[tobyaxis]

Saw somewhere that intel plans up to 64 core chips. Is that a way Vista will survive? But why consumers are forced to fund this, that is another question. IMHO ordinary consumer does not decide what to consume anymore.

No they don't, they also don't need WorkStation Capabilities for Office Software.

Only the Engineering and Graphics Intensive Fields need this type of Capability.
IMHO

[Genguy]

It runs ok, sees both processors (though we don't know yet if it'll use both), won't recognized the 3com built-in ethernet ports, doesn't have the drivers in the software....

You would think that they had never developed the existing drivers currently in use.. or that they DON'T want your old hardware to work with the NEW OS.. surely that can't be right.. can it ?

As far as I know, Microsoft does not write any hardware drivers other than for their own branded hardware (mice, keyboards, etc.). The hardware makers write all of the drivers. If they are included on the Microsoft OS cd, they have been WHQL tested with that OS. The testing is done by Microsoft and the hardware builder's have to pay Microsoft a fee to have their drivers certified. If they aren't ready in time for the OS release then they won't get included.

In the case of Tyan's thunder 7, this board is slightly older now and is in Tyan's archives. They might write drivers to support Vista that you can download from Tyan directly. Even if they do provide drivers, I doubt they would expend the money or effort to have them WHQL tested.

[mugabe]

There is article about vista :
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...ista_cost.html

[phantomcow2]

I won't use Vista unless I am in dire need. But XP has been around for a while, it's become a standard for many apps. I doubt that is changing overnight.
I run Fedora Core as well, that is a great program. I just need to keep XP around for the CNC stuff

[Dr_Righteous]

I've been lurking this site for a couple of months, doing research on my own personal CNC project. It was actually an "alternative platform" that lead to my discovery of CNC routers... Namely creating a custom laptop case for a Commodore Amiga 600 or 1200.

That said, I would recomend a serious look at the Amiga Research Operating System (AROS) as a potential development platform for CNC software. AROS is a complete redesign of the Amiga OS, made to run on PC hardware. It's still in development, but has come quite a long way. The ease of use of an Amiga, on modern PC hardware... A sweet combination! :rainfro:

[HayTay]

I've been lurking this site for a couple of months, doing research on my own personal CNC project. It was actually an "alternative platform" that lead to my discovery of CNC routers... Namely creating a custom laptop case for a Commodore Amiga 600 or 1200.

That said, I would recomend a serious look at the Amiga Research Operating System (AROS) as a potential development platform for CNC software. AROS is a complete redesign of the Amiga OS, made to run on PC hardware. It's still in development, but has come quite a long way. The ease of use of an Amiga, on modern PC hardware... A sweet combination! :rainfro:

Cool project, Dr_Righteous. Post some PICs of your case along with your Amiga when you get them.

Have you got some links handy for the AROS project? I usually don't mind doing the searching myself, but, if you've got them handy...

Oh, and a hearty welcome to CNCzone. We're glad you finally 'bit the bullet' and decided to add your thoughts to this forum instead of being just a casual observer.

Thanx,

[fizzissist]

Whoa COOL!!!! If I don't have to pull my VideoToaster out of my Amiga, I could do a Star Trek grade animation of the toolpath!!!

Now....if Newtek has a G-code plugin.... ... and I could talk Kiki into running the mill.....

Long Live the Amiga!!!!

[mar999]

personal note(nuts) i kick it right in the knee (for now ) has lots o problems raid support stinks(for redundant system) im not going for it until it proves otherwise

[Adobe Machine]

Being older than dirt, and having just taught myself CNC systems and CAD (Vector )in the last 2 years, I researched all that I could find about operating systems for CNC machinery and decided that WIN 2000 pro was the best system to operate Desk CNC. I had my computor expert/neighbor strip all of the BS out and kill any MS software that could interfere with the operation of the machines. None of the machines are exposed to the WEB. The machines are extremley fast,and I believe that this is due to no BS in their systems, only having machine related software to open ( Vector CAD/CAM, 3d, Desk CNC, some machine speeds and feeds chart, a "quick engineering" chart, torque chart for fastners,note pad and thats it)

