[WOTDesigns]

Hello all. I have read almost every article on the first 6 pages and have decided to buy a pcnc 1100 later this year or the beginning of next year after taking some classes at the JC. I have never seen a forum where almost every single post is how to DO something and not how to FIX a defect. PCNC WINS.:banana:

I have been manual machining for the last year and am getting tired of saying "this would be SO easy on a cnc"... after a hundred hours of research I know the PCNC is the way to go, but I need to move first so I can have access to 220v because the lack of support for the 700 is a turn off. I want a machine that will grow with me i.e. ATC, PDB, 4th axis, ect.

Question: Local college offers CNC Programming Using Mastercam and CNC Programming Using SURFCAM. Both have identical descriptions and both offer an advanced course I can take later. I am wondering which would be better to take?

It seems like Sprutcam is the only option on tormach's website for 4th axis. I see people complaining about all of the issues with Sprutcam so is the best option to buy Mastercam/SURFCAM/CAMBAM??? As I understand it Sprutcam is "tailored" to Tormach in their version right? Is it better to buy a different CAM or just learn the issues with Sprutcam?

I have Solidworks 2008 and will be getting 2011 long before I get to start these classes, but I am wanting to get the most out of the classes by learning the one that is closest to what I will be using.

your input is greatly appreciated.

[R.DesJardin]

You have the money to buy 4th axis Mastercam or Surfcam along with Solidworks well then you get which ever you want it's just a personal preference. Me I have Alibre and Sprut, they both work and they get the job done with very little issues. And by the way you will have issues with any CAD/CAM package. We have both Matercam and Surfcam at my real job and the Mastercam is not my favorite at all, and I have had less than stellar customer support. We also use Solidworks and it too crashes or locks up randomly. Enjoy.

[WOTDesigns]

thanks. I didn't mean to sound loaded- quite the contrary. solidworks was a gift- I bought a laptop from a friend that already had it loaded and 2011 will be paid for by a customer not me.

I am financing the tormach and the difference between with and without 4th axis is negligible. I won't be getting the atc yet, but will get the tts and pdb &4th. software I can only finance if its from tormach so buying different software would have to be out of pocket.

I'm just wanting to know if I should just go with sprutcam and if so which class I would be better off learning.

[bobeson]

As you've probably read a number of times, although there are many issues with SprutCAM, it does eventually get more things done for much less money than any other available solution. The good news is that SprutCAM gets better with every major release, and I do believe that many of the current problems will eventually resolve.
Personally, I'm still finding hand-written gcode my preferred solution whenever I can get away with it. Complex geometries and a desire for better productivity (not often realized) prompt me to work with SprutCAM for many parts, but I usually wish I wasn't, and often end up hand-coding solutions to particular operations. I also have SolidWorks and VisualMill for Solidworks. VisualMill seems promising, but I need to upgrade to the full solution in order to be fully satisfied. In the meantime, I'm still investing in climbing the SprutCAM learning curve, trying to make it more reliably productive for my one-off needs. I'm not quite there yet, but I'm reasonably sure I'll find a comfortable working portion of the SprutCAM capabilities with which to reliably do what I need.

If I were in your shoes, I think I'd buy the SprutCAM pcnc-locked license along with the rest of the machinery. You can upgrade to the all-posts version later if needed.

[WOTDesigns]

thank you bobeson for the reply. I hope that either of the two classes would teach gcode to understand the principals behind the software. I am not at all opposed to sprutcam since I don't even know what I'm doing I an trying to figure out which class would be closest to sprutcam so I would get the most out if my class when I start with the pcnc and sprutcam if that is the way to go

[Don Clement]

I have Solidworks 2010 64bit and SprutCAM 7. Also a PCNC 1100 with PDB & 4th axis. SprutCAM 7 works very well for me and can be invoked from within Solidworks. ( SprutCAM is a Solidworks partner) If its a simple job then I just write the Gcode by hand. But for complex 3D parts CAM is the way to go. I taught myself, not only machining but also Gcode. Never used a CNC machine nor wrote Gcode before buying the PCNC. The difference between getting SprutCAM with your PCNC and buying MasterCAM with 4th axis is ~$9K. There is a lot one can do with that $9K and it is possible to teach oneself as I am proof of that approach. Tormach now has many excellent tutorials for SprutCAM online so it is even easier to teach oneself. IMO go with SprutCAM and teach yourself Gcode and CAM and put the $9K to better uses.

