[dmoore]

This details the EZ-Router system compared to the MechMate. This "review" is somewhat biased since I built a MechMate. By going with the MechMate I got:

• Heavier main beams and support board beams for more stability (turned inward for more room)


• Better motors with better resolution and without exposed gear reduction (3:1 I'm guessing instead of my MechMate's 7.2:1)


• Much better and more professional cable management (they offer cable management for an extra $763)


• Better electronics and eletrical (shield cables , non-mechanical proxies, just one e-Stop, the better 203V Gecko's)


• The same speeds for cutting and jogging with the ability to double the speed for an extra $175 with a SmoothStepper


• More Z (10+" as opposed to 6") with options for ~14" of Z for just a few hundred more (they offer 12" of Z at a cost of $1,800)


• Larger cutting area (100" x 52")


• Better step resolution - .0003 on the MechMate (X, Y, Z), .0005 on the EZ (only applies to X and Y, Z is likely to be ~.0010)


• Better fastners (stainless steel)


• My choice of color - not just Grizzly Green


• Better integrated dust management system (I'll post on this in the near future)


• I could add a second, independent spindle/router for only $575 (excluding the router itself) - not possible on the ez-router due to it's design


• Better finish (electrical connections, hardware, adjustable feet, etc)


• A better understanding of CNC and of my particular machine - I don't need to rely on support that may or may not be there


• I saved ~$7,500 with my MechMate (the 4'x8' ez-router is $11,489 + $763 for cable mangement + $1,800 for extra Z). As to my own time building the machine - I would have had to spend 300+ hours at $25/hour to make up the cost difference. I've spent (building, excluding research) less than 120 hours building the MechMate.

Note the mechanical limit switches without proper cable strain reliefs and the "dangling" y-Car cable hose running through the gantry:


Note the smaller and exposed v-bearings (the pinion gear also doesn't appear to be fully on the track):




Bigger Z stepper with better resolution (note the lack of a geared setup):
http://www.ez-router.com/ProductImag...-alternate.gif

Better spring perch design and shielded cables on the MechMate (the motors do appear to be grounded though):


Geared motors on the MechMate Z asix for better resolution:


I could have even built the 5'x12' ez-router for just about $600 more than a 4'x8' table which they sell for $14,580 (two main beams, additional legs, additional support board beams):

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[Glidergider]

How do the Feed speeds compare?

[lovebugjunkie]

Very nice machine, looks better than some brand name machines that go for three-four times what you spent.

[dmoore]

How do the Feed speeds compare?

In my setup with 7.2:1 geared motors, you can push pretty much anything through at the feeds listed in the post - assuming your spindle/router/bit are up to the task.

[Switcher]

Very nice machine, looks better than some brand name machines that go for three-four times what you spent.

As far as I can tell, all the photos posted so far are photos from the ez-router website.

Those are not mechmate photos.


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[Switcher]

I'm not trying to rip on this thread, but I really don't understand why your slamming ez-router. Ez-router is a business, the whole point of building cnc machines is to make a profit, just the same as any other business.

Mechmate is a DIY machine, no business is involved, your buying the parts at cost to anyone, then your labor is free (you build it).

Let me say that I'm also a member of the MechMate forum, & that I like both machines just the same.

If MechMate only sold complete built cnc machines, & not provide the plans for DIY, how much do you think they would charge for a ready to run machine, I'm thinking it's price would be in the same ballpark as an ez-router of the same size (just my opinion).


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[lovebugjunkie]

As far as I can tell, all the photos posted so far are photos from the ez-router website.

Those are not mechmate photos.


.

Well that answers my comment.

[dmoore]

I'm not trying to rip on this thread, but I really don't understand why your slamming ez-router. Ez-router is a business, the whole point of building cnc machines is to make a profit, just the same as any other business.

Actually the post was a reponse to someone who asked me to build a MechMate for them. The price I provided was close to the price for the EZ router system and I was providing a comparison (they already have a EZ Router).

