[HellPhish]

Probably so. It works really well on the crud the chinese pack their SKS' and AKs in so it'll work pretty well on red goo too.

Plus it smells almost as good as dykem.

cosmoline is nasty/annoying stuff


troy, looks good

[degreaser]

Yeah, I think I'll go ahead and rip it apart. It's a little daunting... but if I never get in over my head, I'll never learn.. LOL

Thanks for the pictures. I was trying to figure out what you were doing with pipe

[TroyO]

I rounded the ends of the gib screws, so they will impart pressure but (hopefully) not an angle bias on the gib strip.

Small problem that I'm not sure how I want to fix yet... the gib, like the one on my lathe "floats" on the pips. So... since it sounds like you want the bottom of the gib on the bottom way... I'm not sure how/if I want to move the gib (Or more exactly the pips on the gib) to make them line up.

Tap it with a mig weld on the pips, then file flat and re-drill?

[degreaser]

When I drilled the seats for my new gibs, I tried as closely as possible to line the hole up with the seat so as to apply force only in the horizontal direction. This force would then be only met with forces normal to the base and dovetail and would help ensure a good gib contact with the rest of the base. I drilled them deep enough so that the tip of the dog screw was fully engaged.

You could try to fill it with a mig weld. It may warp though. Or maybe you could flip it over and drill new seats.

[TroyO]

I hit it with the mig. Because of my extensive welding knowledge :bs: you can hardly tell where I did it... you know, if you were blind. And stricken with an inability to feel anything. (I've got a mig welder I have never ever used... first time I ever touched it, LOL.)

Anyway... it's fuctional... filled it in enough to redrill without sliding in to the original holes.

I re-filed, it hadn't messed it up much.

Then I put the gib in backwards and proceeded to mark the wrong side of it with the screws. Ohhh well, we will call those "Oil pockets" from now on.

So, then I flipped it the right way, marked the right right side and hand drilled new seats... as close to 90 to the set screws as I could.

But.... lookie at this! The gib is now in the right place, and at the right angle to the dovetail. (Before it was in contact at the top but the bottom was being held away from the dovetail.) yay! I think this gonna work!

It is making me glad I am going brass on the X and Y gibs... it won't be any more work than trying to "fix" such crappy stock ones.

[TroyO]

I used valve grinding compound, and got the nice grey "I've been ground" finish over about 90% of what touches now.

What does a good, accurate gib feel like? LOL.... this thing goes from sliding smooth to dead locked with just finger torque... not sure if that's a good thing or not? It seems to slide with no noticible side play at that verrry narrow sweet spot though.

Anyway... just about done for the night. I'll do some clean up to make sure I don't grit-contaminate anything and throw it together with some oil and see what she does.

[thudson]

I did a nice mirror finish on my Y-axis gibs, and only lightly polished the ways. My limited understanding is that the grooves in the ways hold lubricant and you don't want mirrors on mirrors (highly technical terms there LOL).

Anyway, with a bit of fiddling, my Y-axis has zero play, no twist, and very even pressure across the entire travel. Maybe beginners luck, but a gazillion times better than when I started.

My X-axis gib is shiny, but only on two half-inch spots on each end. My impression is that the gib wasn't adjusted evenly and on that slow boat from China it warped.

Or maybe they were out of lead and melamine that day.

I must be a sucker for torture, I bought the 7x(10 eighths of an inch) lathe today. Maybe the red goo is addictive.

I've been trying to put together a tooling purchase from LMS. The starter package for the lathe looks good, but the starter package for R8 mini mills looks like it has a lot of stuff that would get little use if you plan on CNCing the lathe. I don't think I'll need a vise with a swivel base. I am debating the collet set, I eventually want a Tormach style quick change and ATC. I've never used 1-2-3 blocks before.

Either way, I feel like I am making a tuition payment for someones kid at LMS, as well as buying a nice dinner for someone at UPS. Don't mind the LMS tuition so much, just don't want to add any beer money to that.

