[toranacar]

My other point about oil is, you may not know this but there is oil in Alaska believed to be bigger than the Middle East. And is worth about 1000 years. I do believe we should use it even up to its last drop, but preferably we invent new technologies before that happens, my point is there is no point in stopping the use of oil just because "one day" it will run out. Oil allows us to run industry to invent new technologies. Think of oil and coal as a stepping stone to a better future with better technologies not as a evil causing climate change because its simply not true

I wouldn't like to argue with you Torana as you have your own idea of why the Gov does what it does, but the products/inventions you quoted WERE ALL made totally with the useage of the cheap oil and coal derived energy sources, and in case you aren't aware of it, they are termed FINITE energy sources, IE, they will run out and anything that requires those energy sources as a cost factor just ain't gonna get made.

The problem lies in WHEN not if the World decides to get serious about the eventuality of an energy shortage......too late when the horse has bolted.

To exacerbate the energy consumption, consider the population boom presently going out of control due to "improved" longevity factors that extend the lifespan of the present generation by not having "indulged" in wholesale slaughter via World wars etc, and you get an exponential reduction in the available energy sources presently being mined and pumped.

So when do you think it would be a "good time" to consider it time to put in hand an energy supplementary program to offset the loss that will inevitably occur.

It is going to occur....just when, perhaps if'n you close your eyes it'll go away...LOL....(the energy source I mean).
Ian.

[OzyMark]

I think pondo was talking bout the libs in America.

[OzyMark]

I like your thinking toranaboy. Keep using the resources we have so that we may invest in future technologies to make sure our following generation can enjoy the freedom we have today.
The one big thing that needs to change, not so much in oz but in other countries is population growth. In 20 to 30 yrs there will not be enough fertile land to feed everyone on this planet. So if we develop bio fuel, it will need to grow somewhere. At the expense of food to feed a growing population?

I can't remember who said it but it went something along the lines of "He who controls the power, controls the world". So true. No wonder tesla came up to a brick wall when he managed to harness free energy. The alarm bells started ringing for all those who were going to loose a lot of money but more importantly control.

In order for us to move forward into a future tha governments of this world need to let loose all those brilliant scientist as they did early in the industrial age. We as people have progressed and innovated more in the last 100yrs then ever before. They fear loosing control that is why we will move forward at a snails pace until some of that control is relinquished.

My 2cents

[fizzissist]

The one big thing that needs to change, not so much in oz but in other countries is population growth.

So oz should get a free pass? A special exemption??

I can't remember who said it but it went something along the lines of "He who controls the power, controls the world".

I can't remember who said it but it went something along the lines of "What's good for the goose is good for the gander."

[OzyMark]

Hey fizzymist,

Our population is reducing in size as no one can afford to have any more kids. So we won't need any special treatment.

I guess in the states you manage population growth by having the bill of rights, in particular the one that's states you have a legal right to bear arms.

[petersenonmain]

Everyone should remember, as far as Libs and Labor are concerned CO2 control, education control, gun control, AGW control, or any of the other dogooder controls are about CONTROL AND POWER not about the good of the people.

[fizzissist]

Understandable that you don't understand U.S. Constitutional law, never mind our 2nd Amendment....but you're obviously either ignorant of, or lying about the Australian population.

Didn't take me but a minute or so to hit the Australian Bureau of Statistics to see how incorrect you are. Population increased about 6% between 2001 and 2006...and current estimates are roughly a 10% from 2006 to now.

Not just the population of Australia is increasing, but the RATE of the population increase is rising.

In other words, go pound sand.

[toranacar]

Ah yes my appologies

I think pondo was talking bout the libs in America.

[fizzissist]

(nuts)
From the Lucky-But-Not-Too-Bright Country.....

--It says it has been "directed by the Australian government to undertake a compliance and enforcement role in relation to claims made about the impact of a carbon price."

Businesses are not even allowed to throw special carbon tax sales promotions before the tax arrives on July 1.

"Beat the Carbon Tax - Buy Now" or "Buy now before the carbon tax bites" are sales pitches that are verboten. Or at least, as the ACCC puts it, "you should be very cautious about making these types of claims".

There will be 23 carbon cops roaming the streets doing snap audits of businesses that "choose to link your price increases to a carbon price".

The truth will out on Labor's carbon scam | thetelegraph.com.au

(wedge)

[fizzissist]

At least in the U.S., we'll have the ability to take back our gov't if things get that stupid because of our 2nd Amendment.

Unlike you hypocrites, we didn't have to bury our guns in all the large diameter PVC we could get our hands on after your knee-jerk Port Arthur laws got passed.
(bet you didn't know I knew about that)

[toranacar]

There are statistics floating around suggesting, and backed by Christopher Monkton, that richer nations have much more population growth stability than poorer nations.
And you could simply look at the pop growth of poor countries and compare to developed countries. So I don’t see this as big a prob as some may suggest, as long as we allow the developing countries to develop and democratize.
I would also say Australia has one of the most fertile and largest land in the world and we can feed the population explosion quite easily as long as there is political will, unfortunately our gov's see its ok for miners to dig and poison our farm lands. 80% of Queensland is now under exploration permit for coal seam gas and coal exploration where allot of this is on prime or next to prime farm land. This farm land is as good as finished. Not to mention the Murray Darling basin has draconian restrictions imposed by the fed gov. So we are not only quickly losing the ability to feed the pop explosion we are quickly losing the ability to feed ourselves. This is happening in secrecy and under our noses. Not to mention our food trade agreements which has severely compromised our fruit growers and farmers and eventually put them out of business due to cheaper inferior dangerous imports. But we may have to rely on China and other 3rd world countries to feed us, and I would say when this happens god help us all.