Gerald, who created the MechMate, intended that people would contract to build the MechMate - something I am open to doing. That makes the MechMate just like any other commerical unit.

If MechMate only sold complete built cnc machines, & not provide the plans for DIY, how much do you think they would charge for a ready to run machine, I'm thinking it's price would be in the same ballpark as an ez-router of the same size (just my opinion).

The 4'x8' EZ Router is $14,052 - I can provide the same for $10,900 - with better features, better resolution, better electronics, etc.

[Jason Marsha]

Good comparison dmoore. If possible post some pics of a mechmate so that users who are not sure can see what it looks like.

Jason

[cabnet636]

a lot of time studying the fixin's and doins of many machines, as i am real interested in the value of them. i am not quite sure why you posted this, even with an answer that was not asked on the forum. my hope is that you will find a way to market your machine!! jim

[Gerald_D]

Gerald, who created the MechMate, intended that people would contract to build the MechMate - something I am open to doing. That makes the MechMate just like any other commerical unit.

I never had the intention "that people would contract to build the MechMate".

After "upgrading" our ShopBot to the point that it no longer was a readily recognisable ShopBot, some folk asked me to share my drawings, and it all snowballed from there. I always had resistance to some factory making a profit on the plans I put out for free, and I get everyone to agree to make single builds only. Knowing that I couldn't really stop multiple builds, I asked people to check with me first, and suggested a small licence fee based on profit or turnover. (Nobody has paid anything to date). Anyway, to cut a long story short, I am still wary of folk who want to build multiple units - payment isn't my biggest concern, but the adherence to quality and spec is more important. I do want folk to feel that they have built a "true" MechMate, and I do want to create a brand awareness which will give a good resale market price.

I also don't like the "dollar" comparison to mass-produced, commercial routers like E-Z router and ShopBot - oranges and apples . . . . .

[dmoore]

I never had the intention "that people would contract to build the MechMate".

I was thrown off by this post. Sorry if I was wrong:

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showt...03&postcount=5

"I think it would be reasonable if I asked for 2.5% of sale price, or 5% of profit, whichever the higher, as a "licence fee"?

James, I know of 4 MechMates which are definitely running. I have received reports of 2 companies (South & Central America) offering them for sale. Companies like that can't keep it hidden for long, and I am hoping that they will learn to work through this web site for the small licence fee."

[Gerald_D]

That quote was about a year ago. It would seem that nearer to a 100 machines have been built all over the show by now, but no re-seller is making a roaring profit. Start-up companies are not getting the same huge vendor discounts that ShopBot & E-Z Router are able to command.

I a dreaming of the day that one of the big boys (Thermwood, Multicam, etc) make me an offer for the full rights to the website and source data . . . . . .

Anyway, commercialising the MechMate is all pie-in-the-sky dreams, I have no firm ideas about this. For now it is a hobby only.

[jcoats]

Minor update: mechmate.com is still around and providing great support. Gerald_D is no longer running the web site, he sold it. But he is still active.

Over a year ago I asked Gerald what it would take to be able to sell his machines, he basically wanted a small license fee (3 to 5% of the retail price), per unit sold. Times have changed and so possibly has his mind, but that was the story at the time. But discuss it with them in private messages if you are interested.

It is still a machine that is in the high-end hobby class, or low to mid commercial use machine. It is great IMHO, and still on my 'todo' agenda.
Folks have built it 'bigger' and 'smaller' and 'taller' in various ways, from mainly steel, some have wood in them, and who knows what else.

If you want to see the plans, you must agree to their license agreement, then the entire web site, and plan downloads, are available to you. But remember, you are bound by the agreement. I suggest you read it, it isn't to long or unreasonable IMHO. ... New information: The new owner of MechMate.com is now charging a fee for the 130 pages or so of PDFs of the plans. Thank you Gerald_D for bringing that to my attention. For Gerald_D's plans, this still seems to be a reasonable offer to me, but everyone must make their own decision on that. I am personally disappointed that the change was made to require payment for the plans, but I can understand the position of the new owner as well.

