[Jimmy007]

Can you post the CE certificate?

Last time I enquired I was told that the mchines hadn't been certified.

Might be that the factory new people are suggesting to their freinds in china that the agent rights aren't worth much if the manufacturer chooses to deal directly in their patch..... Knowing the Chinese if you persist they will supply you on the basis you don't tell the local agent.

You will want to hope that they offer to provide warranty assistance, the machine will likely end up costing you more in the long run otherwise.

[Big S]

G`day Shannon, You want to kick me?
I totally forgot to get those measurements for you! It is a holiday on monday for us so i will take them on tuesday morning and email them to you.
Your machine must be due to arrive very soon now. Getting excited?

Rocket.

HA, no worries, My machine should be shipping in the next few days, hopefully the shipping company has their stuff together and its comes straight here.

Shannon.

[cabnet636]

you will see a change in the availibility and make up of the dealer control of the sh-cnc machine in the us, more on this later

jim

[eadya]

eadya: where abouts in the UK are you based?

In the south near Southampton

[eadya]

G`day Eadya and C Geldmacher - Welcome aboard. Glad that you joined us.
We have had our Excitech Router now for just over one month and we are absolutely thrilled to bits with it. These machines are extreme value for money and are quite easy to operate.
We purchased V Carve Pro software late last year. This is fantastic software at a bargain price.
It is a relatively simple process to design our patterns using V Carve Pro and then downloading to the supplied usb stick. The usb stick fits into the DSP controller which in turn interprets the program and operates the machine. Too easy.
We have not even used the supplied Type3 or Ucancam software.
A couple of very minor issues that we have had are -
1) The adjustable feet on the base had worked loose during shipping and this resulted in the threads being damaged .
2) The connection on the control box for the DSP cord is a bad fit so we had to secure the connection to make sure that it cannot be dislodged.
3) The vacuum table top has a dip on one end that we believe was caused by the vacuum pump sitting on top of the table during shipping. The pump is extremely heavy. The dip is about 2mm and we are waiting for a spoilboard bit so that we can surface our spoil board flat and overcome the problem.
For the price that we paid for the machine these minor issues do not concern us.
At this moment we are waiting for a set of "replaceable insert bits" that have been made specifically for the patterns that we use for our doors.
They were supposed to have arrived yesterday. Unreliable suppliers! Seems to be normal since xmas.
So what do we think of our Excitech - FANBLOODYTASTIC!!!

Rocket.

Hi Thank for the update our machine is still on a ship from China, which model of vacuum pump did you get?

Abdrew

[Jimmy007]

The chinese machines have come a long way in a short time- they weren't quite crippled by cheap plastic gears and other issues to the extend suggested earlier in the thread (won't relive the carvin saga for those who missed it) but they have improved monumentally in recent times. Those who own them know that the price differential between big names and these is outrages. Certainly plenty of room to move, add a distributor margin healthy enough to provide for local support and service and everyone still wins.

you will see a change in the availibility and make up of the dealer control of the sh-cnc machine in the us, more on this later

jim

[rocket67]

Hi Thank for the update our machine is still on a ship from China, which model of vacuum pump did you get?

Abdrew

Hi Andrew, we bought the becker pump. Not sure of model - but i can check on tuesday and post details then.
I can say that it operates flawlessly. The most important aspect of vacuum is to have a good seal around the edge of your spoilboard.
If you bought the 1530 machine order an MDF board big enough to make it cover the table in one piece. Our first attempt was 3 pieces of board but we could not get a decent seal. The one piece board made all the difference. Also get a spoilboard bit and machine a couple of mm off the spoilboard to ensure that you have a flat surface. If you do not do this the results will not be good in that the routered surface will not be a consistent depth.
Also important to have your electrician do your wiring correctly. You will need two 3 phase outlets - one for the machine and one for the pump.If you check back in this thread to mid january posts you will see one from Jimmy 007 who is our resident electronics guru. Jimmy explains in detail the exact requirements. The two outlets are wired up differently and you must be precise with each one. We ran into trouble with our initial startup of our machine because we plugged it into the wrong outlet. In addition, the breaker needs to be about 40 amps for initial machine startup. It draws a lot of power when it starts up and then drops back. I do not understand electronics so maybe Jimmy can advise you further on this.

Then there is the dust extractor. If you ordered yours from sh-cnc then it is also three phase.
Hope this will assist you to get up and running.

Rocket.