The computor in the home office was an old WIN 95, up graded to WIN XP, but the mother board began to fail, so my neighbor came up with a good deal..If I could get his old 280 ZX running ( they had been trying to start it for 2 years)and he pay for the parts , He would give me a new Dell E 521 with an upgraded hard drive (114 GB total )disk burner,some kinda video and sound card, new screen, keyboard and mouse. He also transfered all programs and data to the new machine. Took about an hour to find the the EFI problem ( bad ground wire ) and after installing new plugs and changing the oil ( which was about 60% gas) and adjusting the valves, that streight 6 flat goes ! A good trade for both of us .

So far the the VISTA system works, I do have Vector CAD/CAM and Desk CNC on it also, the only program that wanted a key number was Ron Hills Lathe Quick program. Jackie at IM machine E mailed to me immediatly, and it works fine.

I'm not an expert, in fact a real KLUTZ with the computor, but have had no problems so far. In fact, due to my limitations I see very little differance in performance..I know that the machine computors open faster, but the new Dell and Vista are a whole lot quicker than the old one..I can see this especially with Vector in 3d mode, the renderings are crisper, faster and a real joy to see in animation..At my age ( and I'm sure there are a lot like me ) just being able to open and use a computor is a good day..Much less trying to learn a system like Linox or others.. and frankley I still get lost and have to concentrate or refer to my crib notes about transferring files etc..

So my vote would be to pay Bill ( in my situation) and go with the program..Life is way to short to hassel with things that you know little about.

Adobe (old as dirt)

[PaulH]

Well, for whatever it's worth, I just read that Microsoft is discontinuing Windows XP effective January 31, 2008. That means all new computers will come with Vista, only.

Mac OS X is looking better by the day...

[daedalus]

Im using vista here with no problems, have had it since the release date, and software availability wasnt too bad this time, especially compared to when xp first came out.

Features wise its just a prettier take on XP, with a lot of the technical bits dumbed down (ie networking, attaching video cameras, usb devices ect). The big change has been a security system that stops unknown software running without the user being prompted. Its meant to stop spyware / trojans etc, but can get rather annoying (and i doubt its effective).

Also it does support DX10 for gaming, and has better support for systems with lots of ram and cpu cores.

The machines im running it on are a quad core intel with 4gb ram, and an athlon 4800+ dual core with 1gb ram, both run quickly enough, and i dont have any outstanding issues with the OS.

The people complaining about it being slower then old operating systems really need to think about the situation. New OS has better graphics, more features, both of which require more processing power to implement. If you can afford a vista ultimate licence you probably can afford to keep your pc reasonably up to date. If you want something that will run your 4 yr old pc lightning fast then look to linux, which really does give old hardware a new lease on life. No previous windows release has been faster on the same hardware then its predecessor (generally speaking).

The biggest complaint with vista is with lazy companies who have been slow to release vista compliant versions of thier products (looking in solidworks direction).

I get free licences of all MS products, so as a free upgrade i would recommend it, but i probably wouldnt spend the licence cost if i already had XP.

PS: RE 64 core intel prototype, it wasnt a fully functional chip, just a demonstrator that they could connect that many cores in a single package. Its a long way off being a product you could sell (cores were nothing more then testing logic).

[ajmoir]

I've been messing with software since I was a lad and professionally since '85. I've coded for Mainframes, Minis, PC Servers, Desktop, embedded etc et al. The one overriding hatred I have is for anything microsoft.

I have two requirements for an OS, one it has to let me access the hardware and two it has to be rock solid. Windows has never and will never fulfill these needs.

The other issue is the dreaded upgrade path. You have to pay for the OS, pay for your apps and then probably buy a new machine! How many times have you paid for word processing functionality? How many more times do you wish to?