Currently (I just looked on the official list) there are 82 confirmed builds but only 66 have requested serial numbers according to the MM Build Log. But it seems another one or two per month get added to the list.

The shortest reported build was 3 weeks, but the average is 7.4 months, and it seems there are MM all over the world. Occasionally one is posted for sale, but they don't usually stay that way long. A cheap build is around $3K, typical is about $8K to $9K US$, and some spend much more.

There is still no official BOM for the MM. The reasoning is, whether you agree or not, you need to pour over the plans, and see what build options are right for you. It will change some of the items you need, and this way you can customize it to what YOU want or to materials you can find. I find the plans to be initially intimidating (for a software geek to understand) but it didn't take long for it to all make sense to me. Making your 'personal BOM' will help you understand what you are building and if you make changes, then they are your changes to make. This is how many of the evolutionary refinements seem to have come about... folks trying stuff and reporting it back to the community. Some where added to the 'base plans' over time.

One suggestion is to, if you decide to build, print two sets of plans. One to use in the shop, and one to keep for 'reference' to the actual plan set you decided to build from. This way if the community 'changes things', you can still go on with your build without issue.

There are various vendors that will sell the laser cut and precision bent steel parts. In the 48 contiguous US states I think they run about $500, but you still have lots more to buy, steel, gears, rack, bolts, electronics/motors and more, but the laser cut pieces seem to help make it more easily constructed. Suppliers are listed on the Mechmate.com forums and seem to be responsive.

... I have no ties to MechMate other than a happy reader and hopefully one day a builder. ... Just like my support of CNCZone.

[Gerald_D]

I think that Mike is charging a fee for the plans these days.

[kb18951452]

...I always had resistance to some factory making a profit on the plans I put out for free...

I think that Mike is charging a fee for the plans these days.

I want to know if the paid plans are different that the plans that are now hosted all over the place. They appear to be the same ones i downloaded several years ago. I don't know what the plans for sale contain, but i would guess its all the improvements and modification, or options that have been developed since the original plans were published. Its a basic rule that you never begin charging for what was once free. Newspapers are having a hard time of that trying to begin charging on their websites for what has been free for a long time. I guess the point for the newspapers is they are providing new content every day. Seems that once there was a charge for the plan, the started getting hosted all over the net for free. And you can bet its because they now cost a fee.

Do the plans for sale on the mechmate site contain new content not in the old plans? If so, What is there?

Also, i am pretty sure there is a BOM available (i think its in this forum), At least it has a good place to start with making your own personal one.

[jcoats]

When Gerald was running MechMate, there was NOT a BOM available, on purpose.

His idea was that if you REALLY wanted one, due to the choices you have to make (size, motors, etc), you really need to go through the plans in fine detail so you both understand the machine and 'what you are getting into' before you start.

Some people didn't like that, but it was his plans and his site. Kind of like the 'Golden Rule' ... the one with the gold makes the rule.

[kb18951452]

I agree with that. Starting with a BOM and a Credit card is a bad bad idea.

But, starting with a BOM, and the plans, Thats a good idea. Look over the plans, think about what you want. then use the BOM as a shopping list after the decisions have been made.

But I think that its a terrible idea to use a BO of a shopping list without the price of "research" being paid. For a DIY project, its a bad idea to cheat, and just start buying things without really getting to KNOW a project. Its the time spent researching that gets you intimately tuned with the plans, and helps you make things better as you move forward.

[dmoore]

I want to know if the paid plans are different that the plans that are now hosted all over the place. They appear to be the same ones i downloaded several years ago. I don't know what the plans for sale contain, but i would guess its all the improvements and modification, or options that have been developed since the original plans were published. Its a basic rule that you never begin charging for what was once free. Newspapers are having a hard time of that trying to begin charging on their websites for what has been free for a long time. I guess the point for the newspapers is they are providing new content every day. Seems that once there was a charge for the plan, the started getting hosted all over the net for free. And you can bet its because they now cost a fee.