[rocket67]

The chinese machines have come a long way in a short time- they weren't quite crippled by cheap plastic gears and other issues to the extend suggested earlier in the thread (won't relive the carvin saga for those who missed it) but they have improved monumentally in recent times. Those who own them know that the price differential between big names and these is outrages. Certainly plenty of room to move, add a distributor margin healthy enough to provide for local support and service and everyone still wins.

G`day Jimmy, good to see you back.
The New Zealand distributor IMO has put a very heavy margin onto his machines. I was horrified to see his prices. In our case we would have bought the Techno machine instead if we had to pay his price.
Would sure be good to see a distributor in Australia ( maybe based in Sydney ) who would provide service and have a more realistic margin.
How did you get on with your mach3 conversion? I am going to the Melbourne cnc router convention/bbq in may to meet the cnc crew over there and also to check out the mach3 setup. Have you considered going?
Details are in the Aust/New Zealand clubhouse section.

Rocket.

[Jimmy007]

Reckon I'll be there if I can work it in- sounds great.

Up to him what he charges- he may be polishing his rocket though. Anyone with an unrealistic markup and no machine in stock (or parts to service same) for you to look at might find it hard to justify the value in the asking price.

Mach 3 hasn't progressed as planned- I haven't been able to get to it yet. Doing a lot of routing though. DSP hasn't let me down- I'm starting to get quite fond of her in a strange sort of way

G`day Jimmy, good to see you back.
The New Zealand distributor IMO has put a very heavy margin onto his machines. I was horrified to see his prices. In our case we would have bought the Techno machine instead if we had to pay his price.
Would sure be good to see a distributor in Australia ( maybe based in Sydney ) who would provide service and have a more realistic margin.
How did you get on with your mach3 conversion? I am going to the Melbourne cnc router convention/bbq in may to meet the cnc crew over there and also to check out the mach3 setup. Have you considered going?
Details are in the Aust/New Zealand clubhouse section.

Rocket.

[Big S]

G`day Jimmy, good to see you back.
The New Zealand distributor IMO has put a very heavy margin onto his machines. I was horrified to see his prices. In our case we would have bought the Techno machine instead if we had to pay his price.

Rocket.

I was quoted around NZD$50K for a machine similar to the one I have on the way, only it didn't have a tool change spindle either. I am looking at around NZD$30k once the machine is in my workshop. There is a big difference.

Shannon.

[rocket67]

I was quoted around NZD$50K for a machine similar to the one I have on the way, only it didn't have a tool change spindle either. I am looking at around NZD$30k once the machine is in my workshop. There is a big difference.

Shannon.

Old saying - It is only the profit that makes things expensive.

Rocket.(nuts)

[BC-CNC]

Might be that the factory new people are suggesting to their freinds in china that the agent rights aren't worth much if the manufacturer chooses to deal directly in their patch..... Knowing the Chinese if you persist they will supply you on the basis you don't tell the local agent.

You will want to hope that they offer to provide warranty assistance, the machine will likely end up costing you more in the long run otherwise.

I live in a town of 2000 people, where there are about 80k people with-in a 100km radius. Shopping locally is always encouraged and as a local business owner I try and support as many other local business owners as possible. In my opinion this is not possible when:

1. Local suppliers product knowledge is less than what I can achieve spending a few hours on the net reading forums such as this or manufacturers websites.

2. The local pricing varies by more than 10-15% of cost in major urban center or from online merchants.

3. Customer service is marginal at best, your business is expected because of their "where else around here are you going to be able to get this" mentality. A lot of local businesses still think too locally, and haven't realized that we live and function in a global market place, where distributors and store fronts are becoming a thing of the past. I am not saying that eliminating distributors is good or bad, but is is reality as more manufacturers sell directly.

It is a little ironic when CNC distributors are complaining about being side-stepped by manufacturers who sell directly because of the loss of jobs, etc, when they are selling a product that completely does the same. A CNC does a better job for less money, in a lot of cases manufacturers do a better job of sales for a lot less money too.

This can be argued all day, several different ways, we could bring in economists to debate it, but the fact remains, with the advent of globalization and internet usage increasing in developing countries, distributors need to rethink their place in the supply chain. Small third world and developing manufacturers are now able to deal directly with end users and realize greater control and greater profits.

I was a purchasing agent for 10 years for two different electrical contractors. As a purchaser the thing you are looking for is Value. The initial price is just one part of that value, other things to be considered include, meeting primary and secondary needs, quality, before and after sales service, availability, future costs, maintenance, etc.