[OzyMark]

At least in the U.S., we'll have the ability to take back our gov't if things get that stupid because of our 2nd Amendment.

Unlike you hypocrites, we didn't have to bury our guns in all the large diameter PVC we could get our hands on after your knee-jerk Port Arthur laws got passed.
(bet you didn't know I knew about that)

Hey fizzy,

You are correct. Our population is increasing. If you look at the stats though, our government is actively reducing immigration to less than 180000 per annum. We had to increase our population to get jobs filled.

The port Arthur thing, good on you for your ability to use google. On the flip side I prefer that our gun laws are strict. I believe that it has decreased our fatality rate. I have seen though how many lives have been destroyed in your "gun loving culture". Over here I watch quite a few Yankee shows on the crime channel and I wouldn't be so proud of it. In saying that though I do take my hat of to you people for standing up for your rights and fighting for what you believe in. I wish that Aussies had more balls to stand up against the establishment in a united front which may have avoided this carbon tax which is a blatant money grab exercise.

I just want to ask you something. I live in a state capital city and in the worst suburbs I could still walk alone at night and feel safe. Can you do that in one of your state capitols?

[toranacar]

Good points.
How did you know? Was it a false flag operation?
Now we have all the criminals armed and the good people disarmed.
Now we have a break in by armed arsholes we have to fight them with bad language. Not a good way to win a fight. I would rather at least a 22 semi auto just in case I miss his arse.
5 Hail Mary’s and pass the ammo someone once said (something like that)

At least in the U.S., we'll have the ability to take back our gov't if things get that stupid because of our 2nd Amendment.

Unlike you hypocrites, we didn't have to bury our guns in all the large diameter PVC we could get our hands on after your knee-jerk Port Arthur laws got passed.
(bet you didn't know I knew about that)

[fizzissist]

As a 42yr old male, sure.
As a 22yr old female, don't think so.

I know all about your crime rates, having studied them quite well for previous verbal debates with a former high school mate that is now a gov't employee in Queensland who, it so happens, agrees with you.

You be happy with your gun laws, I'll be happy with mine. If you chose to ridicule me, I'll ridicule you.

Contrary to your national belief, you ain't perfect either.

[fizzissist]

http://joannenova.com.au/globalwarmi...ook_II-sml.pdf

[toranacar]

Intelligence has slowly been eroded for the last 30 years, any wonder so many people are being fooled by possibly the biggest worldwide scam that is "Climate change"
Jo Nova is great, saw her at a conference she used to be a left wing Greeny who later woke up and knows how the left work. She is worth gold
I urge everyone to have a look at this.
Galileo Movement

http://joannenova.com.au/globalwarmi...ook_II-sml.pdf

[toranacar]

Go ahead, make your carbon
Wind Power/Wind Turbine Generated Carbon Credits

[toranacar]

Listen and learn
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q20tn7BdlZs&feature=uploademail]Bjorn Lomborg on the Alan Jones show 16/Nov/2011 - YouTube[/ame]

[toranacar]

IPCC Leak
climate science

[handlewanker]

Gee, fellers, reading that Galileo Movement link sends a shiver down my hairy back.....if'n the top Cockies on the dung heap are covered in B/S, what hope for the mere mortals sampling the bottom droppings....it doesn't pay to make waves etc when the big boys are getting their hands dirty.

But there's light at the end of the tunnel.....who gives a sh!t about the cost of the Carbon Tax when the Government is going to reimburse us (over and slightly above the cost) so's we're not disadvantaged by the need to suscribe to the future of sustainable energy.

I personally think that if they take it out of the pocket of the manufacturers and stick it in my pocket, plus a bit more for luck, so be it....everybody's happy....the manufacturers will eventually increase their product cost to the user, they must, they'd be idiots not to, and the user will be paying the extra charges (for those products) with the reimbursement dollars the Gov has decided to give us....win win, not whinge whinge.....everybody is happy, and the Grandkids will get a Green energy future....what more can you possibly ask for?

I think the term Global Climate Change should be ignored and in it's place look for Sustainable Energy Future, and at the same time ignore the CO2 scare tactics and consider the fact that if'n you're so concerned at the rise in CO2, do ,something about it....grow some more grass or plant a few more trees on your property...that way you'll be putting your mind where your mouth is...never could work out what that meant....but in essence it probably means "don't tell me, show me", lead by example etc.

The Gov, whoever, (they do come and go with regular monotony), will no doubt anyway have to ensure that an alternatively viable energy source is available for the Plebs to attach their TV sets and EV's to, that way they can derive revenue on the accumulated Carbon Tax dollars, just like you and I put money in an investment account to make money from, but the difference is they will have billions stacked up in a Green account by the time the oil gets to rock bottom level, and with billions of buying power at their disposal, they will totally OWN the new energy sources they choose to have and make billions more selling it back to the Plebs.....who said the Gov were a bunch of idiots.

BTW, the present energy producer is coal, gas, oil and some hydro, and that is all private enterprise....but as the Carbon Tax dollars are tax derived, it belongs to the Federal Reserve in their Carbon Tax account, and you can't get more State owned than that when you are plugging into a state owned energy source.

As the private sector is so dead against anything remotely resembling Green initiatives, they will hang on to the bitter end until the last drop of oil and lump of coal has gone, and so lacking the stored finance or means to fund it, will not play a part in any future sustainable energy program that has to happen.

I would go on to say that while the private sector presently is messing about with inferior energy methods while other superior energy methods exist, they can not hope to compete on a level playing field, and will dissipate their energy in the long run.

Some "along the way" Government participation in alternative energy production is a must, as it takes trial and error to decide on which path to pursue.
Ian.