[Geof]

Geof,

I don't like smileys, so the comment was meant to be humorously self-deprecating, an attempt that obviously missed the mark. Was it necessary to jump at the chance to be condescending?

Or did you intend your original statement to literally mean, "nothing can be proven in science"?

--97T--

Since you seem to take my comments absolutely literally I think it is not reasonable to take exception if I respond in kind. And I never jump at a chance to be condescending; they occur so frequently I only need to stroll around.

But I realise you do have a point; my statement; "nothing can be proven in science"? is not totally accurate and I did contradict myself when I said that experiments could prove a hypothesis wrong. This is a proof of a disproof I suppose. Somewhat like Aristotle's (or Plato's, I forget which) all men are liars statement.

By the way fizzy I take as a compliment that the only things you have taken exception to (so far) in my 'history' are two points which do not appreciably detract from my message that climate change has been and is occurring and that ascribing it solely to anthropogenic greenhouses gases is not completely accurate. Keep trying, you are still amusing.

[fizzissist]

By the way fizzy I take as a compliment that the only things you have taken exception to (so far) in my 'history' are two points which do not appreciably detract from my message that climate change has been and is occurring and that ascribing it solely to anthropogenic greenhouses gases is not completely accurate. Keep trying, you are still amusing.

At least we're on the same page on the AGW issue, and at least we're still amusing each other.

[Geof]

At least we're on the same page on the AGW issue, and at least we're still amusing each other.

At last!!!! Now maybe you will stop trying to convert me. Not that it makes a d******d bit of difference which side we are on. Do you seriously think anyone is going to stop the juggernaut. Re-read my last paragraph: If there is any credence to be put in the sunspot/cosmic ray stuff, and I think there is, there is a good chance global temperature change may reverse in the next decade or two. If carbon emission controls are put in place I defy anyone to convince the envirofreaks that it was a natural change; they will prattle on about how successful their efforts are and redouble them with virtue. If sunspot activity does go down and there is not a corresponding levelling out or decline in global temperature then society is in deep doo doo because this could imply human activity has thrown a real spanner in the works.

[pfarber]

I am a layman and don't care to get into the nitty gritty of citing papers...

Scientists will 'prove' whatever gets them funding.

Right now Global Warming is in the, at best, hypothetical stage as no one has proven it. Saying that the temp is trending up is an observation. Saying that cars emit CO2 which blah blah blah is a nice lab test, I'm sure I can breath into a beaker and increase the co2 levels.... should we all stop breathing?

Didn't scientists say that the ozone layer was gonna erode away? And that man was to blame? And we all were gonna die from increased skin cancer?

Replace ozone with global warming and a new round of money grabbing has begun!

If CO2 emissions are to blame then we should stop planting trees and clear cut whatever forests are left because plants are the NUMBER ONE producer of co2, not man.

What will Al Gore and the ecofreaks go after next? SO far they got the Ozone Layer and Global Warming wrong.

[rancherbill]

Geoff

It is time for you to leave.

Fizzissist and Niner7Tango are Internet Trolls.

In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who enters an established community such as an online discussion forum and intentionally tries to cause disruption, often in the form of posting messages that are inflammatory, insulting, incorrect, inaccurate, absurd, or off-topic, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

Check out all the threads in the global warming area and you'll find they come out with the same contrarian argumentative bullying BS in all the threads. They stifle all intelligent discussion of the topic. When they become involved the thread dies or goes off topic.

I am very sad to had to say this as you have spent a great deal of thought and time on your initial post and subsequent posts.

[Rekd]

Geoff

It is time for you to leave.

Fizzissist and Niner7Tango are Internet Trolls.

In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who enters an established community such as an online discussion forum and intentionally tries to cause disruption, often in the form of posting messages that are inflammatory, insulting, incorrect, inaccurate, absurd, or off-topic, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

Check out all the threads in the global warming area and you'll find they come out with the same contrarian argumentative bullying BS in all the threads. They stifle all intelligent discussion of the topic. When they become involved the thread dies or goes off topic.

I am very sad to had to say this as you have spent a great deal of thought and time on your initial post and subsequent posts.

Go back and re-read their posts. While they do play around, a lot, they also make very good points. In fact, I'd say they've brought more usable information to these discussions than most people including YOU.

Besides, it's not up to you to decide who stays and who goes.

[rancherbill]

Go back and re-read their posts. While they do play around, a lot, they also make very good points. In fact, I'd say they've brought more usable information to these discussions than most people including YOU.

Besides, it's not up to you to decide who stays and who goes.

I reread their posts prior to posting my message. I stand by my statement that they are interent trolls.

On my initial statement of leaving, you are right. I was not as clear as I should have been. I was not implying that he should be banned or whatever.

I was recommending that he consider not posting to this thread. He has spent a great deal of time and thought expressing his opinion.

These two posters spend a great deal of time to attacking the individaul that opposes their philosophy. Once these two become involved in a thread, posts by others trail off to very low levels. I would expect these interesting topics to continue, not to fizzle.

Useable Information ????

In my mind there are three type of scientists - Hard Scientists, Observers and Literature Surveyors.

