View Post
    Im not sure of the orientation either. this looks like this kerk anti backlash nut thread type style. I still dont know how to use this bugger. If I use the threaded side and make it stationary and the put a bearing block on the smooth end if that will do it. I guess i need to see one in action in a video before i understand what im doing. Some things come slow sometimes. Im going to look for a video next, There has to be one somewhere right!! (grin) and thanks all you guys for your input.
    In your latest photos the black flange is how you mount it to the gantry if the lead screw is the X axis. When the lead screw is rotated by the stepper motor, the flange pushes the gantry by way of the connecting block. The end with the brass (or bronze) ring is only following the lead screw. Nothing gets attached to this end of the anti-backlash nut assembly. Look at the www.dumpstercnc.com website to find something similar to the one in your photos, but of simpler construction.

    CarveOne
    CarveOne
    http://www.carveonecncwoodcraft.com

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    132
    Quote Originally Posted by arizonavideo View Post
    The 10 TPI will be slow if you use it for the y axes. It would be good for the Z but you might think ballscrew for the Z. You might look at this unit it could go cheep.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=180391197890

    It is a little big.

    The nut you have is a camlock system. The nut is two half's with a cam cut on the inside part, the spring makes the cams rotate to remove the slop.
    X (two motors)and Y(one motor) are both R&P with some keling motors. Im just trying to see if what i have is useful, but it doesnt look like it is. I like the thompson slide for the Z but just a little too long. I think thats the right track for me though. It just might be easier just to buy a preassembled unit. Im trying to keep the machine cost under 3000.00 us dollars, so ill see what i can get on ebay.

    Hey guys, thanks for your help and when i get to next level, ill post some more pics.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    132

    Electronics next

    summer is over (many chores !!!)and now back to the machine.
    As you see from the pics, i have the gantry done and the z-slide ready to put on.(easy). The whole gantry is aluminum. All motors are geared with a 3:1 ratio. I have the R&P on both sides and the top. Everything runs smoothly manually. Im using Ahrens rollers on the sides and they roll easily with a 100lb gantry.I have to finish the table top with MDF and get ready to cut out a plenum for the vacuum table top, so I havent done that yet.
    This next step is got me completely confused and I dont have a clue as what to do. The more i read, the less I understand.
    Yep Thats Right....
    ELECTRONICS!!!!! HELP!!!!!!!
    I have 2 keling stepper motors (nema34) that run at (640 oz)4 amps-4.1v(x slide) and 2 at (465oz) 6amps-1.7v.(Z slide/ Y Slide)
    Do I need a 20 amp power supply or larger to run these or should i choose some smaller motors?
    I was on Gecko and saw that the 203v should work, but all was confusing and no diagrams to show whats what.Im a picture guy and a picture is worth a 1000 words to me. Keling has a wiring diagram for their stuff but I guess Im just too damn stupid to figure this out. Any help would be appreciated.
    Will the 4 motors be running at full amperage all the time or does that vary.
    I know in the house a 20 amp circuit will run up to 20 amps of stuff at one time if needed but usually you dont have that.
    Anybody suggest an uncomplicated way of wiring this up.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails sidemount.JPG   Top Gantry.JPG   router setup.JPG   zslide.JPG  


  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    8082
    Add up the phase current ratings of the four motors to get a total phase current number, multiply that number by 0.67 to get the power supply amperage needed. If you use G203V drivers you can use up to 72vdc power supply. The drivers max out at 80v and shut down. 48v will work well but will not give the maximum speed and torque. Keling sells unregulated power supplies that can handle the four motors. A 15 amp supply will do it with some margin.

    The G203V will require a breakout board like the C11G from cnc4pc.com to handle home and limit switches, router on/off under gcode command, etc.

    The Gecko site has a jpeg file that shows the typical wiring pictorially. Also driver cooling. No, it isn't exactly easy to understand the wiring for the non-technically inclined, but everyone muddles through it eventually, or gets help online or locally.


    CarveOne
    CarveOne
    http://www.carveonecncwoodcraft.com

  20. #20
    Unless your dust collection is way better than mine, I'd suggest adding some type of way wipers or complete coverage for Ahren's carriages. Dust tends to get packed down by the bearings on the flat surfaces. I'm not sure if all the guys using pipe rails and skate bearings have this problem, but I'd guess not as much as there is a curved surface for the dust to get pushed towards where as on the flat rail, it just gets packed down. You might also want it for the rack on your Y axis - I would think there would be similar issues there with dust getting packed down by the pinion.

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