[ViperTX]

Skippy, I believe if you'll recall the Japanese started selling stuff in the US after WWII, it was crap, but inexpensive....some people bought it but most continued to buy US made goods....the Japanese improved the quality of their products and soon everyone was buying them...cheaper and higher quality then the US products.....now flush with cash they started buying US properties....and there was a push to prevent these purchases....in the early 90's Japan started having it's problems and since the US properties were losing value they sold them back to US investors at a loss....do you recall all that.....well it's being repeated with China....

[sbrpollock]

I Don't Think This Problem Is Caused By The Government Or By The Business sector. Nor Can It Be Solved By The Government Or Business Sector.

This Is The Fault Of The American Buying Public And No-One Elses. The American People Are Making Their Choices.

[Ken_Shea]

This Is The Fault Of The American Buying Public And No-One Elses. The American People Are Making Their Choices.

I don't believe it, someone actually knows who's fault this is !!!!!!

Yep, that's right look into any mirror and there is the guilty party.

I might also add the American workers, no you say ? why then do some actually get paid a bonus for just showing up for work ?
Think this happens in China ????, I don't think so.
60 hours work at time and a half or double time in China ??? I don't think so!
2 months vacation in China ??? I don't think so
Work while you drink in China ??? I don't think so!!
Over half failed a drug test here in my county, in China??? I don't think so!!!

40 hours pay for 20 hours work in China??? I don't think so!

Please note:
I am not making a blanket statement here, some of us do work and work hard, but not everyone........you can be sure of that.

We have stood up and begged for this for decades, and now we got it

[unterhaus]

The last woodworking tools made in the U.S. are probably about to go overseas now that delta bought porter cable. When that happens, I'm going to start buying the best tool for the money no matter what the country of origin. And if the MBA's that run Dewalt and Delta are reading, that probably means they are out of luck.

As far as cars go, the toyota trucks and many Hondas are made in the U.S., whereas a lot of the so-called American brands are made in Canada, because health care costs are cheaper. Personally, I don't care which country's management is making money, I care about the factory workers. The management of Ford and GM are some of the worst in the industry. In fact, I bought GM stock on a gamble, because I figured they were so bad they could only get better. Unfortunately I underestimated the stupidity of the American MBA to the tune of $3000. I have a Ford and a GM, purchased to some degree against my best interests because they were American. I'm reluctant to change that philosophy, but right now they are out of sync with the market, and I'm not going to screw myself too badly. I'm buying used from now on anyway.

[murphy625]

Umm.. When it comes to buying tools, tv's and clothing or other imported item, there really isnt much wrong with this because these are nickle and dime items...

It takes allot of "retail merchandise" to equal the value (lost or gained) of a vehicle..

Murphy

[solarchimesam]

I wonder since China ownes the USA National Debt and so does Japan. Is that from Americans buying import's?

[Klox]

It's interesting to read about the "fears" you Americans have about "made in the USA".
Here in South Africa we have more or less the same thing.... Our economy is very small in relation to your economy. Our markets gets flooded from goods produced in countries like China.
You will always get people that only price consentious and they are the ones buying cheap quality and low priced goods no matter if you in the US or in Europe.

The 3rd world countries (emerging economies) are cheaper on labour, but they do not have quality systems in place most of the times...

The global market is a place where competition are fierce and compition are not always fair....

[skippy]

Patrick (sbrpollock) I think you were replying to my post when you said : "I Don't Think This Problem Is Caused By The Government Or By The Business sector. Nor Can It Be Solved By The Government Or Business Sector. This Is The Fault Of The American Buying Public And No-One Elses. The American People Are Making Their Choices."

and just to clarify, I wasn't saying that it's the governments fault. Certainly it's 100% the fault of the consumers but most aren't going to pay more expensively for something that they're not even sure if (in your case) it's truely American made. They'll buy whatever suits their pocket. The people could act and not buy cheap imports but they're not going to so that only leaves the government and big business to do somethng about it.

Right at this moment, it I had the money I'd like to buy a cheap chinese mill but if tomorrow the government placed a 40% import protection tariff on chinese imports and I could no longer afford the mill would I complain? No, I would be 100% in favour of the move.