When I started looking for a CNC I was concerned about all of these things. I was looking for a tool that would meet my initial needs, but not restrict me if and when my business products changed. I was concerned about quality, reliability, ease of use, availability and finally what all those where going to cost me. I actually first researched what I wanted, then who made the best bearings, guide rails, spindles, vacuum pumps, controllers, etc. Once I knew what I needed the machine to do, what size I needed it to be, then I compared several manufacturers products offering to see what components they used, how they put them together, and then went looking for sites such as this where I could read real peoples reviews, thoughts, comments, etc. Finally I received quotes from several companies (both local and abroad), lots actually, so that I could finally compare each machine based on price. I even went and got quotes for major components from local distributors. I have always found it is better to analyze what you want/need, conduct research and have an idea of the perfect machine before you even think about pricing.

With all this information I sat down and compiled everything. The Excitech machines included a lot of the top name components and seem to be excellent value for the money. Whenever I received a quote for a similar machine, all they did was reinforce the value in the Excitech. Strengths include, top notch components, great customer service, good reviews, cheap freight and finally good pricing. My only concern with the machine is getting it set-up and figuring out the controller. If your someone who is able to and enjoys figuring things out, then I am sure it won't be a problem, I also have several Chinese friends who can help translate if need be. My contingency if all else fails, is to fly out a tech from Excitech for a few days, for which there is plenty of room for with-in their pricing. As far as warranty goes, all major components are available in Canada with service centers for them scattered across the country.

In deciding what machine to buy, each of you has to reach the same conclusion on your own, define your own needs, research what components you think are best and then get quotes on tools that meet your criteria. You may end up deciding on a different machine and that is great because it will ensure other manufacturers stay in business and provide competition, as that is what guarantees all of us the best value in the end.

It is no wonder that Canada and the US cannot make a machine that rivals the Excitech for the same money when you look at something as basic as the Becker pump. Excitech quote was just under 6k for the VTLF250, the same pump was 10k through the Canadian distributor. If Canadian manufacturers have to forward the Becker distributors profit margin onto the end user, then their CNC will already be 40% higher, before having to include a premium for union wages to assemble the whole thing.

If importers who are bringing in these machines, charged a 15 or 20% mark-up on their actual costs, they would be competitive. Unfortunately they charge what the market will bear by comparing the quality of the Excitech to US manufactured alternatives and pricing the Excitech slightly below the US alternatives to stay competative and provide larger margins.

While this business models works well by providing value over the US alternatives, they will find their competitive advantage is only secure as long as the general population is afraid of transferring 30k to a Chinese bank account. For the people like myself that are fine with it, we will look to China for our machines.

We are even buying our edgebander from China because it is a third to a quarter of the cost of a comparative US/Italian/Eastern European made model and still half of the cost of the Canadian distributor who is importing them. If I can find a 220V 10Hp air compressor, it will be in my shipping container too.

Spencer.

[Jimmy007]

You mentioned somewhere around chapter 9 in your novel that the DSP may be a concern to get on top of- have no fear, plenty of us here will help you out. A little quirky at first but rock solid reliable!

Agree entirely (think we all do) that some local agents may be going for the big ream job with pricing. 15% margin probably a little low though to cover warranty, support and overheads.

Get in now while you can bypass a distributor (exitech price increase on the way given USD movements). You wont regret it.

[BC-CNC]

You mentioned somewhere around chapter 9 in your novel that the DSP may be a concern to get on top of- have no fear, plenty of us here will help you out. A little quirky at first but rock solid reliable!

Agree entirely (think we all do) that some local agents may be going for the big ream job with pricing. 15% margin probably a little low though to cover warranty, support and overheads.

Get in now while you can bypass a distributor (exitech price increase on the way given USD movements). You wont regret it.

Thanks for the offer of help to get the DSP set up. We will definitely be submitting a few posts. Our machine has the Syntec controlling system, which I think will be the first on this forum, Taney assures me it is a better system than the DSP?? We'll soon see.

Sorry about the novel, just wanted to get my point across, thought it might help someone going through the purchasing process.

I include the costs for warranty, support and overhead before I calculate my profit, hopefully distributors do too, or they won't be around long.

Thanks,

Spencer.