Hard scientists conduct experiments that are controlled. They have told us the chemistry and physics involved in global warming. Greenhouse gases increases the temperature of the earth and that there are no other chemical or physics effects that might conteract warming from increased greenhouse gases. These facts are FACTS.

Observers look for evidence to support their hypothesis. Some times they are right and and they can be wrong. Starting from the concept that the hard scientists are correct then a great number, perhaps most, of these observers are right when they say that they can see the effects of global warming.

Literature Surveyors are just readers of the work of the previous two groups of scientist and they pick and choose the data to support whatever they are trying to prove.

These two posters are literature surveyors, they pick and choose what they want. They are not qualified to make any hard science statements. To make hard science statements they would have to have post doc qualifications in a relevant area and be working in the field at the cutting edge. Given this is a maching BBS is suspect they are at the cutting edge of an end mill. The people who have the qualifications make their statements in journals and conferences etc. The hard scientists are in agreement global warming is happening.

I do not post links to information that I have found. I do not have the professional quaifications to evaluate whether the information is valid or relevant and whether the source is a good source.

As an example when I was researching a different topic I found this site

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/FlatHome.htm

but, I was always hesitant to post some of the articles and info - it just didn't seem right.

[fizzissist]

I reread their posts prior to posting my message. I stand by my statement that they are interent trolls.........

As an example when I was researching a different topic I found this site

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/FlatHome.htm

but, I was always hesitant to post some of the articles and info - it just didn't seem right.

Ok, I'm still an "interent" troll......
Love the Flat Earth link you posted!! Is that supposed to prove your point or are you simply showing us you're a member?

So, you say you don't have the qualifications to evaluate the science, you say that neither 97T or myself have the qualifications....but Al Gore does??

You come in here with phasers on heavy stun, but where's the rational discussion that provides ANY scientific rebuttal?

And btw, I could post stuff from Gavin Schmidt and James Hansen and Michael Mann and Richard Alley (whoops...I think I did already) and Heidi Cullen (self-proclaimed "climate expert") and on, and on, and on.....but having read their work and opinions, I opt to post that science which I believe is MORE ACCURATE OR REPRESENTIVE of the reality of climate.

I post the "contrarian" views because I presume people like you have already bought into the other side of the argument because ...... drum roll...... you've read their work??? Right??? You've at least read some of the TAR, right?

[Geof]

Geoff
It is time for you to leave.
Fizzissist and Niner7Tango are Internet Trolls.
In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who enters an established community such as an online discussion forum and intentionally tries to cause disruption, often in the form of posting messages that are inflammatory, insulting, incorrect, inaccurate, absurd, or off-topic, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
Check out all the threads in the global warming area and you'll find they come out with the same contrarian argumentative bullying BS in all the threads. They stifle all intelligent discussion of the topic. When they become involved the thread dies or goes off topic.
I am very sad to had to say this as you have spent a great deal of thought and time on your initial post and subsequent posts.

I suppose I should say it before someone else does....by that definition I could be called a troll in some circumstances.

And I think the troll definition does not totally apply with regards to 'incorrect, inaccurate, absurd' but maybe some of the other perjoratives do apply, and to me also. Although I think a lot of people might want to include absurd in my case.

I do agree however, that often things drift or are pushed off topic but again I am also guilty of that.

Basically my philosophy is don't dish out anything you are not willing to accept.

EDIT:
From the tone of your post I get the suspicion you are one who believes in Anthropogenic Global Warming.

[fizzissist]

Geoff

It is time for you to leave.

Fizzissist and Niner7Tango are Internet Trolls.

[/FONT]Check out all the threads in the global warming area and you'll find they come out with the same contrarian argumentative bullying BS in all the threads. They stifle all intelligent discussion of the topic. When they become involved the thread dies or goes off topic.

I am very sad to had to say this as you have spent a great deal of thought and time on your initial post and subsequent posts.
[/SIZE][/FONT]

Care to back up your claim with some specifics?

Contrarian? Uh, as opposed to, uh, LEMMING???
Bullying? You mean, like, calling people contrarians or telling people it's time to leave a forum that doesn't belong to you? If I'm asked to leave by those that OWN this forum, I'll gladly do so.

BS??? For example? You'd care to provide some actual proof that what I've posted is not scientifically sound?

No, Rancherbill, you'll resort to name calling (that's a reference to the troll statement) simply because you have.....well, nothing of substance.

[Geof]

Geoff

It is time for you to leave.

Fizzissist and Niner7Tango are Internet Trolls.

Obviously I am asleep. Or I was asleep; I just realised that Fizzisizt and Niner7Tango are accused of being Internet Trolls but I am the one told to leave?????

Now I have woken up I cannot for the life of me understand the logic behind this.

[rancherbill]

Obviously I am asleep. Or I was asleep; I just realised that Fizzisizt and Niner7Tango are accused of being Internet Trolls but I am the one told to leave?????

Now I have woken up I cannot for the life of me understand the logic behind this.

My Apologies

What I meant to say is that it was time to consider not continuing to post to this thread. You spent a great deal of time and effort in your posts and these guys are hijacking your intelligent thread.

The free exchange of ideas is not happening. Your discussion has not progressed. It has degenerated to where you have to defend yourself phrase by phrase, typo by typo.

Look at the string of posts and compare them to the original post and see where it has gone.