Don

[WOTDesigns]

I like your logic don. I planned to do the same thing butnow that I am planning to move just to run the pcnc I have time to take the class for less than the cost of a few tools.

I have no doubt that I could learn it given time, just want to figure out which class to take to jump start my learning process.

I read most of the pcnc manual and still can not get over how well it was written for new users. literally the best manual I have ever seen. I really think armed only with that manual I could start making parts in a matter of days or weeks. I am just wanting to figure out which class to take: mastercam or surfcam

[dbrija]

+1 for the Alibre and Sprutcam combo. A few quirks with each, but a lot of bang for the buck.

[SteveKoerner]

I agree that Tormach's manual and docmentation is quite good.

I don't understand the idea of having to move for 220 single phase power. If you have 110 power, just get a step-up transformer. The power requirement is not that great.

I suspect that's just your excuse and what you really want is a bigger workshop. Am I right?

[WOTDesigns]

I agree that Tormach's manual and docmentation is quite good.

I don't understand the idea of having to move for 220 single phase power. If you have 110 power, just get a step-up transformer. The power requirement is not that great.

I suspect that's just your excuse and what you really want is a bigger workshop. Am I right?

shhhh... I've only been married for 8 days and my logic is working so far...

you are correct. my "shop" is completely run off of 4 HD extension cords and though I have never tripped a breaker or burned a cord I am scared to up the power draw. I only have a one car detached garage ana that too won't cut it with an almost 8'x4' machine.

I talked to the landlord about updating the electric since ours is from the 50s I think: 4 x 30 amp breakers. it was a no go.

[WATERJET71]

oH Man we are running in to the same problem here. the only difference is that I'm buying the mini mill but dont know what CAd program to learn.I do alot of manual machining but have never run a CNC . I do program lasers,waterjets,and NC turrets at my regular work. And I'm triying the same thing on a one car garage.

[Scott_M]

I would have to say that taking either of those classes may be a setback if your real intention is to use Sprut. They all do things differently and use different terminology. I have used MasterCam , Feature Cam and fiddled with NX. I now use SprutCam and I can honestly say that I saw no benefit from having used the others. But I have been plenty confused trying to apply the logic from the others to Sprut. If you intend to use Sprut skip the other classes and do all the tutorials you can find for sprut. And buy Peter Smids book on G-Code.


Scott

[Don Clement]

And buy Peter Smids book on G-Code.

+1 on Smid

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Handbook-Third-Peter-Smid/dp/0831133473"]Amazon.com: CNC Programming Handbook, Third Edition (9780831133474): Peter Smid: Books[/ame]

Don

[harley4ever]

Take a look at Dolphin CAD CAM. It's been great for me.

[Magnum164]

With software if you have an option make sure you download a demo and use the heck out of it. Don't overlook VisualMill, it is more pricey but I find it's easier for me to use than SprutCam. And it is also a Solidworks partner.

Just make sure you purchase a CAM that is not integrated into your CAD. So if you decided to switch either you are not stuck.

[kevperro]

Just get SprutCam if you buy the Tormach. I bought BobCad because when I bought my machine Tormach was not partnered with SprutCam and didn't have good tutorials. That has all changed and they have support available to help get things figured out.

I wish I had bought SprutCam because the BobCad guys are kind of like dealing with a slimy used car salesman.

[Magnum164]

because the BobCad guys are kind of like dealing with a slimy used car salesman.

+1

had to hang up on them the other day.

[kevperro]

+1

had to hang up on them the other day.

I don't know why they think that method is effective. They are going to learn the hard way that news travels fast on the web.

Last time I had them on the phone over some "special" they were running I said I'd give them $25 for it (it was $1K) and that ended the conversation quick.

[WOTDesigns]

okay.. sprutcam it is!

thanks for the input guys. I registered for fall yesterday but can't enroll for another month. looking at taking a solidworks class and cnc basic set up and operation. it will at least let me play with a cnc in the unlimited labs.

[dbrija]

okay.. sprutcam it is!

thanks for the input guys. I registered for fall yesterday but can't enroll for another month. looking at taking a solidworks class and cnc basic set up and operation. it will at least let me play with a cnc in the unlimited labs.

It's $400 more, but I'd recommend the "All Posts" version so that A) you can tweak the post to your liking and B) you can download or create posts for other non-Tormach machines.

Otherwise, you are stuck with just the encrypted Tormach post.