[cabnet636]

the company i purchased my machine from sold the "excitech machines"
here in the south east, the first machine i saw when i asked for a reference was just a few miles away from me in camden sc, i was so impressed with the relationship between the cabinetmaker and camaster i bought one of their machines built in the us, most all of the sh-cnc machines will be controlled by one us distributor soon, the original take off by the chinese was a camtech machine ( http://www.camtech.ca/products/route...Z7Overview.cfm ) notice the similarities!!

the chinese copied this router and the first ones to come here were not painted on the underside, rusty and had bad wiring problems, this has changed, now with a small bit of understanding of basic electronics these machines are widely, excepted i have no doubt that with some of the relationships and info on this forum you will not be flying any techs in!!

it's not that difficult!!! motors and replacement parts are readily available.
the controller you mentioned has yet to be reviewed here, i am very pleased with my wincnc and my camaster i have ordered a second one, i like you recieved many (lots) of quotes while i was in the initial research of this.

theres a lot of voodoo in the machine business, i am soo grateful i found this forum and with it i have gone from basically convinced i would never have cnc in my shop to where i can replace parts and trouble shoot my machine with the camaster techs over the phone, i can see where a lot of hand holding is neccessary for many in cnc, i have a feeling from your post it will be a good experience for you

jim mcgrew
www.mcgrewwoodwork.com

[Jimmy007]

G'day Spencer,

Nothing serious in the 'novel' comment mate- was just taking the piss.

I enjoyed the read.

Do you have any doco on the syntec system? I would certainly be interested in having a look at it.

I'm sure Taney will happily forward it to you in advance as a zip file.

Cheers,

Jimmy

Thanks for the offer of help to get the DSP set up. We will definitely be submitting a few posts. Our machine has the Syntec controlling system, which I think will be the first on this forum, Taney assures me it is a better system than the DSP?? We'll soon see.

Sorry about the novel, just wanted to get my point across, thought it might help someone going through the purchasing process.

I include the costs for warranty, support and overhead before I calculate my profit, hopefully distributors do too, or they won't be around long.

Thanks,

Spencer.

[maxmachine]

the company i purchased my machine from sold the "excitech machines"
here in the south east, the first machine i saw when i asked for a reference was just a few miles away from me in camden sc, i was so impressed with the relationship between the cabinetmaker and camaster i bought one of their machines built in the us,

most all of the sh-cnc machines will be controlled by one us distributor soon,



the original take off by the chinese was a camtech machine ( http://www.camtech.ca/products/route...Z7Overview.cfm ) notice the similarities!!

the chinese copied this router and the first ones to come here were not painted on the underside, rusty and had bad wiring problems, this has changed, now with a small bit of understanding of basic electronics these machines are widely, excepted i have no doubt that with some of the relationships and info on this forum you will not be flying any techs in!!

it's not that difficult!!! motors and replacement parts are readily available.
the controller you mentioned has yet to be reviewed here, i am very pleased with my wincnc and my camaster i have ordered a second one, i like you recieved many (lots) of quotes while i was in the initial research of this.

theres a lot of voodoo in the machine business, i am soo grateful i found this forum and with it i have gone from basically convinced i would never have cnc in my shop to where i can replace parts and trouble shoot my machine with the camaster techs over the phone, i can see where a lot of hand holding is neccessary for many in cnc, i have a feeling from your post it will be a good experience for you

jim mcgrew
www.mcgrewwoodwork.com

Jim... are you referring to David Slowinsky at TigerTec? If not, who? He has done a good job for me.

Mark

[cabnet636]

if i was to buy an excitech machine in the US there are three i hold in high respect david slowinsky "tiger tech", bill glenn "camaster" and there is a dealer for david's machine
in i believe arizona, david is well known as a stand up guy when it comes to these routers, now that (factory new) "camwood" is involved there will only be price increase's, bill will be displaying a machine at fredricsburg VA. this weekend and with the progress he has made from listening to our suggestions
i believe we are about to see a real competitive machine come out of camaster

[cabnet636]

to answer your question i believe eventually camwood will go directly to the chinese

david is one of the few who will put his own numbers on a website for support , that kind of true support will never be matched by a large company. lets face it david is the man when it comes to these routers in the us,
and is the only company i found importing the sh-cnc "excitech" machine,
with the exception of the new hampshie ebay scams

http://www.tigertec.us/special.html
http://www.tigertec.us/

[cabnet636]

of the camwood maybe a little price increase wont be such a bad idea if the support is there, and from the responses i have seen on woodweb from camwood they are extremely sincere in their offering

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luJJ-smU2sk&feature=related"]YouTube - Step 9 - Vacuum Grid Board[/ame]