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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Benchtop Machines > x2 spindle motor replacement options ?
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  1. #1

    x2 spindle motor replacement options ?

    Just curious as to what guys have done or if its been done to replace the wimpy spindle motors on the x2 mills , I originally thought that the spindle motors were all the same on these things but it turns out that by luck I got the .47 hp motor which appears to be the smallest motor supplied with these machines . Anyhow , with the belt drive from little machineshop the machine is seriously missing any amount of torque . I know that once I get into any serious cutting at high rpm then I will blow a fuse and any tool that happens to be in the spindle at the time . I tried the belt drive a while back and changed back to the stock gear system , but at this point I'm stuck with the belt drive since the machine after its first real use ate its gearing (so glad I bought chinese quality)
    As it stands I've polished the spindle shaft and the bearing seats to cure the chinese version of what a tight fit is , I figured it was necessary to do so after blowing a half dozen fuses trying to get the spindle to turn with the high rpm belt setting , now the spindle turns at high rpm after a warm up on low and seems to be use-able as long as I'm not overly aggressive with my cuts(i think) , I plan to push it to its limits to see where it fails , so I'll have some fun destroying some new carbides
    I'm considering a replacement motor as long as the cost isn't too great , otherwise I'll use and abuse this until there isn't much left then move onto something with some oomph to it .

    has anyone come up with better spindle motor alternatives




    .
    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........

  2. #2
    with some research I've been able answer my own question and found a strong low cost alternative
    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........

  3. #3
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    direct replacements?

  4. #4
    yep
    direct replacements for the supply
    from what I've gathered it will make a large difference in torque and speed , so it should be good , or on the other hand with my limited electronics experience i may end up needing to replace a cooked motor
    one thing that I've noticed is a dramatic change with giving it a 20 minute warm up , the spindle is far less resistant , its #@$ing hot but loose , i may tear into the bearings and repack them at some point
    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dertsap View Post
    with some research I've been able answer my own question and found a strong low cost alternative
    Could you share where we can find the replacement?
    Regards, Carl

  6. #6
    replacement KBLC-19PM (on order)

    put it through a quick test as is and it seems ok , I did a bunch of milling on an aluminum block and it cut pretty well on the outside profiles and internal bore ,
    I started small with a 1/4" 4 flute end mill , 50% engagement with a .05 depth of cut(ramped) , 50ipm at 4500 rpm . I'll test it later with some bigger tools and see what happens , if it holds up as it has then it should be ok , it's certainly nothing to impress with but it may turn out to be ok ,and hopefully much better with the new electronics , it still seems to me that the spindle setup is a joke as is the plastic gearing
    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........

  7. #7
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    Do u have a link to the motor?

  8. #8
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    The spindle isn't a joke!

    Quote Originally Posted by dertsap View Post
    replacement KBLC-19PM (on order)

    put it through a quick test as is and it seems ok , I did a bunch of milling on an aluminum block and it cut pretty well on the outside profiles and internal bore ,
    I started small with a 1/4" 4 flute end mill , 50% engagement with a .05 depth of cut(ramped) , 50ipm at 4500 rpm . I'll test it later with some bigger tools and see what happens , if it holds up as it has then it should be ok , it's certainly nothing to impress with but it may turn out to be ok ,and hopefully much better with the new electronics , it still seems to me that the spindle setup is a joke as is the plastic gearing
    There is nothing wrong with either the spindle nor the gearing if used within their capabilities. If you want to get more out of the unit then the engineering is up to you.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by wizard View Post
    There is nothing wrong with either the spindle nor the gearing if used within their capabilities. If you want to get more out of the unit then the engineering is up to you.
    the very first time that I had used the machine to do some cuts the spindle stalled and broke the end mill , a 1/4" end mill that was taking a .1 depth of cut and 50% engagement . it also destroyed the gearing after i put in a new tool to finish the part , its not as though i was abusing the machine with that size of tool . 45 minutes of cutting time and the gearing is toasted .
    If that is pushing it beyond its capabilities then what are its capabilities ? it is rated to use up to a 5/8 end mill , i don't see how i can expect to use it as is with a 5/8 end mill when a 1/4" can stall the spindle at such a light cut ?
    If this is what i have to expect from the $800 that I spent then it is a joke , its no intention to insult anyone and their happiness with their machine but maybe my disappointment can be understood .
    I do want to get more out of it which is why I originally asked for help , something which i rarely ever do in the forums . In the meantime I was able to do some research and found what I hope will help with doing some re-engineering .
    I'm always open to better suggestions if anyone cares to offer them , otherwise i think that I've found all of the info that i need anyhow
    I will do what it takes for me to be satisfied with the spindle performance and if the new board isn't to my liking then I've found a number of other alternatives . So far everything else is good , so in the meantime it works , and at some point very soon i will get the right spindle setup on it and I'll be happy


    .
    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by nateman_doo View Post
    Do u have a link to the motor?
    heres a link for you , this guy claims to have gotten better performance with the board change KBLC BOARD
    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........