I run Linux at home and some serious OSes at work. The only problems I have is when Microsoft turns up on my desk with a dictate from management. If Linux can make it look bad imagine what an OS whose uptime we measure in years makes it look like.

If you're hobbyist do yourself a favour and check out Linux and emc.

[tobyaxis]

Looks like XP is the Favorite here too.

[anoel]

FWIW...

There are a ton of new hardware advantages available that XP /2k cannot take full advantage of... (64BIT processors... for example. Yeah there's a 64 bit version of xp... it sux...) Memory is cheap now... lets take advantage of it...

These are the same cries that were made when XP came out.... When 98 came out... and goodness... when 95 replaced Windows 3.1.1...

MS OSes rule because they deliver the goods... it's not a conspiracy.

Macs are OK... They are very expensive for the average consumer. Total cost of ownership is atrocius.

My IT department can deliver a rock solid solution on Windows platform faster, cheaper, and with fewer people than other platforms including (especially) J2EE. We've tried really hard to adopt J2EE and it's an endless nightmare that keeps getting money thrown at it. Developing cool comsumer software is one thing, but creating solid distributed business software is where the real advantages of the OSes shine. And is where the bottom dollar of an OSes value to the world comes into play.

Group based security for windows environments could not be more robust. And implemented correctly can be as secure as anything ***ix can offer. (While still allowing access)

Software???? Holy cow do we have more great software for Windows than any other OS in the world... Linux, Mac forget about it...

Vista is a good OS, and is not all eye candy... they could have added all the eye candy to XP in a service pack. But the way the eye candy is built on top of core OS enhancements is (read up on GDI+), Windows Work Flow, .NET framework, Aero, Glass. Microsoft really outdid themselves with a fantastic OS. Mac and Linux eye candy is achieved by very different means than in Vista.

I get the pleasure of working directly with MS developers and Consultants... they absolutely bust their asses to make their products work for businesses and end users. I also work directly with IBM and the other big companies(CA, Oracle, HP, SUN, etc...) none of them care as much about the customer or work harder than Microsoft. I see it daily and we are one of the largest customers for each of the afore mentioned companies with several full time on site reps from each. I dread dealing with most of them as they are over paid, snotty pricks. Not MS....

Just a perspective from outside of the bedroom user.

[tobyaxis]

FWIW...

There are a ton of new hardware advantages available that XP /2k cannot take full advantage of... (64BIT processors... for example. Yeah there's a 64 bit version of xp... it sux...) Memory is cheap now... lets take advantage of it...

These are the same cries that were made when XP came out.... When 98 came out... and goodness... when 95 replaced Windows 3.1.1...

MS OSes rule because they deliver the goods... it's not a conspiracy.

Macs are OK... They are very expensive for the average consumer. Total cost of ownership is atrocius.

My IT department can deliver a rock solid solution on Windows platform faster, cheaper, and with fewer people than other platforms including (especially) J2EE. We've tried really hard to adopt J2EE and it's an endless nightmare that keeps getting money thrown at it. Developing cool comsumer software is one thing, but creating solid distributed business software is where the real advantages of the OSes shine. And is where the bottom dollar of an OSes value to the world comes into play.

Group based security for windows environments could not be more robust. And implemented correctly can be as secure as anything ***ix can offer. (While still allowing access)

Software???? Holy cow do we have more great software for Windows than any other OS in the world... Linux, Mac forget about it...

Vista is a good OS, and is not all eye candy... they could have added all the eye candy to XP in a service pack. But the way the eye candy is built on top of core OS enhancements is (read up on GDI+), Windows Work Flow, .NET framework, Aero, Glass. Microsoft really outdid themselves with a fantastic OS. Mac and Linux eye candy is achieved by very different means than in Vista.

I get the pleasure of working directly with MS developers and Consultants... they absolutely bust their asses to make their products work for businesses and end users. I also work directly with IBM and the other big companies(CA, Oracle, HP, SUN, etc...) none of them care as much about the customer or work harder than Microsoft. I see it daily and we are one of the largest customers for each of the afore mentioned companies with several full time on site reps from each. I dread dealing with most of them as they are over paid, snotty pricks. Not MS....