Do the plans for sale on the mechmate site contain new content not in the old plans? If so, What is there?

Also, i am pretty sure there is a BOM available (i think its in this forum), At least it has a good place to start with making your own personal one.

I've built a "number" of Mechmate machines and during each build I looked at what I though could be improved and I only came up with these changes based on the "old" plans from 2008/2009:

* 1030455PB (Y-car Vertical Support Bracket)
- Enlarge Rear Hole on top and bottom for mounting 1/2" bolt for dust collector
- Cut Circle/Oval in rear and front of bracket for passing wires through
- Delete two smaller ovals

* 1030422PD (Y-Car Outer Shell)
- Enlarge to .1875" (3/16") material
- Merge Y-car bracket into shell (now thicker) and remove existing bolt holes
- Enlarge Proxy hole to 1.0" and add hole for proxy wire entrance
- Remove hole in front corner
- Remove front facing tab
- Add hole for Z-Zero Setter (need size)
- Incorporate the Z-Spring Pirch into the shell (1040386SA (Z-Spring Anchor Point)
- Move holes for router power cable closer to center (about where the second oval in the vertical stand is)

* 1060215PA (X-Shelf Brackets)
- Reduce material to 3/16" material from 1/4"
- Two 30mm holes in landing bracket with room for grommets

* 1060315PA (Y-Shelf Brackets)
- Remove second bolt hole

* 1020457PA (Stiffening Closure for cable shelf)
- Open up oval larger for easer cable routing

* 1030450PF (Car Carrier Plate)
- Enlarge Holes for pivot point to 7/16 (.4375+)

* 1020452PA/1020451PA (Far/Near Carrier Plate - Gantry Support)
- Enlarge hole for proxy sensor viewing
- Cut hole for Emergency stop
- Enlarge Holes for pivot point to 7/16 (.4375+)

* M130332 (Y-Car Swing Plate)
- Enlarge hole to 20.1mm

* 1040372PA (Upper Z Strut Bracket)
- Add extra length to the end of the mount for the shock for attaching zip tie

Most of the "corrections" listed above deal with adjustments for imperial fasteners and some of my own personal improvements in the design. In general I found the Mechmate plans to be pretty well designed considering it is metric/imperial and designed to meet the needs of many different users.

I have a *very* extensive BOM that goes down to every single nut, bolt, feet of wire, steel, electronics, etc. On the first page of the spreadsheet it asks for the overall size, motor types, gearing, controller, vacuum table requirements, router/spindle, etc and then it spits out a completely custom BOM with steel lengths (including a cut sheet and drilling schedule), long long each wire needs to be, max resolution/speeds, final table weight, etc. It also has all the Mach3 settings, wiring diagrams, etc.

If you'd like me to spit out a custom BOM from it, just let me know. Just be aware that it's designed around the way I've built my versions.

[jcoats]

Actually, IMHO, getting a 'bootleg' set of plans to see if you want to really build one is reasonable, but if you use the MechMate forum, you agree to not release the plans (making internet copies 'bootleg', IMHO).

So if you decide to build one, please join the MechMate forum and pay the token $100 (yes, it is token by the time you get it built!), get the 'official plans', and consider purchasing from Mike (the guy who owns the site and plans now) the laser cut and bent set of 'hard to make' parts.

With those, some V-bearings, rack, more steel and a welder and a angle grinder with abrasives., you will well along the way to build the rig! A power hacksaw would help too, but not required.

They do suggest getting your electronics/motors first and set up a 'kitchen table' setup so you can make sure it all works, before building. But it is still up to you.

Also, once you join the forum, you can check the spreadsheet of completions and hopefully find one near enough so you can go check out someone elses build.

MechMates are also 'customized' by many people. Different motors, using belts or chain rather than rack and pinion, sizes (wider/longer/narrow/dept/etc).

The base plans Gerald did are awesome and if they have been modified since, I am sure they have tried to keep up the high standards. The plans have many customization options built in. I am sure you won't be disappointed.

Again, just my thoughts. YMMV.