  11. #11
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    There seems to be some glaring errors in the hook up in the link you show.
    No1 they show F+ and F- as the feed to the motor and to reverse it.
    The F terminals are for a field for a wound field motor, if the motor is a P.M. field, then the A+ and A- should be used, also NEVER reverse the armature without using the I1 and I2 reset terminals, this is if the power is permanently connected to the supply as the link shows, as the motor is reversed without going through acel first.
    The KB reverse switches have a detent that not only prevents going from forward to reverse instantly, but also has a reset contact.
    Its all in the documentation.
    I am not sure how he was achieving current limit etc as this works on the armature not the field??
    Al.
    .
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  12. #12
    I believe your correct about the hook up because I've seen where other guys have used the board and they connected to the a+ and a- . the forward / reverse isn't necessary for anything that i do , forward is all that i need .
    heres the board that i bought on ebay eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices , I can't figure out what the difference is between the board that he used and the mod board but this one came with the extra's and it looks pretty straight forward to hook up .
    I hope this will be an improvement because the pulse in the current setup is quite pronounced at all speeds , I don't know if it should be that way but I can hear it pulsing with any amount of cut that its taking at higher speeds , and forget low speed settings because it's bad enough to turn the lights in the workshop into strobe lights
    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........

  13. #13
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    That sounds like an incorrectly assembled mill.

    The point I was making is that the mill is not inherently bad, especially for the price, but in your case it looks like you got a poorly assembled mill right out of the box. That sucks actually. It might have been reasonable to just return the mill. It amounts to buying a new car and having it seize up on the drive home.

    The only difference that I can see is that your local car dealer has the people in place to put a new engine in the car. Most of the machine tool dealers seem to be wanting in their ability to service what they sell.

    Quote Originally Posted by dertsap View Post
    the very first time that I had used the machine to do some cuts the spindle stalled and broke the end mill , a 1/4" end mill that was taking a .1 depth of cut and 50% engagement . it also destroyed the gearing after i put in a new tool to finish the part , its not as though i was abusing the machine with that size of tool . 45 minutes of cutting time and the gearing is toasted .
    If that is pushing it beyond its capabilities then what are its capabilities ? it is rated to use up to a 5/8 end mill , i don't see how i can expect to use it as is with a 5/8 end mill when a 1/4" can stall the spindle at such a light cut ?
    If this is what i have to expect from the $800 that I spent then it is a joke , its no intention to insult anyone and their happiness with their machine but maybe my disappointment can be understood .
    I do want to get more out of it which is why I originally asked for help , something which i rarely ever do in the forums . In the meantime I was able to do some research and found what I hope will help with doing some re-engineering .
    I'm always open to better suggestions if anyone cares to offer them , otherwise i think that I've found all of the info that i need anyhow
    I see that you have a better motor controller, that is a good thing. However you now have the capability to put even more current into the motor, so you want to be careful about how you set up that controller. In the end I would be surprised to find out that you need a new motor too. That isn't a bad thing as the new controller should allow you to drive many makes well.

    The sad part here is your spindle. It still sounds like something isn't right there.
    I will do what it takes for me to be satisfied with the spindle performance and if the new board isn't to my liking then I've found a number of other alternatives . So far everything else is good , so in the meantime it works , and at some point very soon i will get the right spindle setup on it and I'll be happy


    .
    Sounds good! If you are like most of us you will never be 100% happy. Like I said the machines are impressive for the price but they do require a bit of tinkering to keep working well.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by wizard View Post
    It might have been reasonable to just return the mill. .
    it would have been reasonable but I've own it for a year or two (can't remember exactly when I bought it to be honest ) I've had this sitting in wait for me to cnc it , finally got around to doing it .
    With the grinder mods and the tapped holes in various places then I'd get some funny looks from them anyhow if i tried to return it .
    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........

  15. #15
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dertsap View Post
    heres the board that i bought on ebay
    That board looks like the one that fits over the stake on terminals and converts it to terminal strip, also AC line fuses.
    For smoother operation, the KB PWM version rather than SCR type, would be better.
    BTW, you should also use the I1 I2 terminals if you stop the motor by the armature leads instead of input power.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    That board looks like the one that fits over the stake on terminals and converts it to terminal strip, also AC line fuses.
    For smoother operation, the KB PWM version rather than SCR type, would be better.
    BTW, you should also use the I1 I2 terminals if you stop the motor by the armature leads instead of input power.
    Al.
    I thought that with it being complete with the terminal board on top then it would save me a bit of trouble
    if this fails then what kb pmw would you be able to suggest ? I'm no electronics guy , I know enough not to kill myself and am capable of doing by example which is why i decided on this board , a number of guys have used the kblc-120 board but it only puts out 90v
    i don't know what the difference is between the kblc-19 and the kblc-19mod but I've seen stuff over the net where guys have used them and there are a few within the forum that used those boards (mod or not)
    heres one http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht...ply_my_x2.html
    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........

  17. #17
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Depends on what the voltage is of the motor you have, the SCR types cater for 90v or 180vdc motors, the KBIC-240D covers both and the PWM KBWD-16 is the 'Whisper' PWM series.
    KBLC mod is just an add on board to the KBLC-120.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  18. #18
    the motor voltage is 110 , I avoided the KBIC-240D and the KBLC-120 because they'll only put out 90v , the KBLC-19 puts out up to 125v , I figured that I'd be better off with a little extra voltage vs not enough .
    I'll see how this works out and if I'm not satisfied then I'll check out the KBWD-16 , it looks like they're roughly only $100
    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........

  19. #19
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    I see Galco have them for $80.00, thats not bad.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  20. #20
    that isn't bad at all , i just quickly looked at the first site that came up , and came up with $102 , even at that it blows away the $160 to replace a crappy stock board .

    one thing that I'm curious about are treadmill motors . those suckers are at roughly 2 - 2.5 hp and roughly 6000 rpm .
    them motors are 18 amp and 90vdc , which seems to me that they need some pretty decent power , any idea off hand what control a guy would need for a motor like that ?
    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........

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