Just a perspective from outside of the bedroom user.

This is nice, but do you use CAD/CAM Software at all? Most of the comments in this thread are from CAD/CAM users that do not have time to mess around with a New Incomplete O/S. We must be able to produce complete parts for all different types of machinery like Aircraft, Ships, Automobiles, and a lot more. Farting around to get your software to work when you have dead lines isn't a good idea for most of us.

Not to mention that Hackers are Targeting Vista due to its incomplete status.

Anyone here that isn't a Computer Software Wizard is going to Complain a little.

Cheers!!!!!!!

[anoel]

This is nice, but do you use CAD/CAM Software at all? Most of the comments in this thread are from CAD/CAM users that do not have time to mess around with a New Incomplete O/S. We must be able to produce complete parts for all different types of machinery like Aircraft, Ships, Automobiles, and a lot more. Farting around to get your software to work when you have dead lines isn't a good idea for most of us.

Until the next version of solid works or master cam requires DirectX 10

Not to mention that Hackers are Targeting Vista due to its incomplete status.

Ummm... hackers target "every" platform. Linux, AIX, HPUX, Linux, Mac, Z-OS, Solaris, AS400... etc. Windows has the largest installed base... Much higher profile target, so you hear about it more... Web site hackers can mostly still use the same hacks from 10 years ago on linux and still get into the systems... no need for new hacks. And not enough Macs to bother with hacking (Though they do get their fair share of attacks, and classic Unix/BSD/Linux exploits are viable against OSX now. )

Anyone here that isn't a Computer Software Wizard is going to Complain a little.

Just remember that New OSes are made to spur progress in the computing industry and leverage new technology. Not to run the same old stuff we've been using. If you are doing the same thing then there is no need to upgrade until you no longer have support.

There are not many apps out yet that take full advantage of Vista. When they do appear as Native Vista apps they will perform as expected.

[yohudi]

I'm still using Windows 98 on my CAD/CAM pc.

.........
It's a pure and utter ripoff and won't work for about 2 years.

By which point they'll have introduced WISTA, YISTA, and ZISTA.........

Hilarious....

Bill Gates will tongue my rectum before I'll use VISTA, WISTA, YISTA. or ZISTA. At least I hope so anway....

[epineh]

Well I for one have been using Linux mainly to try out EMC, and just love it !

I won't be going the Vista path, I am going to use virtual machine software to run Win 98 for my CAD/CAM needs, but for everyday use Ubuntu is awesome, as a regular desktop user (not a complete PC guru) I had no trouble with install, it picked up hardware that XP never did (old wireless card) and runs faster than XP on the same hardware, to estimate about 4 times faster for general use.

I guess the great thing about this world is we have a choice to use what suits us, Linux IMHO was always a little rough around the edges and needed a fair amount of know how, but the latest desktop versions of Ubuntu are very refined, seamless to install and are rock solid.

My 2c.

Russell.

[cyclestart]

FWIW...
Group based security for windows environments could not be more robust. And implemented correctly can be as secure as anything ***ix can offer. (While still allowing access)

That's been my impression also, Check any linux forum and you will find recent windows converts griping about having to use an administrative password for certain tasks or the inability to log into gui as admistrator. Not hard to guess how they were running windows. Disabling these types of security measures is possible in linux but discouraged by design. Microsoft has to take some (not all) blame for making it to convenient for users to run poorly secured systems. The security is there but many people undermine it. My understanding is Vista is a major improvement in this area.

Just the ramblings of a linux-loving desktop user and all-around paranoid.

[djmickyg]

I have it on my laptop but i still use xp on my desktop.
it does have a few nice features..
but you need a top spec pc now to run it at a speed that xp will run at on a pc a few years old..
and alot of programs and drivers down work, which is really anoying..