[Spinnetti]

Hi all.

I'm considering a face mill as I'd like a tts indexable tool (vs. a fly cutter which I have), but the Tormach one seems pretty expensive considering its probably just a chinese one. Are they a standard size so I could get a different brand, but use the TTS holder? Any recommendations? I guess I could use a fly cutter, but would rather have something repeatable. Admittedly, I have very little experience here, but this is for aluminum - Thinking something like this? http://www.shars.com/products/view/7...ace_Shell_Mill

TIA...

[GLCarlson]

The 2.5 inch five cutter from Glacern, but get a 3/4 arbor. Takes the same insert the Tormach flycutter does. 99 bucks.

http://www.glacern.com/fm45

2.5 inches is a little big for the Tormach according to some comments here, but works fine for me- it just hums. I actually have the R8 integral arbor, which may be a bit stiffer than a 3/4 one, so bear in mind I'm extrapolating.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

You won't go wrong with Glacern - they are really first-rate. Plenty of people are also happy with the ones from Shars. And facemill with a 3/4" straight shank can be used with TTS. I'd recommend a 45-degree facemill for aluminum - they leave a gorgeous finish. The facemill itself is fairly cheap, it's the inserts that are expensive.

Regards,
Ray L.

[jid2]

I'm using the 2.5" 45 degree facemill from Shars, with the straight shank 3/4" arbor. I had to cut down the shank and add a small chamfer. Cut great.

[MetalZilla]

I use a 3.0" Iscar purchased from US Shop Tools. Works great and the inserts were reasonbly priced.

[Spinnetti]

Thanks for the feedback... A 1.5" one would be big enough for 99% of what I need, but how to pick rake angle, insert type etc? I prefer a 90 degree cutter as I have plenty of shoulder cuts. Is the 3 cutter one I mentioned ok? I like the Glacern one, but maybe over kill as well as $200 with shell and arbor.....

[SCzEngrgGroup]

For occasional use, the kind you linked to will work OK. You might also consider the 2" one from cdcotools.com - it's functionally identical, and cheaper, due to the integral shank, and included inserts. Not sure the Shars one includes inserts. I've had the CDCO one for years. These will not cut quite as nicely as 45-degree face-mills, and are noisier, and take more power. But well within the capabilities of a Tormach.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Spinnetti]

For occasional use, the kind you linked to will work OK. You might also consider the 2" one from cdcotools.com - it's functionally identical, and cheaper, due to the integral shank, and included inserts. Not sure the Shars one includes inserts. I've had the CDCO one for years. These will not cut quite as nicely as 45-degree face-mills, and are noisier, and take more power. But well within the capabilities of a Tormach.

Regards,
Ray L.

For my limited and occasional needs, that looks perfect if you think it will make a decent finish on aluminum... thanks for the tip.

[TXFred]

I'm considering a face mill as I'd like a tts indexable tool (vs. a fly cutter which I have), but the Tormach one seems pretty expensive considering its probably just a chinese one.

I have the Tormach face mill. It's very high quality, and I'm pleased with it. It uses 4 inserts, and the inserts' installed height is within 0.001" of each other.

It doesn't make it any cheaper, but it is a very well made tool.

Frederic

[twocik]

I use both the Tormach FM90 and GMT FM45, both work amazingly. Here's the converted GMT 2.5" FM45 using a Shars 3/4" straight shank.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormac..._fm45_tts.html

[Steve Seebold]

I think if the guys at Tormach thought a 2 1/2 inch cutter was ok to use, they would probably offer one.

I'm afraid you guys with your 2 1/2 and 3 inch face mills are going to knock the spindle bearings out of your machines if you push them too hard.

Just remember, you gotta save a lot of minutes to equal the $600.00 it's going to cost for a new spindle.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

There is ZERO chance of a face mill doing any damage whatsoever to spindle bearings. The spindle load running a face mill is quite low, unless you get really crazy aggressive. Even then the bearing load is FAR below the bearings capabilities, and no worse that they'd see doing heavy roughing.

Regards,
Ray L.

[TiagoSantos]

Not having that much experience with face mills, I think the biggest problem you might run into is possibly stalling the spindle.. I believe Tormach might have other reasons for not offering it - such as they don't really have to stock and sell everything under the sun

[SCzEngrgGroup]

If we're going to assume Tormach doesn't sell large face mills because they will damage the machine, I sure hope you guys are not using drill bits, because I don't think Tormach sells them either.

The fact is, the Tormach machines are VERY well built, and VERY strong. They are not made of glass, and are NOT easily damaged, and do not need to be "babied" for fear of breaking them. The odds of damaging the machine by simply using it, without VERY significantly abusing it, are about zero. The spindle bearings, in particular, are VERY lightly loaded, as compared to their actual load-bearing capacity, that it would be virtually impossible to damage them, without subjecting them to outright abuse, like repeated hammering on the spindle or drawbar. NO tool can put enough stress on the spindle, or bearings, to do any damage whatsoever. The spindle will stall, and the tool itself will break LONG before the bearings see any potentially harmful load. Even crashing the tool at full speed into a vise is *extremely* unlikely to do any harm at all, other than to the tool and the vise.