[TroyO]

It's pretty darn smooth now... I'm happy with it.

No play, anywhere along the travel. It gets just a little stiffer as it reaches the top of the column..... but not much.

No perceptable wiggle whatsoever and I can slide the casting along with just the weight of the column keeping it from moving.

My hands are now grey... LOL. Ohh well.

Next, lapping the mating surfaces of the two pieces that make up the head. Then, assembly and some precision measurement combined with some neanderthalic adjustment. (I wish there was a better way than measuring .0001 then hitting with a hammer... LOL.)

[TroyO]

Whoo! That feels good.. I'm dialed in to within .0005 @ 6" in both directions. I think I will lock away the allen wrenches and put a museum rope around it so no one touches it.... got LUUUUCKKY! LOL.

I'm better aligned then the runout is in my spindle (.001)... I'll take it.

It took about 6 times removing, shimming, removing, shimming etc. Aluminum tape was too much, 2 layers of thin AL foil not quite enough... ended up with 2.5 layers of AL foil at the bottom of the head which finally got it just right. (2 cover the bottom row of the casting, one covers half the bottom row. It was just a touch over until I tightened it down, which matched my theory.

It took me another 4 times on/off the column to tighten it withough horking it up.... tighten a little, put it back on and check.. remove, tighten, recheck (tap harder) and so on.

Next question..... LOL, how to touch up the runout in the spindle? ;P

[HellPhish]

<snip>

Next question..... LOL, how to touch up the runout in the spindle? ;P

very carefully. i really dunno, im jus reading through this thread to prepare for an SX2. so far so good troy

[Teyber12]

try turning on your spindle and rubbing a dry sponge up in your spindle. i had .002" runout but i guess there was some mdf dust or something in there as when i sponged it my runout went to .00025". Hope its something like this.

cheers

[TroyO]

I noticed the edges of the relief slots on my collet set are really sharp, and may have a bur edge on them. I will touch them up lightly with a stone just to be sure, that may be all it is.

Not much else to report yet.. I drilled/tapped the holes for the LMS Air Spring kit according to the directions on the site. (Taking it on pure faith that they haven't changed the kit.. LOL.) The kit should be here this week. BTW... the tapped holes are awefully close to the bolts that hold the head cairrage and spindle block together. I don't think I hit them while drilling but it's a closer fit than I would have preffered. I should have just made a new mounting block. Ohh well, hindsight....

I'm still debating the exact "How will I do this" method for making the brass gibs... I can do some sloppy, half assed milling on my lathe. Or, I can break a sweat and just use some files.

I'm leaning towards the latter.... I have used files quite a bit since I am too damn stubborn to just not make something because I didn't have a mill, LOL... so i've gotten handy with them.

I think I can do it with decent accuracy that way. I'll have to wait till i get started on the table cleanup/teardown so I can see exactly what I am working with.

[Dano523]

Ahhh terminus est..... (Place of decision/choice)

Do I break the two halves of the head? .

May as well, since you will be doing it anyway way when you tram the machine.

The column you will be tram'g with the base front to the back (read may have to shim the column support bracket to the base) and side to side. The spindle you will be adjusting/shimming the two parts of the head so the spindle stays square in it full travel as well.

On tram'g, I would start with the column to the base to get it correct with the added column support (yes you want one, even if just the 1/4" plate so you don't end up with chattering cuts) front to back zeroed, then attack the spindle/head. On the spindal, start with front to back with the two head parts tight to see if you need to shim the parts either top to bottom out so your not getting a differences between the head all the way up or down. , then once you figured that out, then work the two parts for cant adjustment, so again, you don't get a difference in spindle center to work piece through the full travel of the head.

Trust me, cleaning up the grease and lapping everything is just the start. Getting everything tram'd/squared (including the spindle) is a whole different/ new exciting ball game.

