[saabaero]

When I first received my PCNC 1100 I realized that the single coolant nozzle often got blocked by clamps and part features so I created a manifold and added 3 nozzles that I could point from various angles. This necessitated going to smaller nozzles so I could maintain some pressure at the nozzles. Overall, I was not impressed with the systems ability to flush away chips as the flow and pressure from each nozzle was marginal. Also, I use a sink sprayer to wash down the table and coolant tray after machining and the flow and pressure was just barely enough to move the chips.



So I decided to upgrade the coolant pump and tank to twice the horsepower and twice the resevoir capacity. Surprisingly, this did little for the flow and its ability to flush away chips. In looking at larger coolant pumps I noticed that prices got exorbitant with each larger horspower increment. So while I was in Home Depot one day I noticed a 1/2 horsepower shallow well pump that was reasonably priced $175.00 and decided to try it. It is capable of 80 psi and up to 660 gallon per hour flow. I needed to make a couple of minor modifications along with changing the 3 nozzles from 1/8 in. diameter to 1/4 in. diameter each. After a couple hours I got it working and have to say I am truley amazed! I actually have to throttle back the flow some (without having a full enclosure) but still flushes chips away remarkably well. The sink spray works as if it were connected to my home water system.

So far I have been using the pump for about 3 weeks now and have been thrilled with the result. The only issue I had was that there is now more coolant up in the pan at one time so I needed more coolant capacity in the resevoir to be on the safe side. So I purchased a 25 gallon rubbermaid storage container, and doubled the return lines. Now all I need is a full enclosure!

I will post some thotos when I get time if anyone is interested.

[pete from TN]

I am using a dual nozzly 1/4 inch setup on my RF45CNC mill and I have a rubbermaid container for a resorvoir with a homebuilt chip and crud catcher that fits in the top of it. I have been thru two different pond pumps and neither of them is adequate for the pressure I desired at the nozzles. I have an inline ball valve to regulate flow and even wide open it is less than I wanted. I am right now looking at the Harbor Freight submersible pumps that go around $50.00 to replace the one I have. I will probably go with using the old one on my heavily modified 5x7 bandsaw.... Could you post some pics or a video of your setup actually running with the coolant on? I have built a complete enclosure for my machine and I gotta say it is REALLY necessary when you start flinging the chips around. That manifold you made looks pretty cool and I wonder if you are not a little limited by the diameter of the manifold itself... I know mine is setup kinda like that and even tho mine is mostly surgical type tubing it limits the possible flow. I had it down to one nozzle with a larger orifice and it worked a bit better but suffered from the same issue you already addressed, getting near clamps and when the cutter is moving toward the flow the chips bunch up behind the cutter so I think a multiple nozzle setup is ideal. I have now gone to one on each side and if I can get the pressure where I want it should be excellent at removing the chips... Peace

Pete

[saabaero]

Pete,

I was thinking the same thing that my manifold may now be limiting me but without a full enclosure I have to restrict the flow some anyway. I am thinking of building a full enclosure next so I'm sure replacing the manifold will become higher on the list of priorities soon after. I can probably eliminate the individual valves also as I used them to increase the pressure to one or two nozzles in certain situations where I had good access with fewer nozzles.

This is the pump I used:
Flotec 1/2 HP Shallow-Well Jet Pump
Model # FP4012
Internet # 100140720
Store SKU # 294713
$171.00 /EA-Each


The previous coolant pump that didn't work out was rated at 1/8 hp which was twice the original 1/16 hp. It appears that having higher pressure is more important then just high volume.

[dkaustin]

I have also gone the rubbermaid/dual nozzle route and upgraded to a 1/4 HP pump and have been happy with the result.

One issue to be aware of when going to a more powerful pump is the current draw thru the pump control circuitry on the Machine Control Board. My PCNC as it came from the factory had a 4A fuse that blew pretty quickly when I ran the 1/4HP pump. When I replaced the fuse, I lifted a small piece of electrical tape that was stuck to the circuit board next to the fuse holder and read "8A Max."

I think Tormach has backed off from that "8A Max" because of issues with contactor life. I'm running a 6A slo-blo fuse and have had no further problems, but I think Tormach would advise against going any higher.

[pete from TN]

A CNC4PC C11g board and it has an on board relay that I think goes up to like 10 amps or something like that. Gonna have to get that bigger pump and give it a shot. peace

Pete

[bevinp]

I also wish to upgrade my flood coolant and am trying to get a new pump with a longer extension. The local pump manufacturers unfortunately don't make coolant pumps and would not recommend their water pumps for coolant because of the plastic components they had in their cheaper "domestic" pumps.

I guess it depends on the coolant, but has anyone experienced plastic failures/leaks putting coolant through water pumps?

And Saabaero, how did you connect the additional 25 gallon container into the system?

Bevin

[saabaero]

Two of the modifications I made were to add a higher current (ice cube) relay that is activated by the CNC relay and the other was to disable the pressure switch on the pump because at higher pressures the pump would cycle on and off. I machined the pipe flanges out of aluminum for the hose connections to the resevior. I still have some clean up to do of the wiring and hoses. I want to cut a hole in the rear panel so the return lines exit the rear of the machine and lengthen the hoses so I can slide the resevoir from the machine if need be. Attached are some quick photos of the new system. The pressure reading is in psi with the nozzles closed. With the valve closed down as I have been running it the pressure runs around 60 psi and 40 psi with the nozzles wide open. The pump housing is fiberglass reinforced plastic which is normally pretty chemical resistant. I've been operating it 3 weeks now and absolutely no signs of problems.