Regards,
Ray L.

[dbrija]

I'm using the 2.5" 45 degree facemill from Shars, with the straight shank 3/4" arbor. I had to cut down the shank and add a small chamfer. Cut great.

Put it back in the lathe, and relieve the face that contacts the spindle.... TTS compatible. I did that in about 2 minutes, no problems at all. No need for a TTS adapter.

+10 on that Glacern 2.5" facemill. Love mine....

[Steve Seebold]

There is ZERO chance of a face mill doing any damage whatsoever to spindle bearings. The spindle load running a face mill is quite low, unless you get really crazy aggressive. Even then the bearing load is FAR below the bearings capabilities, and no worse that they'd see doing heavy roughing.

Regards,
Ray L.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one, Ray. Though I haven't seen the spindle bearings damaged on a Tormach, YET, I have seen them damaged on a Bridgeport type mill.

[BAMCNC.COM]

I have the Tormach face mill. It's very high quality, and I'm pleased with it. It uses 4 inserts, and the inserts' installed height is within 0.001" of each other.

It doesn't make it any cheaper, but it is a very well made tool.

Frederic

I have the same, and mix in their "aluminium" inserts, its a dream

[Sp-4renegade]

Well if anyone wonders what a 2-7/8" with 4 CNMG incerts useing the odd duck edges can do at 5000 rpms at 110" per min .030 depth of cut. Check YouTube "Tormach 1100 RPM Machine tooling". In alum. Only dropped 20 rpms during cut. Poor vid sorry, but when you have an adapter from 3/4" to a 1" shank cutter and spinning at 5 grand on a new machine well one tends to worry. I did have 1/2 steel plate as a precaution. Well I machined the adapter and the cutter, not everything I do works.

[mrquacker]

If we're going to assume Tormach doesn't sell large face mills because they will damage the machine, I sure hope you guys are not using drill bits, because I don't think Tormach sells them either.

The fact is, the Tormach machines are VERY well built, and VERY strong. They are not made of glass, and are NOT easily damaged, and do not need to be "babied" for fear of breaking them. The odds of damaging the machine by simply using it, without VERY significantly abusing it, are about zero. The spindle bearings, in particular, are VERY lightly loaded, as compared to their actual load-bearing capacity, that it would be virtually impossible to damage them, without subjecting them to outright abuse, like repeated hammering on the spindle or drawbar. NO tool can put enough stress on the spindle, or bearings, to do any damage whatsoever. The spindle will stall, and the tool itself will break LONG before the bearings see any potentially harmful load. Even crashing the tool at full speed into a vise is *extremely* unlikely to do any harm at all, other than to the tool and the vise.

Regards,
Ray L.

So how tough are we talking about here? Can I "safely" snap 1/2 or 3/4 carbide endmills?
Doesnt "crashing" the machine do damage to the servos, ball/screws, alignments, etc? What exactly is happening inside/to the machine when something like a stall or crash happens? At the 500lbs+ of force the machine puts out, I just find it hard to believe that it cant damage itself.
It's also why I baby my 770 and never fully trust the numbers gwizard gives for high power cuts (0.7+hp). Better safe than sorry :P

[SCzEngrgGroup]

So how tough are we talking about here? Can I "safely" snap 1/2 or 3/4 carbide endmills?
Doesnt "crashing" the machine do damage to the servos, ball/screws, alignments, etc? What exactly is happening inside/to the machine when something like a stall or crash happens? At the 500lbs+ of force the machine puts out, I just find it hard to believe that it cant damage itself.
It's also why I baby my 770 and never fully trust the numbers gwizard gives for high power cuts (0.7+hp). Better safe than sorry :P

It would be very difficult, if not impossible to damage the machine with a tool crash. You won't hit anywhere near 500# - the tool will break LONG before. The only thing I'd be at all concerned about would be jamming the spindle itself into a vise, or other fixed object, at full rapid speed. And it would take some real stupidity on the operators part to do that. During cutting moves, you're never going to generate enough force to hurt anything. I've got a whole box of broken endmills, and never did any more than knock the head out of tram.

The ballscrews, nuts, and bearings are capable of sustained operation, for YEARS, at levers FAR above the maximum load they'll ever see on these machines.

"Baby" your machine if you like, but you're not getting the most out of it. Whether you believe it or not, if you set the spindle speed and power limits appropriately to the machine, the feeds and speeds GWizard produces DO work extremely well, and will not do any harm to the machine.

Regards,
Ray L.