Lastly, I consider it ridiculous to blame unions or laziness for getting outdone by Chinese imports. You could get rid of all the unions, get the whole nation to work 80 hours a week, halve everyone's salary and you still wouldn't be able to compete with the $5/day nations. So what do you do? Either work for $5/day or protect yourselves?
Phil

[Klox]

You know what amazes me about you Americans? It's the loyalty you have towards yourself as a nation, the undaunting patriotism you have for the USA. That's why you have such a big economy, so much freedom of all kinds.....
If you can fend off these economic onslaught you'll stay on top!!!!

[skippy]

Klox, I agree with you 100% on the American's undaunting patriotism towards their country! Somewhere along the way, I lost most of the patriotism I had for my country. Perhaps part of it was when they stole the majority of my pension money.
Hey on another note you'll be proud to know that this place is full of digital message boards all made in RSA from a company who I think is called Digisoft
Phil

[Dan B]

What car does Canada make???

Hey guess what, we make more than one type of car here.

These are the ones that pop to mind:

Chrysler Pacifica
Chrysler Caravan
Chrysler Grand Caravan
Ford Grand Marquis
Ford Crown Victoria
Chrysler 300
Dodge Magnum
Dodge Charger
Honda Civic
Honda Accord
Honda Ridgeline
Some Jeep models
Chevy Tracker
I'm not sure what GM builds in Oshawa but I've driven by the factory, and it is huge.

There are more, but this is what I can think of right now. Maybe once the igloo warms up, and I have a drink of this brand new product called coffee I will think of more.

(Yes, that was sarcasm. We have that too.)

Dan

[Klox]

Yep sometimes i'm proud, most of the times i hang my head in shame. We are a country with such potential.....but nothing happens to the better. We have a government that's sympathetic to a dictator like Robert Mugabe from Zimbabwe (did you now Zimbabwe is an acronym?).

On the other hand my government preach their support of ownership not condemming while Robert Mugabe's regime going on implimenting his land grabbing policy.

Crime and corruption rule in my beautifull country while my government puts all thats to blame on the doorstep of first world countries. Be "gratefull" it's only your pension money your government took, in RSA it can be your life, it could easily be your wife's honor or even your daughter's honor as crime gets to the rich and the poor, black and white......

[Dan B]

Okay, here is what GM builds in Oshawa:

Impala
Monte Carlo
Buick Allure (Lacrosse in the US market)
Grand Am
Malibu

They used to build the Camaro and Firebird in Quebec.

Dan

[Klox]

Sorry Dan i have deviated a bit from the products orientation in this thread. If this post is too "harsh" the moderator may delete it if he wants....

Here is what i would like to say.....

I think I would like to add this onto my post to give you guys more perspective.
I can relate to the ordinary American guy’s fear that the American way of life is endangered by not buying “Made in the US”.

Hollywood is the propaganda tool of the US. Everyday you can go to a cinema, see an American produced film and sit back in awe about some story be it real or not playing out in the US.

People in a poverty stricken continent like Africa sees certain things on the silver screen and longs for being as wealthy or as successful as the characters people like Julia Roberts, Denzel Washington, Tom Cruise and Will Smith (to name a few) act out…….

So we can safely perceive that the US sets the standard today, it’s the nation that’s the bastion of the capitalistic world as we know it today.

In Africa most of the “democracies” still blame the colonial countries for everything that’s still wrong and goes wrong even if most of them got their independence from the colonial countries in the 1960's, wow nearly half century has gone by!

On the silver screen we so often hear in movies “all men are created equal”- the US constitution. In South Africa we have one of the most liberal constitutions in the world. If I have to rephrase my countries country’s constitution to be in parallel with the US constitution it would sound something like this: “All men are created equal, but the “previous disadvantaged”, the criminals, and the corrupt government officials are created more equal and therefore are above all laws and moral standards….”

I’m not saying that first world countries don’t have any problems and are supposed to be the mythical Utopias of the world. If African politicians cannot blame first world countries, who are they going to blame, Allah, Buddha, God or even ancestrial spirits depending on one’s religious background.