On mine, I only have to add .002 shims to the front column support bracket to the base to zero front to back between the column and base, and the head two parts didn't need shims, just had to adjust the two halves to clean up side to side for the full range of the head/spindle movement to the work piece.

[TroyO]

I have already broken the head apart and trammed spindle to column.... got within .0005 @ 6" and called it good. I will be double checking it once it's all assembled as well. Actually, if it's out again by the time I get the machine together I probably will forgo the shims (Right now it has 3 layers of thin AL foil at the bottom) and just try some directed lapping to get it in next time..... more work but it should be a permenant fix once it's paralell to the ways. That way all I aill ever have to worrry about is the side to side head/column tram.

I have the parts for the the column brace, just haven't gotten there yet.

UPS says that my LMS package will be here today... YAY! So, hopefully I can bolt up that air spring tonight and the column will be as well set as I can get it for the moment.

Then it will be time to start on the new gibs and table mods.

Speaking of... I think this is my favorite "Split nut" mod, and i will be attempting to follow Chuckkies example.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpo...2&postcount=43

[Dano523]

On the split brass nuts, it is kind of a loosing battle.
You do the mod, only to find that with the remaining amount of tread in the nut after adding the slits, you have to readjust the nut way too many times as the nut wear out quickly. With such, I got the X down to about .003 of play, and on the Y, lets face it, until you bearing mod it, your looking at .004~.005 at best (for only a short period at that before you have to readjust). Really, the best mod I have seen is the Derlin tension nuts, and something with a bit more thread meat would be better yet for the stock screws. It's not that the stock screws blow big time (just kind of big time), it's that the uniformity between the lands and grooves and the surface of the threads is so bad that anything that they are matted up against is going to wear quickly (read ball screws are the way to go).
Note: Someone could do a nice little business making meatier Derilin slit nuts for the stock screws (could see even LMS caring them as a option to the stock brass nuts). The bit item it really the taps to match the stock screws, and once you get into a production run of such as say $20 for a set, you would be seeing a profit in no time (read chewing through a pair every year would still be way cheaper than having to go ball screws, and a huge market since a great deal of people still run standard factory screws).
http://www.fignoggle.com/machines/x2...hNutAcetal.htm

On the crack handles, you will find a great deal of slop between the handle and the key. I ended up installing 6/32 set screw that tighten up the crank to the keys to remove the slop there.



On the stock crank handles, there not that evil, and work even better once you have made end shims. Nothing fancy, just some 416 inserts lathe turned that press fit into the end of the plastic handles with a ID that is .001 larger than the threads on the nut for a better fit. And while you have the handle bolts out, clean up the slotted end as well so the handle will glide against the plastic collar side without snagging.



On the air spring, if you are going to use the machine manually, I have found that with both the spring tension, and the air tension used together, you end up with head spring tension back up, not the head wanting to drop on it's own. With just one of the above alone, the head does want to go drop on it's own, and if don't tighten the head down rock solid while making a pass, the head loves to plunge into the material farther by it's own (how I killed a end mill and took out the plastic gear set). Plus when you go to adjust the head down father for the next pass with just one installed, you have to lower the head down farther then needed, the come back up to the desired new height to maintain fine adjustment screw tension, which is no fun when you are in the middle of a pocket doing cuts. As stated, with both installed, the head tension is upwards, so your further down adjustments as straight forward/simple at the dial down only, and don't have to play the drop the head, then come back up for the needed fine adjustment tension since your increased drop is against the tension of the tension (read if you forget to lock the head jib during cuts, then the head will climb up away from the cut and save you from destructing something as well)



As for the mod to the air kit with the stock spring in place, I have to shorten the top Square bar piece, then use a longer shim and nut for the bottom support inside the column so the air spring cleared the spring cross rod. Instead of just removing the top column cap and leaving it off, I center drilled it and slipped/glued it back in place. Leaving the top of the column open doesn't hurt a thing, it's just if something drops down the void, it can be a none joy day trying to fish it back out.