[pete from TN]

If I were you unless you run the machine a lot every day I would look into getting a bubbler for a fish tank to kinda aerate the coolant and also like I did cut some larger holes into the lid and cover them with some sort of filter to keep crud out so that the coolant can breathe. It helps to keep the coolant from getting bacteria building up in it. I have recently changed coolant from cool mist to something my friend uses in his shop and it has been much better at staying free of crud for awhile now. All I need now is to get the larger pump in there and I should be golden. Nice setup and really like the looks of those flanges you made. I am assuming some O-ring seals on each side and threadmilled on the Tormach right!! peace

Pete

[saabaero]

pete,

Good point about the bacteria growth. With previous coolants I had that problem but my new coolant (Trim 275) is synthetic and I haven't seen that issue with it.

Actually, I didn't need any o-rings or gaskets. I have inner and outer flange plates that screw together and clamp on the plastic resevoir material which acts as the gasket. The inner flanges have blind threaded holes for the screws so they can't leak.

[pete from TN]

That is kinda what I figured but I would not have thought that the material would be a good gasket material. I have tried to use some of that textured rubber in another application and it wound up leaking despite some pretty high torque on the bolts. That material looks to be the smooth type. I am impressed with your designs and like how you are nice and neat with your tubing and wiring setups. It shows that you know what you are doing and that you care about how it not only works but also how it looks. I have looked at videos of VMC's ad nauseum on the internet and tried to find the best coolant nozzle setups and it seems that a lot of guys like to use a higher flowing system yet use a nozzle that is more of a fan than a point and that seems to really evacuate the chips a little better. My setup is lacking the pressure currently for my desires but I intend to remedy that soon. I also bought some of the loc line nozzles that are more of the fan type and I am gonna see how they work with the new pump. The lower pressure I am currently running forces me to use nozzles that are smaller to concentrate the available flow which makes it more important to get it aimed properly. The larger flow and fan setup seems like it would be less picky about how it is aimed at the cutter tip. I have currently one on each side of the head and that seems to work okay but could be better as I said with more flow.. nice work and again, thanks for posting the pictures.... A small request tho, would you mind showing your tooling plate and table seutp as I caught a glimpse of it in another thread. I am working on the threading of the plate with the new TTS tension and compression head I bought and it is really working well so now I am at least equipped to be able to drill and tap a surface plate setup on the mill. SOme pics of yours and perhaps some tips about it would be super helpful... peace


Pete

[chrisforever]

the picture look nice saabaero :wee:

[bevinp]

Saab,
Are you still using the original tank?
And is the black box on the side of the stand part of the pump installation (pressure switch?)?
Bevin

[saabaero]

bevinp,

No I am not using the original tank anymore. The new container is 25 gallons and is more than enough. I'd like to mentionj that I did weld another outlet tube to the catch tray in the machine to double the return volume to the tank.

I believe the black box you are referring to is my automatic lubricator for the machine which I added a while back.

There is a small box on the side of the pump that contains the pressure switch but I disconnected it because at the higher pressures the pump would cycle on and off. I just use the box as a junction box for the wiring and the pump runs continuous.

Another thing I noticed with this pump is that when the coolant turns on it starts to flow at full volume almost imediately. The original pump took a couple of seconds to establish full flow.

[David Bord]

Really nice work man!! Very creative engineering and parts sourcing there!

David

[bevinp]

Saab,
Does the pump protest when you close both coolant taps? Or don't you do that?
I neat idea to put the pump at the rear of the stand.
How high above the floor of the tank did you put the outlet, and did you put any mesh over the outlet to prevent any chips entering the pump?
Bevin

[saabaero]

Does the pump protest when you close both coolant taps? Or don't you do that?

No it doesn't. It supplies 80 psi very smoothly. That being said, the instructions warn against blocking the outlet as a safety concern. Over time steam can build up from lack of cooling flow and possibly cause personal injury. I have had the outlet completely closed for a couple minutes at a time to measure pressure and inspect for leaks without any signs of a problem. Nevertheless, there really isn't any need to have the outlet blocked completely except maybe when the sink sprayer is connected. Again, I haven't experienced any problems when it is connected to the sprayer as the longest time it is closed completely is under a minute or two.

How high above the floor of the tank did you put the outlet, and did you put any mesh over the outlet to prevent any chips entering the pump?

The height above the tank really matter as long as it is small. The higher the lift of the inlet the lower the outlet pressure would but were talking numerous feet to make a difference. Aside from allowing me some extra hose to move the tank if necessary, I have an upward "U" bend between the tank and pump inlet to insure the pump always has a prime.

I use the screen in the stand coolant drain opening to catch most chips. I did surround the pickup in the tank with an inverted plastic pail with holes in it to deflect the coolant returned to the tank from the tank outlet. The holes in the pail are slightly above the bottom of the tank so that fine particles can settle out and not get recirculated.