We live in an imperfect world, people do horrible things, nations do horrible things. I do not have answers to the concerned people that are participating in this thread. I do not point my finger to any human being while thinking that I could change the world for the “better”. As “better” could be better for me, but at the same time be badder for you…..

[Ken_Shea]

Lastly, I consider it ridiculous to blame unions or laziness for getting outdone by Chinese imports. You could get rid of all the unions, get the whole nation to work 80 hours a week, halve everyone's salary and you still wouldn't be able to compete with the $5/day nations. So what do you do? Either work for $5/day or protect yourselves?

If you don't like the way I laid the cards out Phil, you can lay them out any way you like, the fact still remains that the American worker and American consumer are primarily at fault here. We want more and more while giving and paying less and less and now all of us are paying the cost.

[sbrpollock]

Ken.....I Agree With You 100%.....I think we're both saying the same thing?

Phil.....I was not replying to your coment, I was just expressing some thoughts, nothing more.

Klox.....No.....We DO live in a perfect world.....The only thing on this planet that's not perfect is us.

I think this thread is fantastic. I hope it continues. I respect the opinions and am proud of how well behaved people are being in this thread. As far as staying on topic, I hope we give each other considerable leeway here.

I think it is great that the "Americans" can express their opinions and hear how some people outside our country feel about things. Klox: I hope you stick around, I'm listening.

[ynneb]

One of the things I like about CNC and other machinery is the fact that it is an alternative to payed labor. You dont have to pay a machine as much as a person to do a job.
While we are all feeing the pinch at the moment, I believe that the world wide winners will eventually be those who control the cheapest labor force.
Now that CNC and robotics is becoming more affordable to the little guy in society I think the tide will change and it will be people like us who will eventually become dominant players in the business world.
Maybe this is wishfull thinking, but this is where I am hedging my bet.

[sbrpollock]

Let me express "My" buying habits and see what you guys have to say.

When I go to the store to buy a "Widget", I find two widgets, one costs fifty dollars, and one costs thirty five dollars.

Now, the fifty dollar widget is produced in california. The plant that produces it goes to great extremes to provide a safe working environment for its work force, purifies its waste water and its smoke stack emmisions to protect the environment, pays for medical and dental coverage for its work force, provides retirement for its work force, and pays taxes that support its comunity, its state, and its country.

The thirty five dollar widget is produced in a country where there are no regulations to protect the work force or the environment, and medical coverage and retirement are unheard-of.

I try not ot be short-sighted when I spend money. If I know that by buying a product I am helping to put braces on someones kid, or helping to pay for someone to get tratment for an illness, that is where I will spend my money. Even if it COSTS MORE.

I think that the mistake that both the American workers and consumers make is that when they make comparisons, they only compare what's immediatly in front of them, and only in the short term.

Now.....I would be more than happy to apply this same standrd to the "Global Economy" and buy items from overseas using the same criteria. In other words is the money I am about to spend going to protect the environment and the work force where it is made? Even if that is half way around the world?

Or am I about to buy a product that was produced in deplorable conditions by a company that is raping its work force and raping the environment?

I'm not against trade. But, even if we do trade, we still have to be conscientious about what our money buys.

[Bloy2004]

Let me express "My" buying habits and see what you guys have to say.


Or am I about to buy a product that was produced in deplorable conditions by a company that is raping its work force and raping the environment?

I'm not against trade. But, even if we do trade, we still have to be conscientious about what our money buys.

But what will happen to all those people if we don't buy their products....no work at all...
At least we will be helping those populations that are striving to equality.

We've got it so good here and don't realize how we (ancestors) plowed our way through America using cheap "slaves" to make it so.

Some day we will evolve in our thinking to a rationalization that the condition of our neighbors...whether they be only inches from our holdings or thousands of miles away...reflects directly back on us. Competition is good but like anything else is subject to corruption when greed prevails. We can't just take care of ourselves and forget the rest.

[Bloy2004]

...and what about other jobs...sailors...dock workers...management personel... ship builders...etc etc. the shipping industry is huge...so many jobs would be eliminated if we bought only from ourselves.