[knudsen]

LOL been there/done that. Dropped a unique bolt into my column, and spent a good hour with a magnet trying to get it out. Just ready to give up and turn the damned thing over and shake it out, when I finally got the magnet to grab the bolt and got it all the way out without the magnet getting pulled into the column.

[Dano523]

[TroyO]

Hey, now that's an interesting idea... using both the the air spring and the stock torsion spring. I will have to ponder that, LOL.

I did pick up an extra set of thrust bearings from LMS with this order, in hopes of figuring out a way to install them on the Y axis... I'll have to actually get in to it and look at it to determine if I can figure out a way to do so... at first blush it looke pretty doable. I'm thinking/hoping i can use the stock Y axis handle support, if not I have some stock I can try making a custom one from.

I too kept searching for some Delrin upgrade nuts myself, so it could certainly be a seller. What exactly is the stock leadscrew size? I can tell it's 16 TPI from the 62.5 Thou dial.. (Rant mode on: Dumb arsed, bass ackward 62.5 thou per turn.. really? Couldn't go for a nice 10 or 20 TPI? /Rant) I've read somewhere it was 5/8ths... but I don't know how accurate that is.

I've seen Fignoogle's upgrade to Acme W/Delrin, but I don't like the 8 TPI option there. (See above rant, but add in the loss of resoloution and lack of properly marked dials.)

Enco does have some 5/8ths, 10 TPI Acme that is only $62 for 3 feet, which should be enough to make two leadscrews and a Delrin tap. Cobble in some 50 division wheels from LMS and it wouldn't be too bad. It would at least make more sense than 1/8 or 1/16 inch turns.

Anyway.. I have found 5/8 - 16 TPI taps, so it shouldn't be that hard of a thing to do if that's what size it is. Only $22 too.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PARTPG=INLMK32

[TroyO]

I installed the LMS kit tonight... went together pretty easy.

I put 3 layers of aluminum tape under the rack to tighten up the fit... it may have been one layer too far. It's a little coggy and rough. I think I will pull off one layer and see if I like it better. (Or run it up and down a couple dozen times and see if it gets better.... the LMS rack was pretty rough... it may "wear in" pretty quickly. Oddly, the stock one was much better made.)

I'm going to try the double-lift method and see if I like it. I think the stock arm will limit the travel some, but I think I've seen a mod somewhere about changing the bolt location on the head to help that.

If I can't get that to work in a way I like, I may just get a 60# air spring to replace the stock LMS one. (Which is 30#)

[Dano523]

On the Y Bearing block, you will need to make a new block to use the thrust bearing if they are the same as the X block.

About the only bearing that I know that will fit in the stock Y block is 12x18x4 roller bearings since there is not enough meat on the machine side of the block for a large bearing.

If you have found a smaller set of thrust bearing that you can make work on the Y block, then pass it on. I want to thrust bearing my 8x14 lathe cross slide stock block and would use the same size thrust bearings as well.


On the Z fine adjustment, if you tighten up the linkage arm joints and mount the front knob block right, you can remove a great deal of slop , over just getting the back block seated correctly to remove some slop as well.

As for the Derin slotted nuts for the stock screws, no one make them, so when I get some free times on my hands before the slotted brass nuts I have give up the Ghost, I am just going to make myself a set via the mill and lathe (so I can cut the threads without have to buy the tap).

An yes on the 62.5 per turn dials blowing big time. If nothing else, start looking at scales as least, if not a DRO panel as well. If you have to move the handles say a couple of turns or more on a piece (much less find center, including throwing in lash), it does become rocket science kinda.


Good luck on the machine and within any month now, you will have made your first chips.:banana:

Side note, have a lathe and mill both are real handy. If for nothing else, they work great for getting the other machine up to speed when it comes to mods (read you learn to do tacks on either machine when you have one of them down).